224 posts
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Post by Peter on May 11, 2023 16:02:33 GMT
Im fairly sure that the original London production of Whistle Down the Wind made it into the black before it closed (though was certainly not a money making blockbuster, and doesn’t account for the original American production, which would have been capitalised separately).
I love By Jeeves - it does exactly what it says on the tin and does it well, though a lot of that is thanks to Ayckbourn’s (revised) book. It’s also a rare ALW show that I would have expect to be popular with amateur companies (and make money through post-original run licensing), but I don’t see it done that much?
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7,251 posts
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Post by Jon on May 11, 2023 18:58:01 GMT
I think for ALW to have another successful show, he needs to take a backseat. Focus on the music and have producers who are willing to say no or veto him.
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1,579 posts
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Post by showtoones on May 11, 2023 19:10:38 GMT
I think for ALW to have another successful show, he needs to take a backseat. Focus on the music and have producers who are willing to say no or veto him. And not have Lawrence O'Connor direct it. |
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Post by danb on May 11, 2023 19:29:29 GMT
I think for ALW to have another successful show, he needs to take a backseat. Focus on the music and have producers who are willing to say no or veto him. And not have Lawrence O'Connor direct it. ‘Direct’ is a bit strong isn’t it? ‘Stage’ perhaps? Block? Arrange on the stage? ‘Organise’ seems the most apt description. Fine for an arena tour of ‘JCS’ and the required broad strokes; not so great for anything requiring actual performances or depth. |
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7,251 posts
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Post by Jon on May 11, 2023 19:55:33 GMT
Laurence Connor is either cheap, a pushover or both. Why else would he be hired by ALW, Cameron Mackintosh and Tim Rice?
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636 posts
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Post by chernjam on May 12, 2023 1:04:47 GMT
Interesting reading people's lists of Hits and Misses. Some of the confusion between the lists is that a hit like Aspects was in the West End was a miss in NY. The other difficulty is that he's compared against himself. He's got two of the longest running musicals in theatre history in Phantom and Cats, so anything that runs less than those is seen as "not as successful as ---" which other composers don't have to deal with. And lets remember he's also been actively writing for over 5 decades now. Lin Manuel Miranda (Hamilton) and Adam Guettel (Light in the Piazza) have had major successes but haven't written nearly as prolifically as ALW has been. (spare me the "maybe he shouldn't write so much" snarks. When you're a multi-millionaire as a result of your creativity, obviously the man is doing a lot more right than wrong)
As for the next musical - I'm curious about what subject he was interested in doing before Cinderella was announced that he was looking to secure the rights for. The story of Master and Margarita (long abandoned) has seemed intriguing too. I find his more serious topics bring out more interesting compositions, so that would be my vote.
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Post by sukhavati on May 12, 2023 3:20:56 GMT
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135 posts
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Post by magnificentdonkey on May 12, 2023 15:26:53 GMT
As for the next musical - I'm curious about what subject he was interested in doing before Cinderella was announced that he was looking to secure the rights for. The story of Master and Margarita (long abandoned) has seemed intriguing too. I find his more serious topics bring out more interesting compositions, so that would be my vote. That's funny, because the subplot of this story is literally the events depicted in JCS (only interpreted differently), involving the characters of Pilate, Jesus, Judas and Caifás. The novel's plot revolves around the Master's decision to create a novel about Pontius Pilate in the atheistic Soviet Union. The novel's chapter two is basically 'Pilate and Christ' from JCS as Bulgakov envisioned it. There's this 'a novel within a novel' thing where Bulgakov incorporates a few chapters from the Master's novel (obviously also written by Bulgakov) about Pontius Pilate into the main body of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel. I hope this makes sense. And the Master's novel about Pontius Pilate is basically JCS all over again. And at the end of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel the Master meets the character he's written about, i. e. Pilate and Christ, although they don't see him, because they are just the characters in his imagination (of which they are totally unaware), but he sees them and he is to resolve Pilate's (i. e. his protagonist's) fate. The Master shouts out 'Forgiven!' and that does it. Pilate is forgiven and reunites with Jesus for eternity. |
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Post by singingbird on May 12, 2023 21:51:48 GMT
As for the next musical - I'm curious about what subject he was interested in doing before Cinderella was announced that he was looking to secure the rights for. The story of Master and Margarita (long abandoned) has seemed intriguing too. I find his more serious topics bring out more interesting compositions, so that would be my vote. That's funny, because the subplot of this story is literally the events depicted in JCS (only interpreted differently), involving the characters of Pilate, Jesus, Judas and Caifás. The novel's plot revolves around the Master's decision to create a novel about Pontius Pilate in the atheistic Soviet Union. The novel's chapter two is basically 'Pilate and Christ' from JCS as Bulgakov envisioned it. There's this 'a novel within a novel' thing where Bulgakov incorporates a few chapters from the Master's novel (obviously also written by Bulgakov) about Pontius Pilate into the main body of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel. I hope this makes sense. And the Master's novel about Pontius Pilate is basically JCS all over again. And at the end of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel the Master meets the character he's written about, i. e. Pilate and Christ, although they don't see him, because they are just the characters in his imagination (of which they are totally unaware), but he sees them and he is to resolve Pilate's (i. e. his protagonist's) fate. The Master shouts out 'Forgiven!' and that does it. Pilate is forgiven and reunites with Jesus for eternity. See, this is exactly the kind of show he should be writing! Provocative, intelligent and unusual. |
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Post by MusicalTalk on May 13, 2023 11:38:37 GMT
He should release the musical he wrote when he was 13: "Cinderella up the Beanstalk".
Can't be any worse than Bad Cinderella.
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643 posts
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Post by AddisonMizner on May 13, 2023 17:38:57 GMT
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1,484 posts
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Post by steve10086 on May 13, 2023 18:47:54 GMT
As for the next musical - I'm curious about what subject he was interested in doing before Cinderella was announced that he was looking to secure the rights for. The story of Master and Margarita (long abandoned) has seemed intriguing too. I find his more serious topics bring out more interesting compositions, so that would be my vote. That's funny, because the subplot of this story is literally the events depicted in JCS (only interpreted differently), involving the characters of Pilate, Jesus, Judas and Caifás. The novel's plot revolves around the Master's decision to create a novel about Pontius Pilate in the atheistic Soviet Union. The novel's chapter two is basically 'Pilate and Christ' from JCS as Bulgakov envisioned it. There's this 'a novel within a novel' thing where Bulgakov incorporates a few chapters from the Master's novel (obviously also written by Bulgakov) about Pontius Pilate into the main body of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel. I hope this makes sense. And the Master's novel about Pontius Pilate is basically JCS all over again. And at the end of the 'The Master and Margarita' novel the Master meets the character he's written about, i. e. Pilate and Christ, although they don't see him, because they are just the characters in his imagination (of which they are totally unaware), but he sees them and he is to resolve Pilate's (i. e. his protagonist's) fate. The Master shouts out 'Forgiven!' and that does it. Pilate is forgiven and reunites with Jesus for eternity. That sounds quite cool, and could contain snippets of JCS in a kind of sequel, but with a better plot than his last sequel attempt. |
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Post by magnificentdonkey on May 13, 2023 20:22:32 GMT
That sounds quite cool, and could contain snippets of JCS in a kind of sequel, but with a better plot than his last sequel attempt. But the point of my message was that if ALW indeed decided to create a musical of 'The Master and Margarita', he'd have to either dispose of one of the novel's main storylines (there are actually three of them: the character of Woland (the Devil himself, in fact) with his retinue visiting Soviet Moscow of 1930-1940 and making quite a spectacle of their visit; then there's the romantiс story of the Master and Margarita meeting each other and their subsequent love affair; and then there's of course the Master's novel about Pilate - what is traditionally called "the Yershalaim (meaning Jerusalem, of course) chapters of ''The Master and Margarita"". And at the end of the novel all of its three main storylines intertwine in the most enthralling way). So, my point is this: if ALW decided to turn the book into a musical, he'd have to either dispose of 'the Yershalaim chapters' (which I really don't see happening because of the novel's finale, where the Master has to meet his protagonist and give him peace at last) OR sort of re-write JCS (well, in a way). And sorry to disappoint you, but it can't be regarded as a sequel to JCS, because the plot of JCS deals with the exact same events as 'the Yershalaim chapters': the first meeting of Pilate and Christ, Pilate and Caiaphas 'sentencing Nazareth and putting Him to death', the Crucifixion and Judas' death, which happens after the Crucifixion in the Master's novel and under entirely different circumstances, too, but I won't spoil it for you  There's actually only one episode which could be regarded as a sequel to the events depicted in JCS, and that is the finale of the novel/musical, where Pilate's destiny must be resolved by none other than the Master himself. Apart from this single (though significant) scene, the rest of the Yershalaim plot is the same as JCS, more or less. That's why it's impossible to regard 'The Master and Margarita' as a sequel (even a kind of) to JCS, unfortunately. I also don't see him incorporating snippets of JCS into the musical body of 'The M&M' (although I have to admit I do find the idea quite thrilling) for two reasons: 1. All of the music in the 'The M&M' has to be stylistically coherent (or so I imagine, at least) and 2. Jesus, Pilate, Judas and Caiaphas from 'The M&M' are not their corresponding namesakes from JCS: there's a strong resemblance, obviously, but they are still not the same characters, they are quite different, really, with different motivations and destinies (especially in the cases of Pilate and Judas, Caiaphas being barely present and relatively insignificant in the Master's novel). BUT. If ALW used some of the musical themes he created for JCS as leitmotifs and reminiscences (only severely reorchestrated and rearranged to the point of being barely recognizable - the sort of thing he did with his 'Angel of Music' tune from PotO, reworking and incorporating it into 'My Dear Old Friend' from LND) for his Yershalaim scenes of 'The M&M'-musical - that might actually work! That would also mean 'coming full circle' for him, in a beautiful and symbolical way! That's a beautiful concept, imo, and it makes me strangely happy to think about it. Come to think of it, maybe that's exactly what you had in mind when writing your post; if so, please forgive me for a slight misunderstanding on my part. |
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Post by sukhavati on May 16, 2023 7:03:04 GMT
It's an interesting prospect. There's the opportunity for the show within the show. The question would be whether they are able to use "La Bohème" or will there be a mock opera a la "Il Muto" or "Don Juan Triumphant?" I do love that film. |
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Post by adamkinsey on May 16, 2023 11:48:01 GMT
Can't he just retire? PLEASE?
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Post by mattnyc on May 16, 2023 11:58:04 GMT
Can't he just retire? PLEASE? Why? Is his continuing to work negatively impacting your daily life? |
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Post by adamkinsey on May 16, 2023 13:09:56 GMT
Can't he just retire? PLEASE? Why? Is his continuing to work negatively impacting your daily life? Because he's not the composer he once was by some margin. His piece for the Coronation was dire and Cinderella was "not good" (and his behaviour to the West End cast disgraceful). |
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1,488 posts
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Post by BVM on Jun 15, 2023 9:07:51 GMT
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1,488 posts
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Post by BVM on Jun 15, 2023 9:39:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2023 10:58:43 GMT
I think there would be more uproar now, especially from Argentina. But I think he could still write it, but I'm not sure a white British person would get away with playing the lead. I'd assume it's the one that the movie A United Kingdom is based on. Its a shame as its a heavily emotion based story, something he tends to be good at capturing. I don't see why he couldn't compose the score but he would have to be open to collaboration with black creatives as well. Not dissimilar to Bombay Dreams how it had a white lyricist in a way |
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Post by spathzthecat on Jun 15, 2023 23:07:10 GMT
Cats in New York is coming
NEW YORK -- Andrew Lloyd Webber's absence from New York City's stages will be at most 14 months, with “Cats” returning in June 2024 at the World Trade Center's new Perelman Performing Arts Center.
“Cats” will appear in June and July 2024 directed by Zhailon Levingston and Bill Rauch, with choreography by Arturo Lyons and Omari Wiles.
The musical will have reimagined staging set in Harlem’s drag Ballroom Culture. Bill Rauch, PAC's artistic director, said Ballroom Culture will come across in the casting, staging and design.
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Post by danb on Jun 16, 2023 5:12:35 GMT
Cats in New York is coming NEW YORK -- Andrew Lloyd Webber's absence from New York City's stages will be at most 14 months, with “Cats” returning in June 2024 at the World Trade Center's new Perelman Performing Arts Center. “Cats” will appear in June and July 2024 directed by Zhailon Levingston and Bill Rauch, with choreography by Arturo Lyons and Omari Wiles. The musical will have reimagined staging set in Harlem’s drag Ballroom Culture. Bill Rauch, PAC's artistic director, said Ballroom Culture will come across in the casting, staging and design. This is exactly what creatives should be doing with ALW’s canon. Reinvention and reinterpretation to keep them alive. He has a prolific body of work which, given a well thought out new angle, can be reinvented ad infinitum (not just working out the cheapest possible thing they can get away with). |
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Post by andypandy on Jun 16, 2023 8:08:16 GMT
Fact - I met ALW when he was in Moscow researching Master and Margarita.
Sadly due to the Ukraine War there is no way he would do a musical connected with Russia now.
Such a shame as it’s an epic tale - though twists into the bizarre at times.
That said grand and sweeping romance is what ALW does best / not any new versions of SIX or &Juliet
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 9:32:32 GMT
Coming next: Fandom of the Opera, a musical about fans distraught about the closing of Phantom of the Opera on Broadway.
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Post by andypandy on Jun 16, 2023 23:29:33 GMT
As ALW likes to take other composer's ideas (Phantom/Whistle) I think he should use the italian / WW2 story from Glory Ride. Love him or loathe him Webber would write some soaring balleds and numbers which the current show very much lacked.
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