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Post by mattnyc on Jan 2, 2023 22:17:50 GMT
Any discussion of Bernadette “always being awful” can be shown as false with a simple YouTube search and she is arguably the consummate interpreter of Sondheim’s material.
One of my absolute favorite performances of hers -
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2023 22:19:55 GMT
She absolutely has a unique voice and way of putting over a song. And it isn't going to please everyone. She has always been a somewhat divisive performer.
It isn't wrong to love her and it isn't wrong to not like her voice/style.
I loved her Witch in the original ITW but I don't love everything she has done since.
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Post by mattnyc on Jan 2, 2023 22:23:37 GMT
I think it’s more fair to say that people like Ethel Merman and Judi Dench’s voices are more “divisive” than Peters’.
This is a bizarre discussion to have.
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Post by Jon on Jan 2, 2023 22:31:39 GMT
Bernadette Peters was fabulous in Holly Dolly! but she doesn't suit some songs
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jan 2, 2023 22:50:16 GMT
Agree with this 100%. I was there and the broadcast was a wonderful reminder of my favourite night of 2022. I appreciate this is a board for sharing comments, but why does it feel like there’s a desperate need to criticise some of the greatest musical theatre performers in the world? I honestly expected this thread to be full of musical theatre lovers singing the highest praises for a truly special night but some of the comments are just depressing. People who may have heard Sondheim’s lyrics 500 times still laugh because they are genius and it remains a constant joy to hear them, particularly performed by some of the greatest interpreters of his work. Even if you have heard a song hundreds of times, you can still pick up new nuances or jokes that you may not have picked up on before or forgotten. It is also part of the magic of live theatre to share that joy with others in the audience and laughter can be infectious. I really don’t understand the Bernadette Peters or Michael Ball hate. I thought both were sensational and particularly remember Bernadette’s entrance as Red Riding Hood being a proper coup de theatre, although that didn’t necessarily come across on screen. There's no desperate need and there was no hate. Yes the lyrics are genius, yes the tunes are great, but when you have heard them 500 times, you get to know what sounds good and what doesn't. Yes Bernadette Peters has a huge association with Sondheim and the OBCR's that she is on, are wonderful. But lets not kid ourselves that at the age of 74 she's still got it. I Know Things Now is hardly a big sing. I also don't get why she needed a body double in a red cloak to come on, wave, and go out again, so she could come on in the same costume when it was really obvious they switched. Hardly a coup de theatre. What did you think of Petula Clark? |
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Post by robertb213 on Jan 2, 2023 23:25:10 GMT
Peters may be a legend and a leading Sondheim interpreter but I felt she was the weakest of the female principals in this concert by a long way. She absolutely had to be in the line-up, but saying she was great 15/30 years ago doesn't make her great today by default just because of who she is, she's still open to being critiqued by those who don't like her style or tone.
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Post by Being Alive on Jan 2, 2023 23:41:09 GMT
Peters may be a legend and a leading Sondheim interpreter but I felt she was the weakest of the female principals in this concert by a long way. She absolutely had to be in the line-up, but saying she was great 15/30 years ago doesn't make her great today by default just because of who she is, she's still open to being critiqued by those who don't like her style or tone. Are you actually saying Bernadette was weaker than Petula? (I know she's 15 years older, but are you actually saying that?) |
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Post by theatreian on Jan 3, 2023 10:06:20 GMT
Are you actually saying Bernadette was weaker than Petula? Petula actually performed the song the way it is written and really acted it.Of course her voice is not as it was but she still did a decent job of it. |
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Post by robertb213 on Jan 3, 2023 10:42:21 GMT
Peters may be a legend and a leading Sondheim interpreter but I felt she was the weakest of the female principals in this concert by a long way. She absolutely had to be in the line-up, but saying she was great 15/30 years ago doesn't make her great today by default just because of who she is, she's still open to being critiqued by those who don't like her style or tone. Are you actually saying Bernadette was weaker than Petula? (I know she's 15 years older, but are you actually saying that?) I forgot about Petula - OK, second weakest! 🤣 |
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jan 3, 2023 11:20:12 GMT
if I can perform Sondheim with a degree of charisma and charm at the age of 90 I'd also be pretty happy with myself!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2023 13:17:51 GMT
Unfortunately, when Bernadette's voice is ragged nowadays, it often is very ragged, standing in stark contrast to the vocal range she still commands with more skill, tone, and polish.
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Post by karloscar on Jan 3, 2023 13:42:34 GMT
Watching all the performers who are getting on a bit the acting and expression make up for what is lacking vocally. Sian Philips hasn't been mentioned so far, but she's still able to sell a number with humour and panache, Julia McKenzie didn't sing much but the twinkle in her eye and line delivery was still there, Judi Dench's Send in the Clowns was less compelling than it used to be, but the storytelling was still there, and with Petula too the narrative was clear although the delivery was more weary resignation rather than triumphant survivor. Bernadette's visits to Madonna's plastic surgeon seem to have robbed her of the facial expression that can make all the difference when storytelling through song. I'd forgive the vocal limitations if you could tell what she was feeling rather than just a blank page or canvas. Granted this is much more noticeable in close up than on stage but still very distracting nonetheless. Such a shame really.
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Post by David J on Jan 3, 2023 14:35:03 GMT
That's what I felt about the show. Sian Phillips, Judi Dench, Julia McKenzie, and Petula Clark were certainly past their prime but they knew how to act rather than just sing. Damian Lewis and Haydn Gwynne too, though I must say they've got impressive voices, whilst Imelda Staunton has still got it. A friend of mine watched it with me and he's not a one for musicals because he finds performers just like to sing and play big but not from a place of truth. And he felt a lot of the other cast members were doing that.
Though he thought Michael Ball had been taking acting lessons since he saw him as Sweeney Todd in Chichester. I didn't think much of Sonia Freedman's singing as Mrs Lovett in the Proms concert and here I thought she sounded worse and tended to overact.
Which isn't a bad thing in itself but the names I mentioned showed how you do it. I've never seen Bernadette Peters live, only watched videos of her, so my unbiased point of view is her voice isn't what it used to be and her acting consisted of that blank look as karloscar describes.
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Post by theatreian on Jan 3, 2023 14:48:51 GMT
That's what I felt about the show. Sian Phillips, Judi Dench, Julia McKenzie, and Petula Clark were certainly past their prime but they knew how to act rather than just sing. That's exactly what I thought about those performers.They all have extensive acting experience as well as singing so could really sell the song the way it was supposed to be performed. |
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Post by Jon on Jan 3, 2023 15:03:53 GMT
That's what I felt about the show. Sian Phillips, Judi Dench, Julia McKenzie, and Petula Clark were certainly past their prime but they knew how to act rather than just sing. Damian Lewis and Haydn Gwynne too, though I must say they've got impressive voices, whilst Imelda Staunton has still got it. A friend of mine watched it with me and he's not a one for musicals because he finds performers just like to sing and play big but not from a place of truth. And he felt a lot of the other cast members were doing that. Though he thought Michael Ball had been taking acting lessons since he saw him as Sweeney Todd in Chichester. I didn't think much of Sonia Freedman's singing as Mrs Lovett in the Proms concert and here I thought she sounded worse and tended to overact. Which isn't a bad thing in itself but the names I mentioned showed how you do it. I've never seen Bernadette Peters live, only watched videos of her, so my unbiased point of view is her voice isn't what it used to be and her acting consisted of that blank look as karloscar describes. I think you mean Maria Friedman, Sonia's a theatre producer who by her own admission can't sing. |
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Post by David J on Jan 3, 2023 15:10:03 GMT
That's what I felt about the show. Sian Phillips, Judi Dench, Julia McKenzie, and Petula Clark were certainly past their prime but they knew how to act rather than just sing. Damian Lewis and Haydn Gwynne too, though I must say they've got impressive voices, whilst Imelda Staunton has still got it. A friend of mine watched it with me and he's not a one for musicals because he finds performers just like to sing and play big but not from a place of truth. And he felt a lot of the other cast members were doing that. Though he thought Michael Ball had been taking acting lessons since he saw him as Sweeney Todd in Chichester. I didn't think much of Sonia Freedman's singing as Mrs Lovett in the Proms concert and here I thought she sounded worse and tended to overact. Which isn't a bad thing in itself but the names I mentioned showed how you do it. I've never seen Bernadette Peters live, only watched videos of her, so my unbiased point of view is her voice isn't what it used to be and her acting consisted of that blank look as karloscar describes. I think you mean Maria Friedman, Sonia's a theatre producer who by her own admission can't sing. Oh, and I was thinking 'please put the right sister's name'  Can one of those two change up their name or something |
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Post by stevemar on Jan 3, 2023 18:47:44 GMT
QUOTE from alece10 “Did you notice how the audience waited until the very last note of every song before applauding? Just how it should be.”Yes, this was great. Question to forum members who were there - did they ask the audience to follow that (good) etiquette? I enjoyed the concert - compared to similar TV offerings such as the Proms’ broadcasts, I thought it was well produced and filmed, though it was a shame the last song Our Time was cut. Great to see a huge variety of performers, including “legends” brought together - I think it will be rare for that to happen again. I enjoyed in particular Imelda Staunton, Julian Ovenden, Maria Friedman (who has done so much to bring audiences to Sondheim in the last 10/15 years such as at the Menier), Rob Houchen and so many of the big and supporting performers from the West End in the last 20 years or so. A worthy celebration of Sondheim. Definitely helped having the subtitles on and running order to hand: www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/sondheim-old-friends-bbc-broadcast-cast-songs_58083.html
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Post by n1david on Jan 3, 2023 19:16:50 GMT
did they ask the audience to follow that (good) etiquette? No, it just happened... |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jan 3, 2023 22:54:50 GMT
That's what I felt about the show. Sian Phillips, Judi Dench, Julia McKenzie, and Petula Clark were certainly past their prime but they knew how to act rather than just sing. That's exactly what I thought about those performers.They all have extensive acting experience as well as singing so could really sell the song the way it was supposed to be performed. I would delete Petula from that list immediately, she’s shocking! 🤣 |
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Post by mrmarmelstein on Jan 4, 2023 11:05:48 GMT
I really don’t understand the Bernadette Peters or Michael Ball hate. I thought both were sensational and particularly remember Bernadette’s entrance as Red Riding Hood being a proper coup de theatre, although that didn’t necessarily come across on screen. I Know Things Now is hardly a big sing. I also don't get why she needed a body double in a red cloak to come on, wave, and go out again, so she could come on in the same costume when it was really obvious they switched. Hardly a coup de theatre. What did you think of Petula Clark? Must admit I didn’t spot it was a body double, but in the moment on the night it certainly felt like a coup de theatre. It didn’t necessarily come across on screen, but that might be because we knew it was coming. At the time, I had made particular effort not to follow rehearsal clips posted or read the song list in the programme before it started (and interestingly, the programme did not list performers and they were only included on the A4 slips given out as we left). I’m sure I wasn’t alone in assuming, given the number of performers, that Bernadette would do one or two solos and that would be it. Personally I was delighted we got so much more. We were also sat in the stalls on third row stage right (so basically by where Bernadette/double entered) and there was a definite sense of mystery when Red Riding Hood ran across the stage in the Into the Woods number. When she did reveal herself for I Know Things Now it really did feel like a ‘wow’ moment - the fact that it’s not a big sing is irrelevant, it was the joy that Red Riding Hood turned out to be the original Broadway Witch and I thought she did a fabulous job. Clearly those who aren’t fans of her these days aren’t going to be convinced, but I continue to be impressed by her performances and it’s hard to believe she’s in her 70s. I would agree with those who have said she may struggle to sell tickets for a longer run on her name alone - yes, she is legendary in musical theatre circles and a known name to older generations, but I recall that she struggled to sell out her most recent UK shows pre-pandemic and there were hefty discounts going around. As for Petula Clark, I could take her or leave her. Certainly didn’t think she did a terrible job, but her connection to Sondheim seemed tenuous (in last week’s Times, she said she has recorded some of his songs in the past) but her presence did feel like another one of Cameron’s unnecessary indulgences. |
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Post by distantcousin on Jan 4, 2023 11:22:03 GMT
I haven't got round to watching it yet, but reading these vastly polarising opinions and viewpoints is enormous FUN!!!
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Post by sukhavati on Jan 7, 2023 13:05:32 GMT
Finally streamed it. Wasn't expecting to see Helena Bonham Carter, so that was a bit fun. I had the most fun watching Gotta Have a Gimmick and Everybody Ought to Have Maid. I want to be Anna Jane Casey when I grow up; she's amazing. I almost lost it when she muttered, "I'm too old for this crap." The cigarette was the perfect touch. And props to Bernadette Peters for doing the trumpet gag between her legs. Dignity. Always dignity.
The reactions to Bernadette's singing makes me sad, but I think she's 74 now. No her voice isn't what it used to be, but it was always a sort of throwback to another era compared to the more traditional Broadway belters. I think her talent has always been in sincerely connecting to the lyric combined with connecting to the audience. Got to see her cabaret act a long time ago, and she was continually locking eyes with people in the supper club. It made the ballads feel very intimate and heartbreaking at times.
It hasn't been that long since Company was at the Gielgud. I felt a little sad for Rosalie Craig that they didn't let her do Being Alive as a solo - that was her signature number, and she was the groundbreaker for the show. Going the traditional route, AJ could have given Jonny Bailey a run for his money. Woudn't it be a laugh to see them have competing meltdowns for Not Getting Married Today?
I agree that Damien Lewis should do MT again. He looked as if he was having the time of his life. And it's always a pleasure to listen to Julian sing...
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 7, 2023 13:13:05 GMT
I wonder who they will cast alongside Dame Bernadette for the Wendy's End run ?
I'd like Jenna Russell, Janie Dee, Anna Jane Casey, Anna Francolini and Damien Humbley for sure.
Definitely no michael ball
And some weekly guest slots would keep it interesting
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Post by fluxcapacitor on Jan 7, 2023 13:18:29 GMT
Finally streamed it. Wasn't expecting to see Helena Bonham Carter, so that was a bit fun. I had the most fun watching Gotta Have a Gimmick and Everybody Ought to Have Maid. I want to be Anna Jane Casey when I grow up; she's amazing. I almost lost it when she muttered, "I'm too old for this crap." The cigarette was the perfect touch. And props to Bernadette Peters for doing the trumpet gag between her legs. Dignity. Always dignity. The reactions to Bernadette's singing makes me sad, but I think she's 74 now. No her voice isn't what it used to be, but it was always a sort of throwback to another era compared to the more traditional Broadway belters. I think her talent has always been in sincerely connecting to the lyric combined with connecting to the audience. Got to see her cabaret act a long time ago, and she was continually locking eyes with people in the supper club. It made the ballads feel very intimate and heartbreaking at times. It hasn't been that long since Company was at the Gielgud. I felt a little sad for Rosalie Craig that they didn't let her do Being Alive as a solo - that was her signature number, and she was the groundbreaker for the show. Going the traditional route, AJ could have given Jonny Bailey a run for his money. Woudn't it be a laugh to see them have competing meltdowns for Not Getting Married Today? I agree that Damien Lewis should do MT again. He looked as if he was having the time of his life. And it's always a pleasure to listen to Julian sing... I agree about the negative reactions to BP. I was mesmerised by her on the night. No, she's not at the top of her game like she used to be, but she's still magical. She sucks you in. At least, I think she does. I was also a little disappointed that they went for the "old" Company interpretations. Or at least that they only went with the original versions of the songs they did: Getting Married Today, You Could Drive a Person Crazy, Ladies Who Lunch (granted, that's just a few lyric changes, but still...). Especially when Sondheim had been so positive about the newer version. And even more so when the performer who originated the female Bobby was literally on the stage. I agree with you that Rosalie Craig should have at least led Being Alive. That was a missed opportunity IMO and one of my only real gripes with the show. |
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Post by Being Alive on Jan 7, 2023 13:20:53 GMT
Jonny was originally asked but because he was headlining above the title in Cock he couldnt get the night off - so they originally were looking at a mixture of the new way and the old way - Drive A Person Crazy works better with women anyway I find 🤷🏻♂️
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