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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:56:01 GMT
Yes, Ben Miles is the draw for me, too. Will have to check out auditorium configuration and see if I can find something reasonable in the sightline nightmare that is the Dorfman. He is FIT But I think for this play the character is too annoying to overlook And also he has dyed his hair and it looks too obvious |
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Post by schuttep on May 30, 2016 18:54:51 GMT
I usually always leave at the interval Very rarely during the show only in exceptional cases And even then during scene change To be honest The row can manage It's hardly a major drama I usually go alone Take no bags And agile and slender And so slim people don't even need to stand up to let me paSs Are you studying haiku? It's not quite a 3 line poem of 5, 7 and 5 syllable, but it feels as though that's what you're aiming for. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 21:53:12 GMT
Yes, Ben Miles is the draw for me, too. Will have to check out auditorium configuration and see if I can find something reasonable in the sightline nightmare that is the Dorfman. He is FIT But I think for this play the character is too annoying to overlook And also he has dyed his hair and it looks too obvious I hear you, parsley. But I might still give him a chance. ;-) Configuration seems odd for this one. I assume the £20 seats are priced that way because you'd spend a lot of time looking at the back of actors' heads? The £39 end-of-row dress I usually sit in may not actually be looking too bad for this one, I'm thinking... |
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Post by Steve on May 30, 2016 22:49:45 GMT
Returning to the topic - anyone seen this apart from Mister I-Hate-Everything? I fancy it because of Sam Crane & Ben Miles and 20 quid front row Friday Rush seats but it if proves to be that awful by everyone I might give it a miss.. Not too many days in London to spare and so much I want to see! Sam Crane and Ben Miles are very good in this, so if you like them, I would see it. It's Chekhov-lite for much of the running time, a sort of reverse-Cherry Orchard, with the prospective purchase of a perpetually sunlit Villa Thalia, on a Greek Island in 1967, by a young British Couple (Sam Crane's Theo and Pippa Nixon's Charlotte) for a song from two departing Greeks, being the action that drives the play. Like in Chekhov, most of the running time involves characters making small talk, enjoying themselves and socialising, in various states of obliviousness to monumental changes happening around them. As in any play where the playwright is not confident of getting huge amounts of exposition out in an elegant way, a note on the free cast list tells us that Act 1 is set on the island of Skiathos, Greece, in April 1967 (the year a right wing coup d'etat overthrew Greece's democracy), and Act 2 is set in 1976 (after democracy was restored). But you don't need to worry about Greece, or it's history too much, because the play is about the British couple, a liberal pair, who have retreated to Greece to stimulate playwright, Theo's creative juices. Theo, played with consumate naturalism and affability by Sam Crane, is plainly the artistic stand-in for Alexei Kaye Campbell himself, seeking to change the world for the better through his writing. In the world of this well-meaning couple explode an American couple, that Charlotte has befriended, Ben Miles' Harvey and Elizabeth McGovern's June. Harvey says he works for "the American Government," so it's boo-hiss from the audience from the very beginning, assuming him to be the most dastardly villain, despite Ben Miles imbuing him with immense cheer, learning and general all-around charm. Miles is terrific, accent impeccable, veering Harvey between the twin poles of creepy-controlling-omniscience and compelling-hail-fellow-well-met-charisma effortlessly. In my favourite scene from the play, Miles' Harvey teaches everyone how to do a Greek dance. That's right, Harvey even knows how to Greek dance. The question of what he is up to, who he is, and what that will mean for everyone else, remains in flux right up until the play's final reveal. Elizabeth McGovern's June, a middle aged woman who likes bacardi, is thinly drawn, but McGovern is delightful as a vacant comedy foil to her husband's overwhelming presence, though she is unable to bring the serious underpinning of a genuine alcoholic to bear on the role, as Campbell fails to sufficiently develop her character until too late in the running, and when he tries to do so, it's clumsy. This leaves her dreadful fake-looking blonde wig, which contrasts so utterly with her otherwise perfect 1960's showpony glamour, to do much of the work of deepening her characterisation. Despite some implausible turns that briefly threw me out of the story, despite the creaking mechanics of story contrivances, despite some on-the-nose dialogue, I was seduced by the sunlit set, I was gripped by Miles' characterisation, I utterly believed Sam Crane and Pippa Nixon, I was never ever bored, and I felt that Campbell's ultimate point was well-earned and spot on. I really liked this production. 3 and a half stars  |
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 30, 2016 22:54:36 GMT
I never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with Parsley. This is bad. The second act is worse than the first. It's not the worst play I've ever seen by a long shot. It's mainly inoffensive and it's vaguely amusing in a BBC3 sitcom kind of way. There's just nothing positive about it. It's the kind of thing which if you saw it at a pub fringe theatre, or an A Level student showcase, you'd clap politely while groaning. I can see what the playwright was getting at (there's an interesting play to be written about privileged tourists in underprivileged countries and the levels to which we are complicit, but it's not this play), but it mainly felt like he wanted to write a naice play about having fun in Greece with a bit of lip service to drama and politics. I have to question ending the first half with the military coup that subjugated an entire country to horrific oppression, torture and mass-murder for years, then starting the second act a decade later when everything's all lovely again. Greece lived under the Junta for seven years. Jumping straight over that time period so you don't have to spare a single thought for it or for any actual Greeks leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a bit like deciding to write a WWII play but then skipping straight from Hitler's invasion of Poland to VE Day so you don't have to actually write any icky war stuff. The scene where the couple have a hysterical sobbing breakdown over their white middle class guilt at having *shock* legally purchased a house from someone who wanted to sell itis unintentionally hilarious and kind of offensive (would they have felt the same guilt if they'd bought a house from a white working class English couple?)worst because I felt the playwright wasn't questioning their self-indulgent "white guilt superiority" but uncritically stating that they were guilty. OMG the scene where Nixon's character throws a tantrum about them committing "cultural appropriation" by daring to dance to the Greek music rather than solemnly contemplating the plight of the ancient refugees who originally invented that style of music. It felt like that whole speech was copied and pasted from someone's Tumblr blog that has "person ~~ feminist ~~ social justice warrior ~~ cisfemale ~~ uses gender neutral pronouns ~~ NTJP ~~ otherkin" in their bio. The final scene is unnecessary in the same way the final scene of Elegy is unnecessary. We've already seen the girl detail the conversation, we don't need to see it. I don't think "my gran once told me never to sell her house but once she was dead I thought, stuff it, I want the money so I can move somewhere much better" is anywhere near as poignant as the playwright thinks it is. The acting is very good. 2 points, The Pride is in my top 20 all time favourite plays. And the discussion here made me readdress my opinions on X (which I also thought was dire). I'm ready to be convinced of its good points! |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 23:26:54 GMT
I never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with Parsley. This is bad. The second act is worse than the first. It's not the worst play I've ever seen by a long shot. It's mainly inoffensive and it's vaguely amusing in a BBC3 sitcom kind of way. There's just nothing positive about it. It's the kind of thing which if you saw it at a pub fringe theatre, or an A Level student showcase, you'd clap politely while groaning. I can see what the playwright was getting at (there's an interesting play to be written about privileged tourists in underprivileged countries and the levels to which we are complicit, but it's not this play), but it mainly felt like he wanted to write a naice play about having fun in Greece with a bit of lip service to drama and politics. I have to question ending the first half with the military coup that subjugated an entire country to horrific oppression, torture and mass-murder for years, then starting the second act a decade later when everything's all lovely again. Greece lived under the Junta for seven years. Jumping straight over that time period so you don't have to spare a single thought for it or for any actual Greeks leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a bit like deciding to write a WWII play but then skipping straight from Hitler's invasion of Poland to VE Day so you don't have to actually write any icky war stuff. The scene where the couple have a hysterical sobbing breakdown over their white middle class guilt at having *shock* legally purchased a house from someone who wanted to sell itis unintentionally hilarious and kind of offensive (would they have felt the same guilt if they'd bought a house from a white working class English couple?)worst because I felt the playwright wasn't questioning their self-indulgent "white guilt superiority" but uncritically stating that they were guilty. OMG the scene where Nixon's character throws a tantrum about them committing "cultural appropriation" by daring to dance to the Greek music rather than solemnly contemplating the plight of the ancient refugees who originally invented that style of music. It felt like that whole speech was copied and pasted from someone's Tumblr blog that has "person ~~ feminist ~~ social justice warrior ~~ cisfemale ~~ uses gender neutral pronouns ~~ NTJP ~~ otherkin" in their bio. The final scene is unnecessary in the same way the final scene of Elegy is unnecessary. We've already seen the girl detail the conversation, we don't need to see it. I don't think "my gran once told me never to sell her house but once she was dead I thought, stuff it, I want the money so I can move somewhere much better" is anywhere near as poignant as the playwright thinks it is. The acting is very good. 2 points, The Pride is in my top 20 all time favourite plays. And the discussion here made me readdress my opinions on X (which I also thought was dire). I'm ready to be convinced of its good points! Thanks for your thoughts I enjoyed reading them It sums up the nothingness of the play well The NT should be giving us the best possible writing Not the writing of whoever is shagging or married to the directors who are known to the place Their track record for commissioning BAME is shocking |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 23:30:00 GMT
I never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with Parsley. This is bad. The second act is worse than the first. It's not the worst play I've ever seen by a long shot. It's mainly inoffensive and it's vaguely amusing in a BBC3 sitcom kind of way. There's just nothing positive about it. It's the kind of thing which if you saw it at a pub fringe theatre, or an A Level student showcase, you'd clap politely while groaning. I can see what the playwright was getting at (there's an interesting play to be written about privileged tourists in underprivileged countries and the levels to which we are complicit, but it's not this play), but it mainly felt like he wanted to write a naice play about having fun in Greece with a bit of lip service to drama and politics. I have to question ending the first half with the military coup that subjugated an entire country to horrific oppression, torture and mass-murder for years, then starting the second act a decade later when everything's all lovely again. Greece lived under the Junta for seven years. Jumping straight over that time period so you don't have to spare a single thought for it or for any actual Greeks leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a bit like deciding to write a WWII play but then skipping straight from Hitler's invasion of Poland to VE Day so you don't have to actually write any icky war stuff. The scene where the couple have a hysterical sobbing breakdown over their white middle class guilt at having *shock* legally purchased a house from someone who wanted to sell itis unintentionally hilarious and kind of offensive (would they have felt the same guilt if they'd bought a house from a white working class English couple?)worst because I felt the playwright wasn't questioning their self-indulgent "white guilt superiority" but uncritically stating that they were guilty. OMG the scene where Nixon's character throws a tantrum about them committing "cultural appropriation" by daring to dance to the Greek music rather than solemnly contemplating the plight of the ancient refugees who originally invented that style of music. It felt like that whole speech was copied and pasted from someone's Tumblr blog that has "person ~~ feminist ~~ social justice warrior ~~ cisfemale ~~ uses gender neutral pronouns ~~ NTJP ~~ otherkin" in their bio. The final scene is unnecessary in the same way the final scene of Elegy is unnecessary. We've already seen the girl detail the conversation, we don't need to see it. I don't think "my gran once told me never to sell her house but once she was dead I thought, stuff it, I want the money so I can move somewhere much better" is anywhere near as poignant as the playwright thinks it is. The acting is very good. 2 points, The Pride is in my top 20 all time favourite plays. And the discussion here made me readdress my opinions on X (which I also thought was dire). I'm ready to be convinced of its good points! This sounds awful now But I do love Ben Miles Can you tell me the ending please As a hidden spoiler Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 23:31:48 GMT
I bet Michael Billington gives it 4 stars
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Post by Steve on May 30, 2016 23:36:31 GMT
I never thought I'd see the day, but I agree with Parsley. This is bad. I have agreed with Parsley many times, though usually on the things he likes lol. Love your thoughts! 1. {Spoiler - click to view} I have to question ending the first half with the military coup that subjugated an entire country to horrific oppression, torture and mass-murder for years, then starting the second act a decade later when everything's all lovely again. {Spoiler - click to view}
That works for me. We stay with the blithe enjoyment of the couple, who deep down don't give a damn about what happened. Greece's pain doesn't really matter to them, so why allow us to experience it. I feel Campbell wants us to gloss over Greece's pain as well, until Miles' Harvey makes that speech about the fate of the house sellers.
2. {Spoiler - click to view} I felt the playwright wasn't questioning their self-indulgent "white guilt superiority" but uncritically stating that they were guilty. {Spoiler - click to view}
He was, and although the words he puts in their mouths are obvious and creaky and manipulative, he's right. They are guilty of saying they believe this and that, when in fact, they don't. Campbell knows that he himself, and many he knows, claim to care, and bleed their hearts out, but really never put more than lipservice towards the beliefs they claim to have.
3. {Spoiler - click to view} OMG the scene where Nixon's character throws a tantrum about them committing "cultural appropriation" by daring to dance to the Greek music rather than solemnly contemplating the plight of the ancient refugees who originally invented that style of music. It felt like that whole speech was copied and pasted from someone's Tumblr blog that has "person ~~ feminist ~~ social justice warrior ~~ cisfemale ~~ uses gender neutral pronouns ~~ NTJP ~~ otherkin" in their bio. {Spoiler - click to view}
It is. Campbell thinks people who talk like that are full of crap. Pippa Nixon's character is deflecting to hide her hypocrisy from herself. Maybe Campbell himself talks like that, so he knows. 4. {Spoiler - click to view} The final scene is unnecessary in the same way the final scene of Elegy is unnecessary. We've already seen the girl detail the conversation, we don't need to see it. I don't think "my gran once told me never to sell her house but once she was dead I thought, stuff it, I want the money so I can move somewhere much better" is anywhere near as poignant as the playwright thinks it is. {Spoiler - click to view}
I think Campbell returns to them so that we can end with the victims, and contemplate them. It really doesn't matter what they say. But Campbell's real ending happens earlier: that Faustian hug between Crane and Miles, where Miles thanks Crane for his "loyalty" lol. At the end, liberal do-gooder and the doer of "disgreeable things" are mirrored, symbiotic creatures. |
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Post by rumbledoll on May 31, 2016 13:22:52 GMT
Returning to the topic - anyone seen this apart from Mister I-Hate-Everything? I fancy it because of Sam Crane & Ben Miles and 20 quid front row Friday Rush seats but it if proves to be that awful by everyone I might give it a miss.. Not too many days in London to spare and so much I want to see! In my favourite scene from the play, Miles' Harvey teaches everyone how to do a Greek dance. That's right, Harvey even knows how to Greek dance. Now I absolutely MUST see this!  Steve, thank you for the review and for helping me make up my mind x I don't mind Chekovish plays, I usually like them more than epic ones. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on May 31, 2016 14:23:12 GMT
This sounds awful now But I do love Ben Miles Can you tell me the ending please As a hidden spoiler Thanks British couple (who now have kids) sell the villa for a fortune and buy a nice cottage in Cornwall. Then cry because buying it cheap in the first place was morally wrong, even though they apparently have no problem with making a hefty profit on it. American couple act drunk and obnoxious, fight over Chilean politics and Miles' character's involvement in evil US government dealings, Nixon's character screams at them to get out. Miles sez "is it 'cos I never f****d you?" then goes and grabs and snogs her husband ("but I still ain't a queer!"). End of friendship. Random black-clad crone wanders in and sits down at their dining table, turns out is flashback to Maria being told "never sell the house" by her Ya-ya. Oh and the funniest bit in the entire play is the knowledge that somewhere are printed the stage directions, "angrily throws salad back into salad bowl." Having said that, Steve's thoughtful as always post has sort of made me re-think the play, because I didn't look at it as a relationship drama. I'm not sold on it but I can see that perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 16:03:39 GMT
Sounds like it's veering towards so bad it's good territory- am looking forward to it!
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Post by peelee on May 31, 2016 16:55:27 GMT
"Returning to the topic - anyone seen this apart from Mister I-Hate-Everything? I fancy it because of Sam Crane & Ben Miles and 20 quid front row Friday Rush seats but it if proves to be that awful by everyone I might give it a miss.. Not too many days in London to spare and so much I want to see!" — wrote rumbledoll It's not awful at all, rumbledoll, though if your spare days are few then please note that, at present, tickets look a little more available from mid-July. I'd booked because when early this year I had read of it being set "..on a Greek island in April 1967" I had an inkling of what the author might deal with and also the year and month set off memories of those times. In the foreground on stage, a domestic setting where a holiday villa and sea view inspire love and longing in one couple, while for its Greek owners their longing is eventually confronted by necessity. Other holidaymakers, or rather US international travellers, represent a link to what is in process and presumably seething in the background. Two links here, a quirky, personal one by a fellow who seems to know the country, and a Wiki link to events in Greece (that the play does not spell out about this troubled Eden). The closest to any consideration of that, is a fascinating article about Chile in the 1970s by Latin American specialist Arturo Valenzuela, in the theatre programme, Chile being a parallel on another continent to what Greece had undergone and, incidentally, involving Chicago School economist Milton Friedman (whose nostrums also made themselves felt in 1980s Britain): www.ahistoryofgreece.com/junta.htmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967–74But you have to read around for this, well away from the play, to the extent you are at all curious about the background and why Harvey (Ben Miles) is so influential in the unfolding of this story. He was the only one of the excellent cast I recognised, though I realised later I had seen Elizabeth McGovern in US films years ago. It was lovely to hear Greek spoken on stage, the play a reminder too of Greece's current state. There is the authenticity of the writer's connections to the land of his birth, and presumably heartfelt thoughts about times past, present and what the future there could hold for the Greek people. All of these events, influences and concerns bubble away behind this apparently idyllic scene, and they present the audience with plenty to think about. While democracy and Greece and theatre and Greece eventually surface, the play has echoes too of Greek myth — so that it is like watching something that is at once very old, yet timeless and contemporary. It's really rather good: a lovely piece of writing, the cast plays it well, the production is lovely to look at, and it is worth seeing. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 1, 2016 21:57:55 GMT
Parsley... Moves Like a Panther I can't agree with that "you've paid so do what you like" attitude: everyone else has paid too and there is no need to disturb them. I can't believe that the realization that a play is intolerable comes on that suddenly- surely it's possible to wait for a convenient break between scenes before leaving? I have sometimes made a judgement call and not returned after the interval- Elaine Paige's 'Anything Goes' springs to mind when I realized I was at a party that everyone else seemed to love whilst I was just getting increasingly irritated. I also left halfway through Judi Dench's 'The Seagull'- I don't think anything at all had happened by the time I left- dull, dull, dull! I also left the infamous Day Lewis 'Hamlet'- just before he did apparently. I usually always leave at the interval Very rarely during the show only in exceptional cases And even then during scene change To be honest The row can manage It's hardly a major drama I usually go alone Take no bags And agile and slender And so slim people don't even need to stand up to let me paSs |
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Post by peggs on Jun 1, 2016 22:33:50 GMT
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Post by lonlad on Jun 1, 2016 22:41:31 GMT
Very accurate and fair review though I suspect other critics may be kinder. Saw it tonight and my God, what an unholy mess -- Ben Miles does what he can to hold it together but none of the themes cohere and what Chile has to do with anything is anyone's guess - besides setting up one of the funniest onstage puns in some while. Too bad Campbell can't make the Greek characters in any way interesting: he includes them in the action and then makes them pawns within an increasingly preposterous plot.
The two little kids are quite sweet, though. Maybe one day they will be stars.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 22:42:21 GMT
4 stars from the Arts Desk
But some people are happy to wear Primark and give that 4 stars as well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 22:43:31 GMT
Very accurate and fair review though I suspect other critics may be kinder. Saw it tonight and my God, what an unholy mess -- Ben Miles does what he can to hold it together but none of the themes cohere and what Chile has to do with anything is anyone's guess - besides setting up one of the funniest onstage puns in some while. Too bad Campbell can't make the Greek characters in any way interesting: he includes them in the action and then makes them pawns within an increasingly preposterous plot. The two little kids are quite sweet, though. Maybe one day they will be stars. But they will put your play on at the NT If you are in bed with a director |
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Post by bellboard27 on Jun 1, 2016 22:44:25 GMT
Looks like Fiona Mountford will give it a positive review "a palpable hit" "a super ....new play", given her Twitter reaction
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 22:49:18 GMT
Looks like Fiona Mountford will give it a positive review "a palpable hit" "a super ....new play", given her Twitter reaction Look at Fiona Mountfords Twitter picture How many stars would you award that dress? |
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Post by foxa on Jun 1, 2016 22:57:30 GMT
I don't know why but this line from the Telegraph review made me laugh out loud: 'with sweet but uncomfortable-making support from a pair of child-actors in skimpy beach-wear.'
Whatever was going on?
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Post by lonlad on Jun 1, 2016 23:08:21 GMT
Mountford was chattering away with one of the creatives at the interval --- of course she also gave 4 stars to the abysmal SIDEWAYS which tells you everything you need to know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 23:09:30 GMT
I don't know why but this line from the Telegraph review made me laugh out loud: 'with sweet but uncomfortable-making support from a pair of child-actors in skimpy beach-wear.' Whatever was going on? 2 children dancing on stage In swimwear |
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Post by Steve on Jun 1, 2016 23:40:41 GMT
I don't know why but this line from the Telegraph review made me laugh out loud: 'with sweet but uncomfortable-making support from a pair of child-actors in skimpy beach-wear.' Whatever was going on? Two children, a boy and a girl, are in beach-wear, as are Pippa Nixon, Sam Crane and Ben Miles. Ben Miles' character takes them to the beach (offstage), brings them back, they join Ben Miles' Greek dance, as does everyone except Pippa Nixon. There was nothing disturbing. If this is what it takes to disturb, then all public beaches and swimming pools should be shut down instantly lol. |
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Post by showgirl on Jun 2, 2016 4:53:48 GMT
I hesitate to comment after the latest posts but I was also there last night and for all the faults others perceive, I did enjoy this and whilst the PN audience is untypical, the general reaction seemed positive. Yes, maybe the author should have written a different play or none and I could quibble with the plot in part but even if it is flawed, I had a good time overall and am sure plenty of others will, too. If that makes me a Philistine in the eyes of some here, so be it - but it seems to have worked in my favour if so!
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