Punchdrunk - Burnt City

[Deleted]

A New York Times reviewer has some provocative takes on this production compared to the treatment of war in other productions  Gift link so everyone can read the article.

Reviews from Phillips often include examining a production through the lens of equity and diversity more than those of other critics. I appreciate that effort though at times it can seem to relegate other critical lenses to the margins.

Excerpt:

"Roughly 90 minutes into the show, which can stretch as long as three hours, I was exasperated enough to head for the exit. I thought about the abhorrent kind of privilege that allows a person to see only parts of someone else’s war, to be able to look at just the sights that most pique one’s interest."

and the article's kicker:

"'The Burnt City' makes the war itself the main object of our attention and so is stuck negotiating the savagery of combat with the promise of immersive entertainment. In reality, if a city is burning, it doesn’t become an attraction."

[emmy]

Seeing this later today - was planning to go to Troy first, then Mycenae based on the recommendations above. Lots of posters have mentioned how to get from Mycenae to Troy, but not as far as I can see the other way round? Would appreciate any other advice, don't mind spoilers - will be my second punchdrunk show (after being recommended Sleep No More by people on here), so looking forward to it.

[Dave B]

A lot of £25 tickets for this over the coming weeks in Today Tix's Black Friday sale. Open now when I'm logged in to app or website.

[partytentdown]

I recently attended this again after my frustrating first visit early on, during which I missed half of the experience!

For £25 this time, and armed with knowledge from this thread and Facebook, I had a much better time. I still have no clue who anybody was or what was happening (though there is clearer signposting at the start, with photos of each actor/character stuck up in a 'family tree' by the box office - maybe I should have studied this harder) but I did find both areas and witnessed both finales, which are visually very striking but perhaps not as memorable as previous Punchdrunk events. It was much less busy this time which I appreciated (although presumably not great for ticket sales), meaning it was easier to see the smaller scenes, and there were fewer people charging around each time an actor moved which is always frustrating. It was still quite warm in there despite the winter weather! As others have noted above, one half of the venue is much more detailed than the other so I appreciated the chance to explore the parts I had missed the first time. Waiting to collect my bag at the end, there were still some people who sounded like they had missed one section though.

The show seems to have bedded in a bit - the starting 'set up' section seems to have changed (I vaguely remember something from my first visit about a rogue archaeologist that seems to have been cut - maybe Steffi can confirm?) and you are now led in through the bar area.

I would say that if you can get one of the £25-35 tickets that keep popping up on Today Tix etc, and read some of the top line 'hints' above about how to make the most of the experience, it's well worth a visit, especially now that it's less crowded. Hopefully the company has learned some valuable lessons from their first project in this permanent home that they will apply to future shows.

[samuelwhiskers]

Yeah, one of the conceits of the show is that it’s based around Heinrich Schliemann, who was an amateur archaeologist in the 19th century. He was obsessed with proving that the stories Homer told were based on true historical events, and dedicated his life to this goal. He ultimately discovered the remains of the city of Troy, which at that time was considered mythical. His “work” was and remains highly controversial and although the existence of Troy is now accepted, a lot of his claims in the historical validity on Homer as a source are not. (Trojan War: Ask Me Anything!)

The original entry to Burnt City was via a “museum” that purported to be Schliemann’s collection of objects found in the remains of Troy. (The real objects were very recently in a British Museum exhibition, which was quite a neat coincidence.)

People deep into Punchdrunk lore have come up with many theories about the significance and involvement of Schliemann on the show, and why he was used as a framing device.

[partytentdown]

Nov 25, 2022 13:15:34 GMT samuelwhiskers said:

Yeah, one of the conceits of the show is that it’s based around Heinrich Schliemann, who was an amateur archaeologist in the 19th century. He was obsessed with proving that the stories Homer told were based on true historical events, and dedicated his life to this goal. He ultimately discovered the remains of the city of Troy, which at that time was considered mythical. His “work” was and remains highly controversial and although the existence of Troy is now accepted, a lot of his claims in the historical validity on Homer as a source are not. (Trojan War: Ask Me Anything!)

The original entry to Burnt City was via a “museum” that purported to be Schliemann’s collection of objects found in the remains of Troy. (The real objects were very recently in a British Museum exhibition, which was quite a neat coincidence.)

People deep into Punchdrunk lore have come up with many theories about the significance and involvement of Schliemann on the show, and why he was used as a framing device.

I think I only heard him briefly mentioned during the pre-show bit so he doesn't seem to be very much part of the story anymore (unless I missed something major which is very very likely).

[samuelwhiskers]

There’s a fan theory that Hades might actually be Schliemann (which seems to be based on the fact the actor playing Hades originally did the welcome bit saying “welcome to my collection”) but in some very vague and nebulous way,

Much of Punchdrunk is vague and nebulous.

I don’t think you missed anything. I’m fairly certain Schliemann is not mentioned, other than in the original Musem entry. It’s a shame because it’s an interesting slant on the story: that we’re looking back on the war and the destruction of the city from the perspective of future archeology.

[cropley]

Rumours swirling that this is closing fairly soon.

[partytentdown]

Nov 25, 2022 15:49:44 GMT cropley said:

Rumours swirling that this is closing fairly soon.

Gosh, that must be worrying for the company, it's clear this had a lot of investment. Saying that, it was noticeably quieter when I went and I presume many people took advantage of the cheap tickets.

[mkb]

I have just revised my rating up from three stars to four based on a second visit this afternoon.

A lot of improvements have been made since my first visit early in the run. It's a lot slicker and seemed more detailed. The information now provided on the website meant that I was able to identify most of the major characters and understand what they were up to. It all makes sense now. The addition of smatterings of dialogue has helped enormously.

There are some tremendously emotional scenes, and one shocked me by reducing me to sudden and unexpected tears.

My first loop mainly followed Iphigenia, then a second tracked Hecuba, brilliantly played today by Emily Mytton. I finished with various key scenes on the final loop and chose the Troy finale today, as I saw Greece last time. It's annoying that Troy finishes a full 15 minutes before Greece and the black masks prevent you from travelling to experience that final quarter hour if you are in Troy.

Both finales are still rather underwhelming. The Troy one is merely the same bloody rave that occurs upstairs on the previous loops. Drowned Man did the finale so much better. The soundtrack on the Burnt City rave is nowhere near as loud or intense as the Sleep No More equivalent, which is a pity. I could only hear the bass, not feel it.

The cloakroom staff advised me to hold on to my jacket as it would be chilly inside. This was nonsense. I ended up with my jacket tied round my waist.

Playing card numbers on entry were meticulously checked so there appeared to be no scope for going in before your slot, except I was singled out in the bar and beckoned forward, much to my husband's chagrin, he having to wait his turn.

Programmes are £12.50. Ouch!

A rum punch was £9.50, which is a little more acceptable.

I'd recommend The Burnt City now, but you definitely have to gen up first on the story and characters.

[samuelwhiskers]

Woolwich Works (the arts centre next door) does the absolute finest rum punch I have ever tasted, and I’m saying that from a position of substantial experience. Not sure how much but I just checked their online menu and other cocktails are listed at £6.50.

[Dave B]

I went yesterday afternoon, I had a £25 ticket from that Today Tix offer I shared a while ago. I went on my own with an entry time of 13.50. I ended up getting there around 13.20 as the Elizabeth line was silly quick and they let me in straight away, didn't even ask about my time and I had my entry playing card and I was called into the show by 13.30.

This was my first Punchdrunk show and my first full on large immersive show.

Spoilers, I guess.

While I had skimmed this thread a while ago, I hadn't read any of the posts in detail and I hadn't done any reading or research beforehand. I have at most very passing familiarity with the story. The main things I knew were to follow a character (this is stressed in the entry museum briefing) and to ensure I saw both Troy and Mycenae.

So given a mask, I made my way in. Okay, first, the Punchdrunk white mask, I am a grown adult so I am capable of cognitive dissonance and recognising it. I hate the mask, I love the mask.

I hate the mask. I hate it because I wear glasses and despite their 'it will fit over your glasses' it just doesn't, at least not comfortably. So dark rooms and affected depth perception/spatial awareness when the mask can’t fit flush wasn’t great. Easy to see why people do bump into each other a bit. Then combined with the required (and provided if you need one unlike all the email warnings), covid mask - my glasses steam up a lot. About two hours into it, I found a dark corner to take a moment and take 'em off and clear the fog up and just take a moment (I was a bit disorientated and could not find the bar). Within 30 seconds a team member came over to check that I was okay and then to tell me that people who wear glasses are encouraged to just wear the masks on the top of their head and they don’t want anyone to stress about it!! This was great and made the last while a lot less of a struggle but I'd have really liked to have heard this two hours earlier on the way in!

I love the mask. There are big moments where the set pieces are taking place in the round and it's really quite something to suddenly realise that in the dim light - everyone surrounding the action is in this mask. It looks just great and it adds a huge amount to the atmosphere. I was sceptical about this going in but on this I was wrong, it was REALLY great.

So as I wandered initially, it seemed that characters were in the prep stage, there wasn’t much happening and I took the chance to explore a little bit. The set was fantastic and within seconds I didn’t know where I was, literally in the maze and metaphorically in the sense that wherever I was, it certainly wasn’t a warehouse in Woolwich anymore. Really impressed by this.

After a while wandering, action seemed to begin. I picked Agamemnon to follow but I didn’t know he was Agamemnon until much later on. So I followed him throughout while noticing so many other things going on and being really curious about them. So I saw a chunk of the set and some of the main setpieces. The killing and hanging of… someone (really impressive!) and then the long scenes with the cloak and the shower upstairs. I was totally lost on the silver mask and on what was actually going on most of the time so I gave up on the story and just tried to enjoy it - which I mainly did for the first while.

Then it started again and I realised it was looping. I see this mentioned a lot having read the thread last night but this is a HUGE issue for me, it’s not mentioned in the show! I’ll come back to this later, for now I realised what was happening and decided to look elsewhere for some action while they have a 5-10 minute slow start to the loop.

I found the museum curator in Troy and thought this might be interesting, so I followed him. He locked a small group of us in a room while the killing/hanging scene was taking place and split a rotten peach with a cast member I hadn’t seen at all and then opened a secret tunnel for people to crawl through. I stuck with him, he seemed to be almost an observer out of time, muttering about it being a tragedy or not and things like that. He led a small group to a whole area of the set I had not seen and a short time later, he stood on a level above the body of the killed woman and dropped a snow-like substance.

Then he sets off to another part of the set and I’m really interested in this and I want to follow him - but we run into three different groups at a crossroads and all are moving so fast that I’m lost (I’m not the only one!). I have no idea which way he went and of course I pick the wrong way and I find various other scenes and several characters that I haven’t seen before doing their thing. I’m pretty annoyed here, I’ve lost track of what I want to see and I have no idea what is going on with what I do find. After some wandering for a while (which I see some impressive fights and some acrobatics and the like all of which are great), I find him again dancing with yet another new cast member and I follow onwards but either I’ve been too long or the loop has sped up and I end up seeing the same (almost) loop ending from another part of the room and then realise that we are beginning again.

Okay, now I am frustrated and getting annoyed. There are a lot less people around. I find myself wondering how many loops there are and have I a) missed a finale or have I b) seen the finale twice and just not realised it was a finale? Does the show just loop and loop and you leave when you want to? I wander again for a little while before thinking I’ve had enough, I am bored and annoyed so I’m going home.

So I exit via the bar…. which is FULL and there is a cabaret/entertainer set going including a feckin narration of where the story is at and when people should go back in to see the finale. GRRRRR!! Had I known this I’d have popped in and out of the bar. The only thing mentioned before was that you could head out for a drink or a break or to take your mask off. The announcer literally says to see the finale, follow the gods back in now!

So everyone piles back in but again the cast move so fast that when we hit a crossroads, people are lost and I end up at the bottom of Mycenae and not at all where I wanted to be and not at all where the god I was following went. Again, GRRR.

Then it ends - with a dance circle and the cast wearing less clothes - and the curator from a distance drops - again - a snow-like substance over the woman at the centre of the circle now in some sort of cloak. He also feeds the cast member he danced with what I think was something from the peach I’d seen earlier. So CLEARLY a story here that I was interested in and had tried to follow that went somewhere but was unable to.

One person claps and we are herded to the exit.


Yikes.

I needed a briefing beforehand. A couple of pages with a story outline and a HOW THIS WORKS. Okay, you might think this is spoonfeeding but if you just book an immersive show about the siege of Troy - how do you know the show loops? How many times does the show loop? When do you know the loop ends? I’d have even settled or read this wikipedia entry first, then decided a story and followed that character. Before the show, we get a briefing; no talking, go alone (most people were really good at this) so there was plenty of time to say, today the show loops three times, plan accordingly etc.

Clearly a few people in the know, some people moving so fast behind characters that they may as well have walked in front of them. Clearly also a lot of people are bored or given up by the diminishing numbers and the heaving bar by the third loop.

I accept that ushers are not there as guides but when you have multiple cast passing through crossroads at a trot, there needs to be a clear way to follow them. Everyone is wearing a mask and so you have no idea who is in your group. This killed the smaller intimate experience for me. Being locked in a small room with less than a dozen people catching glimpses of a set piece through a window while something else happens was FANTASTIC. I loved this, it was way more and way better than I expected but then it just died on its arse because I couldn’t follow that story on. I, THIS MORNING, know that the museum curator is Hades because I looked up the cast list.

So I don’t feel like I got a story at all. I feel really frustrated by the whole thing. There are some exceptional moments and the dance & choreography & acrobatics are all superb. If the intent is for people to do homework and make a plan, I am all for that but I need to be told it in advance! If the intent is to discover layers through repeated visits, I’m okay with that too but I would need this to have been a full and worthwhile visit. I guess I could get a pen and paper and plot to be that person following a cast member so closely but that’s just not for me.

A rating, there are moments of 5 star exceptional, and I really appreciate that those moments can be seen/experienced in different ways in different loops and be just as good (if not better) but there are moments of sheer frustration/exasperation/stupidity that are 1 star poor and unthought through. Immersive is fine and good but for me this withheld too much (even the practical stuff, glasses/bar) and drastically undercut my experience.

So overall, 2 stars and nope - I would not go again. I was in at 13.30 and out at 16.45.

[samuelwhiskers]

Yes, I agree with this. It’s stupid the amount of research you have to do to be able to even understand how the show functions because who would even think they’d need to do that? I couldn’t find Mycenae my first trip at all even though I was looking for it.

Fwiw the show loops three times with the finale at the end of the third loop, though Hades and Persephone (who you saw - and I was most likely a pomegranate) only do the second and third loop. I wouldn’t know any of this if not for Punchdrunk Facebook groups.

[southstreet]

Just to clarify a few little bits, the rotten peach was actually a pomegranate and the two people in the room were Hades and Persephone, the only two characters in the show that don't actually loop. They might come across scenes twice, but they will interact with the scene differently.
The bar characters only guide you once in the whole show, right at the end, to tell you to follow the gods, so you end up in the big Greek finale, as some people lose track of time in the bar and then are annoyed that they didn't get a big finale moment to end their show.

Being someone who wants to 'understand' what I see usually, the one tip I give everyone going for their first Punchdrunk show is to not try and make sense of things, cos you can't and it'll frustrate you. For first timers/one time audience, it's all just an 'experience' to get disoriented and lost in, it doesn't give you a very clear linear narrative, especially as it's mainly dance based but that is kinda what they are going for. It then has the option for people that go again to delve a lot deeper and get a much better understanding of what is happening, who is who, etc.

I can totally understand how frustrating that can be but it's sort of part of their concept, which I personally love but I know what I'm letting myself in for. I think for most people that are repeat visitors, i.e. enjoyed the disorienting and weird experience the first time round and decide to come back, things click on the second visit as they then have a basic understanding of how the 'following' works, have seen some of the spaces, etc.

I think Punchdrunk have caught up with the fact of how confusing and frustating things can be for first times, so they have overviews of all the characters and how they connect on the website now, but even that is not obvious unless you know where to look.

I have friends that went once and have no interest in ever going again and I have friends that went once, liked the whole 'WTF is happening???' of it all, came back again and then really clicked and started to understand more of the story lines. Cos the narrative is there to find, but it's impossible to do so on your first visit I think, the first visit is all about being disoriented and to just go with the flow, hence them not explaining the looping, etc.
But again, can totally understand how it can be frustrating for a first timer, especially if they didn't have 'prep' from someone who has been before and know to expect to not properly understand what is happening.

[Dave B]

Thanks both for the pomegranate (d'oh, of course it was) and looping info and other clarifications

[philipp]

I hope you can help me with this:

I saw the show on 28 September and was completely overwhelmed by the detailed design of what seemed 40 or 50 rooms that seemed to have been left only moments ago by their occupants.

Yesterday, my wife went to see it - but there were no rooms at all, only spaces divided by hanged cloths, with a few objects strewn out here and there; and no actors. A huge hall and the gallery saw an impressive,dramatic dance performance.

As neither of us cared to much for the expressive dancing / writhing, she (and, by extension, I) was quite disappointed that what, for me, had been the main reason why it was such an impressive artistic experience had,. mysteriously, disappeared.

Have you experienced this? And, even more importantly, fo you know what happened to the rooms, and why?

[samuelwhiskers]

Yes!

There are two entirely different sections, Troy and Mycenae. They’re actually in two separate buildings (the sort of plastic hut bit where you enter is in between the two, the two big brick buildings on the left and right of the entrance are the performance areas) which are joined by a long corridor that can be tricky to find.

Each person is taken to either Troy or Mycenae at random at the start of the show.

You were in Troy, which comprises tons of tiny little rooms and represents Troy after the war, and covers the experiences of the Trojan survivors in the immediate aftermath of the war. Your wife was in Mycenae which is one massive room, plus mezzanine, and the action takes place right at the start of the war and broadly covers the story of Agamemnon’s sacrifice of Iphigenia which is the act that essentially brought the Greeks into the war.

It’s a major flaw in the production because people don’t know there are two separate areas and often can’t find the passage between them unless they’re actively looking or have been told where it is.

[philipp]

Wow - thank you for your quick reply and for clearing this up for us!
Yes, I agree that is a major flaw as it really diminished the experience for my wife. Apparently, I did not get to see the Mycenae part, which I am not sorry for as I enjoyed the other part thoroughly. However, it's a pity my wife (and probably many other visitors) did not get to explore what for me was the essence of the whole thing.
Thanks again for explaining it!

[alessia]

The first time I visited this (with friends who were already familiar) I spent most of my evening in Troy, because I didn't realise there was another bit! Then I met my friend at the bar and she took me to the Mycenae bit and explained lol. It was the previews time so they didn't explain anything at all at the beginning.

I went back a second time (with an offer) about a month ago, and did the opposite, and still didn't manage to see everything! I noticed that the second time there was much more information that was given at the start, for instance the visual of the different characters on the wall. That wasn't there at the start of the run.

[Steve]

I really enjoyed this tonight, having a number of intense and dramatic experiences, but it really is pot luck what happens to you, so I suppose I got lucky, and I'm thankful.

Spoilers follow. . .

I mostly have to thank Dave B, who highlighted the £25 offer that allowed advance booking of tickets.

I also have to thank the posters above, who explained there are two spaces, Troy and Mycenae. This was not actually information I could make use of, as I'm really bad at geography without my phone, but it was simply a useful thing to know to contextualise my experiences lol.

My approach was the same as it always is with Punchdrunk, which is just to follow drama. I look for actors who are the most worked up emotionally and follow them lol.

Prior to entering, I had intended to go to Troy first, but our group was told to go to Mycenae, through the left door, so I did.

I didn't regret this, as the first scene I saw was Iphigenia being celebrated before being led to the slaughter, a scene I am familiar with from multiple plays. So I followed her until her untimely end, then followed her murderer, Agamemnon.

I wanted to follow Agamemnon to see him get his, but I lost him in the throng, so I followed a flame-haired woman instead, who looked really really upset, and she went to a lonely room where she bashed her chest viciously. I felt myself welling up, without really knowing why, just that she obviously wanted revenge, as all the Greeks do. I realised I was following Hecuba, when she triumphantly and shockingly gouged out Polymestor's eyes. Well, I knew she was gonna do something terrible, as Fania Grigoriou, who played her, is a really good actor, who makes you feel exactly what she's feeling. I continued to follow her to witness whether she suffered pangs of regret, but lost her.

Now a fellow wearing a Damian Hurst style diamond mask walks by, so I figure he's up to something, and then it turns out he has a 100 foot train of robes. I've refound Agamemnon, so I follow him. Clytemnestra starts making love to him, accompanied by a bald eunuch (or so I thought). But holy crap, when the eunuch and Clytemnestra murder Agamemnon, the eunuch pulls off his whole face (mask lol) and it turns out he's Aegisthus!

So now I want to know more about the creepy horror eunuch mask that Aegisthus is wearing. He hides it in a chest under a bed that I thought belonged to Hecuba (these beds are multipurpose lol).

Then we go back in time and I continue to follow Aegisthus. At one point, he puts out his hand, and I hesitate. But noone else takes it, and he persists, so I take it, and he leads me into a room alone and locks the door. I think I'm going to be killed (he's got a horror mask in his toolkit, after all). Instead, through eye and hand gestures, he gains my permission to remove my mask and motions for me to sit on a box. He then sits on the floor and slowly but dramatically opens a chest, the contents of which I can't see from my position. It feels like the sinister chest, that you absolutely must not open, from the film noir "Kiss me Deadly," lol, and then the lights go off, and back on, and flicker on and off like the lights in a Japanese horror movie. Aegisthus removes a crown from the chest, and puts it on in the flickering crepuscular darkness: he will be King, and only I know this lol!

When the lights come back on properly, and Aegisthus retrieves my mask to put it back on, suddenly he's the rather terrific dramatic actor, Andrea Carruciu, but once he puts the mask on me, he's Aegisthus again.

Anyhow, he leads me to discover his world of plotting with Clytemnestra, which involves rubbing animal entrails all over themselves, with some modern dance on the side. When the eunuch mask goes on for the kill, and Harold Pinter like, I've explored the past of events I've already witnessed, I leave them to go about their bloody business.

I then follow all and sundry random characters till the climax, which involves naked people on stairs, and Clytemnestra covered in ashes.

What I love about the show is how the music propels and accentuates a constant circular and sinister flow of human machinations, how actors imbue those propulsive machinations with genuine feeling, how that feeling penetrates your literal, and metaphorical, mask to make you feel what such grand emotions might feel like, and how grand events (horrifying murders and their causes) and intimate events (Hecuba ceaselessly pounding her own chest; Aegisthus and I in a room alone contemplating his future crown) combine to create drama, and life.

All in all, not easy to follow, but the strangeness and emotional involvement, of being caught up in events which could lead almost anywhere, make this a unique and potentially wonderful show. If you're lucky.

4 and a half stars from me.

[digne]

Nov 25, 2022 15:59:38 GMT partytentdown said:

Nov 25, 2022 15:49:44 GMT cropley said:

Rumours swirling that this is closing fairly soon.

Gosh, that must be worrying for the company, it's clear this had a lot of investment. Saying that, it was noticeably quieter when I went and I presume many people took advantage of the cheap tickets.

I got an email that says they've extended until September due to phenomenal demand, so that seems to hopefully be off the table for now.

[digne]

Closing September 24, what a bummer. I have to get a few more visits in.

[mkb]

Great pity, but I can't see how they are going to make that venue work when the outside temperature is warm, because inside is like a sauna and every show gets cut short. Without investment in air conditioning, it's just not suitable. Does anyone know if Punchdrunk plan a new show or are abandoning that site?

[partytentdown]

Interesting the closing statement says this is likely to be their last masked show.

[Steffi]

Jun 22, 2023 11:25:55 GMT mkb said:

Great pity, but I can't see how they are going to make that venue work when the outside temperature is warm, because inside is like a sauna and every show gets cut short. Without investment in air conditioning, it's just not suitable. Does anyone know if Punchdrunk plan a new show or are abandoning that site?

From the press release:

Artistic Director, Felix Barrett said: “Creating The Burnt City in the midst of a pandemic was one of the most incredible feats our team has achieved. We couldn’t be prouder of this show and everyone who brought our world of gods and mortals to life. The Burnt City has propelled us forwards and we want to keep that momentum, making the most of our new home in Woolwich. It’s the first time we have had a long-term space to call our own, so these extraordinary buildings are the perfect place to showcase our ideas quickly without needing to wait years for the right venue to come along. We’re fairly sure that The Burnt City will be the last new mask show the company makes, and what comes next will be different and unlike anything we have done before. We cannot wait to unleash these new ideas and in the meantime, we hope that everyone will make the most of our precious last months of The Burnt City!”