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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 23:18:48 GMT
I think you undermined your whole point there with your "no-show-boe" comment on the first line. Alfie is well known for throwing his toys if he missed a note in the first act and refusing to go on in the second. If he's not in the right spiritual mood he might not go on at all. Neither Jessie or Liza are like that. Thank you for explaining what that meant as I didn't understand the reference. I don't think medical reasons must be detailed. I do think acknowledging a frequent and long-term absence of a show's star with either "previous commitments" or "doctor's orders" are completely fair. We'll have to agree to disagree. |
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Post by shadypines on Mar 5, 2022 23:30:09 GMT
Alfie is well known for throwing his toys if he missed a note in the first act and refusing to go on in the second. If he's not in the right spiritual mood he might not go on at all. Neither Jessie or Liza are like that. Thank you for explaining what that meant as I didn't understand the reference. I don't think medical reasons must be detailed. I do think acknowledging a frequent and long-term absence of a show's star with either "previous commitments" or "doctor's orders" are completely fair. We'll have to agree to disagree. I think there are 2 points here. A) missing shows B) no announcement A - given these are Olivier voting performances, these ladies aren't out because they don't fancy it. They certainly aren't missing shows so they can campaign for a potential film nomination. It's evidently a health issue. B - should producers comment on an actors health? Actor A might be fine disclosing their illness and Actor B might not. It's unprofessional to have different rules for different cast members, and also invites more speculation of Actor B in the absence of a statement. It's unrealistic to assume the studio didn't know Chadwick Boseman was unwell prior to his death, but they obviously didn't make a statement about BP2 until after the fact... it's called being professional and considerate. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 23:41:42 GMT
I think you undermined your whole point there with your "no-show-boe" comment on the first line. Alfie is well known for throwing his toys if he missed a note in the first act and refusing to go on in the second. If he's not in the right spiritual mood he might not go on at all. Neither Jessie or Liza are like that. Oh OK, that clears that up then. 😬 |
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Post by jaggy on Mar 5, 2022 23:57:33 GMT
And if I'm totally honest, I'm shocked that you seem to not be able to empathise with the people who are upset or have an opinion that differs from yours. You bring up fine print, terms and conditions, "obligations" as though that's the only reason producers should have any respect for their paying audience members. Decency shouldn't only be given if it's in a terms of service. I don't think it's that people don't empathise, as I'm sure everyone here has been in a situation at some point where the actor they really wanted to see was out the day they saw a show, and know how upsetting it is. But we can still be rational about it and understand it's all part and parcel of going to see live theatre. I'm not sure what more the producers can do. We don't know why she's not able to perform, but if it's on doctor's orders, the producers maybe don't know day-to-day if she will. Making an announcement doesn't make any difference, as as with every West End show, refunds are never given when a cast member is out. And her run is sold out, which also means exchanges would not even be possible. Honestly, my comment about empathy was directedly towards this poster and no one else. Using the terms and conditions as a way to justify producers not informing audiences irked me. Overall the poster seemed unwilling to agree with anything the other posters have said. I think points have been made from both sides that are true. Yes, you're totally right about the producers being unable to do as much if the situation is a day-to-day issue. However, if that is the case they could just say. We know refunds won't be given and exchanges would be useless. So, if the producers know something they can just spill because financially they're safe (which is what they care most about anyway). That way if people were really upset about not seeing Buckley and would rather skip the performance they could re-sell their ticket and not go. Another option is to re-sell their (potentially) expensive ticket and book a cheaper one for the replacement cast. If they don't know whether Buckley is performing that night until they're at the theatre or when the show begins then both those options become impossible. I'm not saying this is something I would do but everyone is different. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 0:00:04 GMT
Tbfl, when Glenn Close missed those performances in SUNSET and the producers refused refunds, regardless of what is in the small ‘fine print’ or not, do you honestly think that is sincere and ethical commercial behaviour? If its in the small print and you buy a ticket regardless, sincere abd ethical really dont come into it. From the producers side, i wouldnt want to pay refunds if my star is out. It also opens up the hassle of people possibly wanting to rebook another date, trying to accommodate them etc. If it was a 1 man show, sure I'd expect a refund, but if i bought a ticket for a show that went ahead... That's why when you receive your tickets, it just has the show name and no mention of casting on it. Would it be nice if they did refunds? Of course it would, but it makes little sense from a business perspective. There have been instances when it happens, such as when La Cage had all its casting issues etc but you take your chances when you buy a ticket. |
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Post by sfsusan on Mar 6, 2022 0:08:38 GMT
I swear if the lights went down and they performed “Oklahoma”, All I can think of now is Eddie Redmayne singing 'Poor Judd is Dead'. Or the cast doing 'Oklahoma' in their 'Cabaret' costumes. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 0:28:01 GMT
jaggy Its not that i dont empathise, but I'm a realist and know that these things happen. This has always been the policy and i dont see it changing anytime soon.I dont have to agree with you when i don't think your comments are realistic. You are not entitled to anything, you are not owed an explanation, no one is going to contact you to see if you're ok. It comes back to a policy that you signed up for, but are now complaining about. At the end of the day, regardless of who was or wasnt on stage, it really isnt that big a deal. Last year i lost £3,000 on a holiday i booked in 2020. I had saved a very long time for that trip. That i was angry about, a theatre ticket, not so much. Why do you so desperately need this notification from the producers. It really does baffle me.
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Post by sfsusan on Mar 6, 2022 0:35:52 GMT
Last year i lost £3,000 on a holiday i booked in 2020. I had saved a very long time for that trip. That i was angry about, a theatre ticket, not so much. So you believe in the concept that some things could be handled differently (dare I say, more fairly), just in a different context with a different amount of money at stake? |
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Post by jaggy on Mar 6, 2022 2:22:00 GMT
jaggy Its not that i dont empathise, but I'm a realist and know that these things happen. This has always been the policy and i dont see it changing anytime soon.I dont have to agree with you when i don't think your comments are realistic. You are not entitled to anything, you are not owed an explanation, no one is going to contact you to see if you're ok. It comes back to a policy that you signed up for, but are now complaining about. At the end of the day, regardless of who was or wasnt on stage, it really isnt that big a deal. Last year i lost £3,000 on a holiday i booked in 2020. I had saved a very long time for that trip. That i was angry about, a theatre ticket, not so much. Why do you so desperately need this notification from the producers. It really does baffle me. I don't think you're the only "realist" here. I'm sure other users are realistic about the situation but are also advocating for transparency. I believe such an outlook and opinion can coexist. I also think you're very confused. I am not that angry about this situation even though you claim I am. This has not personally affected me. I saw Jessie twice in the show. I am content. My posts have been to voice and explain my opinions. I haven't even complained about the ticket policy or agreed with anyone who has. I haven't demanded producers give refunds or exchanges. I merely believe the policy can stay intact and audiences be notified. If that was the case then ticket buyers could re-sell their tickets; if they wish to do so. I am sorry to hear about your holiday. However, such reactions are relative. Someone else may not have been angry about the holiday, the same way you're not angry about the theatre ticket. Just because you're fine with it doesn't mean the rest of us have to be and vice versa. "No one is going to contact you to see if you're ok"... "desperately need this notification"... I am baffled as to why you keep creating this narrative that I am so outraged especially as my initial post had no complaints about the ticket policy and was intended to defend Buckley and other actors who may be in a similar situation... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 5:57:19 GMT
Last year i lost £3,000 on a holiday i booked in 2020. I had saved a very long time for that trip. That i was angry about, a theatre ticket, not so much. So you believe in the concept that some things could be handled differently (dare I say, more fairly), just in a different context with a different amount of money at stake? If you have a £250 theatre ticket and a certain performer is off, you can still go to the theatre. For my £3000, I didn't go anywhere or get anything.
I've never said things can't be handled differently, of course they can.
Why not start a petition or do something that might change the situation. Ask AGT or LWTheatres to consider a refund policy review. Or maybe don't buy something if you don't like the conditions it come with.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 6:25:08 GMT
I also think you're very confused. I am not that angry about this situation even though you claim I am. At no point in my response, did I claim you were angry. Although your original message was referring to me, my response was more about the thread as a whole, and the amount of posts from people who expect something they're never going to get. Yes, you're totally right about the producers being unable to do as much if the situation is a day-to-day issue. However, if that is the case they could just say. What is it you would expect them to say? Jessie Buckley is going to be in and out but we don't know when that will be? We know refunds won't be given and exchanges would be useless. So, if the producers know something they can just spill because financially they're safe So really you just want the gossip of whats going on behind the scenes? |
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Post by graham on Mar 6, 2022 7:20:17 GMT
I was at the matinee yesterday, and frankly I didn't care we had missing cast members. The food and drink was a bit chaotic, but the show itself was funny, and chilling and a superb experience with great performances by all.
Putting the cast board by the champagne bar was a bit daft, as it was only visible for those buying champagne or on leaving the building.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 6, 2022 7:24:16 GMT
I was at the matinee yesterday, and frankly I didn't care we had missing cast members. The food and drink was a bit chaotic, but the show itself was funny, and chilling and a superb experience with great performances by all. Putting the cast board by the champagne bar was a bit daft, as it was only visible for those buying champagne or on leaving the building. You paid for a charcuterie platter, you GOT a charcuterie platter… check the T&C’s! 😉😋 |
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Post by danb on Mar 6, 2022 8:20:15 GMT
I’m afraid that one can only show compassion for things that they are aware of. You can’t be compassionate about ‘a mystery’ absence. She could have just lost her oyster card and be mugging everyone off. If something unpleasant or unthinkable has happened to the poor girl the producers need to say something so that everyone stops prying and theorising. I'll email the producers tomorrow. As soon as they hear there's a small bunch of people on Theatre Board 'prying and theorising', they'll be sure to give answers. 🤣 Way to miss the point for a smartass condescending snark … The fact is that theatre is wayyy behind other ‘service’ industries in terms of their t&c’s and the expectations that people ‘buying’ things have of their consumer rights. You can state the t&c’s til you are blue in the face tbfl, but do you read the t&c’s of every product you purchase? There is a large proponent of impulse buying and tourist trade who will get drawn in by a name, whether they get it or not. There are many people who’s every waking moment is NOT consumed by theatre so have no need to know. At the end of the day we’ll all have our own take on it, but I feel that lots of people are just jumping on the ‘you’re there to watch the show not the performer’ bandwagon. If you don’t have a soul,a heart or a joyful sense of expectation then its fine to ‘just watch the show’. But all shows are not packaged or sold as ‘just the show’. They work their social media/PR/tv & radio appearances to build up expectation because ‘x’ is in it. When the audience turn up and ‘x’ isn’t there because it is their ‘book/make up/movie/newtvshow launch/oscarsparty’ (that has been planned in for months, unannounced) they are made to feel like a fool because its ‘their own fault for not reading the T&C’s’? I’m sorry but I’m calling bullsh*t on this because it is plain, unadulterated deception. Medical & illness call outs are not the same. People get ill. But knowing that you are selling your show on a name, and not advertising dates you know that they are off is just greed & capitalism at it’s worst. In my humble opinion obviously. |
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Post by shady23 on Mar 6, 2022 8:31:37 GMT
I am confused by people saying they didn't realise an actor was off.
Don't people look at the cast board anymore? I don't think a production is obliged to inform an audience any more than that.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 6, 2022 9:21:43 GMT
Also on the subject of T&C’s. When you buy your new top, take it home, decide you hate it and march it back to the store for your refund, the store is within its T&C’s (I.e the law) to tell you to do one, unless there’s something wrong with it. However 99% of places will happily give you your money back because it’s become the expected norm, it’s not unreasonable and above all else they want you to be happy and shop again. It’s called going above and beyond what you have to do. I’m sure we all do that every day at work don’t we. Don’t we?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2022 9:28:07 GMT
I was at the matinee yesterday, and frankly I didn't care we had missing cast members. The food and drink was a bit chaotic, but the show itself was funny, and chilling and a superb experience with great performances by all. Putting the cast board by the champagne bar was a bit daft, as it was only visible for those buying champagne or on leaving the building. You paid for a charcuterie platter, you GOT a charcuterie platter… check the T&C’s! 😉😋 See, who says you cant learn new things on this board! 😄 |
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Post by kathryn on Mar 6, 2022 9:34:31 GMT
I am confused by people saying they didn't realise an actor was off. Don't people look at the cast board anymore? I don't think a production is obliged to inform an audience any more than that. The cast board that is normally on an obscure wall somewhere that you’d have to know the location of to find, and these days is often one of those electronic billboards that rotates announcements? Yeah, most people will miss it as they are being herded to their seat. |
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Post by danb on Mar 6, 2022 9:42:03 GMT
I am confused by people saying they didn't realise an actor was off. Don't people look at the cast board anymore? I don't think a production is obliged to inform an audience any more than that. The cast board that is normally on an obscure wall somewhere that you’d have to know the location of to find, and these days is often one of those electronic billboards that rotates announcements? Yeah, most people will miss it as they are being herded to their seat. …and on the day call-outs are not the same as unadvertised absences. |
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Post by inthenose on Mar 6, 2022 9:42:22 GMT
Incidentally, if you book with a credit card, you could always withhold payment by initiating a chargeback on the transaction under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. The ticket must've cost over £100, and the production company has the right to dispute it, but it's another option.
Often credit card companies will side with the consumer regards of "small print", if there is room for doubt or it is in their interest to do so - and they may not dispute at all.
If you can back up your claim with proof of a previous refund request - ideally in writing (email will do) in advance of the show clearly stating your reasons then your case would be even stronger, though this is not always possible with "unannounced" absences.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 6, 2022 9:43:04 GMT
I know they’re never going to offer refunds, despite the fact that they could easily re-sell the tickets and the number of requests for them would be minimal but wouldn’t it be nice if they gave everyone a drinks voucher and one of those nice programmes as compo for a name above the title not showing up? The drinks cost them pennies and the supposed value of a programme is £15, but probably costs cost about £3 I imagine. A gesture of good will and an apology. Instead of just saying absolutely nothing which is just rude.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Mar 6, 2022 9:45:53 GMT
If they announced it on the tannoy, there would bound to be an audible groan.
Has Redmayne missed a show?
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Post by crowblack on Mar 6, 2022 9:47:44 GMT
It's not very respectful to the star herself if her absence is treated by the production as unimportant and unremarkable.
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Post by inthenose on Mar 6, 2022 9:56:50 GMT
I am confused by people saying they didn't realise an actor was off. Don't people look at the cast board anymore? I don't think a production is obliged to inform an audience any more than that. At Cabaret, there is one small A4 notice posted on a wall next to the very busy champagne bar. There are no announcements, no clear signage if you use certain entrances and you wouldn't know the sign was there unless you went specifically to look for it. Other theatres have a variety of solutions - Only Fools have an A4 poster on the main staircases/hallways at eye level plus an announcement. Phantom has a large clear sign listing the full company in the foyer which will perform at that show, as do Wicked, Matilda, Les Mis and practically every other show I've seen in recent years. Les Mis also has an A4 sheet at the box office which details who is covering what in larger roles. It is obvious to me that the show doesn't want to advertise absence of cast as it is being sold on its stars. If they can get away with obfuscation they will, because it will cause them fewer problems than an announcement of "at this performance of Cabaret, the role of Sally Bowles will be played by Ms. Emily Benjamin". This often leads to groans (or even boos) and requests for refunds/exchanged at the interval. It is just an intentional lack of transparency and I am astonished people who supposedly love theatre are defending such an anti-consumer practice. Some of the posts defending this almost seem to be written by employees of the producers themselves. Very curious. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 6, 2022 9:59:06 GMT
I wonder if the famous ATG T&C’s have ever been tested for fairness? Just because ATG write it, doesn’t make it legal. If the T&C’s are fundamentally unfair to the consumer then they could be told to change them.
Do we have any experts in consumer law on the forum??
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