Sunset Boulevard

[theatreian]

Just found a clip of Dame Shirley:



and another of Barbra:

[steve10086]

Not a Streisand fan, but using AIWNSG as the opening number of her comeback concert was perfect, and even I get chills.

[theatreian]

Jan 19, 2021 19:31:52 GMT steve10086 said:

but using AIWNSG as the opening number of her comeback concert was perfect, and even I get chills.

Yes I remember that night in London. The atmosphere was electric. An icon you never thought you would see. I don't think i have ever been at anything with so many standing ovations. I was there the night Prince Charles was. He was sitting by Joan Collins and Priscilla Presley. What a night.

[theatreian]

On the Norma theme, just found a clip of my favourite Norma: Petula Clark, recorded when she was performing it in London, though this was on a tv show. For me she always acted it the best and in the mid 90's her vocals were amazing.

[BurlyBeaR]

Odd accent from Petula though.

[musicalmarge]

I actually think Norma is a masterclass in acting in musical theatre. Amazing how different all these sensational performers are and many of them just have that missing notch. All of them including Ria and Glen and Petula above are all great. But who IS NORMA? Who was the best actor AND best singer AND best person for the ego and sensitivity of the role?

Elaine Paige sang is amazingly but was OTT, Betty Buckley was a super singer actress but a tad hard, Ria (my least favourite too pitchy and cruise ship), Patti sang the songs gloriously and had a real bitchy American feel about her Norma but she’s not the best person for acting in song,

Who else?? I suppose Glen is the Norma but I do feel too old sadly.

[saral]

Jan 19, 2021 23:15:45 GMT theatreian said:

On the Norma theme, just found a clip of my favourite Norma: Petula Clark, recorded when she was performing it in London, though this was on a tv show. For me she always acted it the best and in the mid 90's her vocals were amazing.

I remember seeing this on TV and thinking she wasn't very good, maybe as I'd listened to Patti too many times on the CD and seen Betty twice...but when I went to see it she was surprisingly good

[Someone in a tree]

Over the years I've seen

Glen, Faith, Petula, Betty x 2 and Pattie.

Pattie was very good but Betty was astounding

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2021 17:59:06 GMT Someone in a tree said:

Over the years I've seen

Glen, Faith, Petula, Betty x 2 and Pattie.

Pattie was very good but Betty was astounding

I agree Betty was truly outstanding at the Adelphi. Singing and acting gold. 

[danb]

I think Rita Moreno was the only Norma I saw without any redeeming features. Ria was brassy and shallow but not awful. I hated Petula Clarks take on it but it was a whole performance and clearly very thought out & intentional. Kathryn Evans was ace in an underpowered production. Faith Brown was ok but her voice was tired by the end. U/S Jill Martin was great and took seconds for you to realise that you weren’t missing anything. Glenn’s recording is my favourite, as her voice was just about enough but the acting elevated everything. But Elaine was our first and best, ending up in excellent house seats because of a BO cock up, and not knowing anything of the production other than Elaine Paige was in it. Those strings and those palm tree projections...gorgeous. Even Barrowman was still reigned in. Fab.

[theatreian]

Jan 20, 2021 18:01:14 GMT @sharpe12 said:

I agree Betty was truly outstanding at the Adelphi. Singing and acting gold. 

It's odd isn't it how people can see things so different. Between myself and my partner we saw pretty much all the Norma's. Patti, betty, Elaine, Petula, faith and Glenn. Although I didn't see Betty , my partner said she was the worst Norma he has seen. I found a clip of her in 1995 at the Adelphi. It seems the choreography altered and I don't like her accent, but I didn't see her so can't judge. Petula has played the part the most as she also did an  extensive tour in the US.

SUNSET BOULEVARD

November 17, 1998--April 9, 2000, US Tour

January 9, 1996--April 5, 1997, Adelphi Theatre, West End, London, UK

September 2, 1995--October 14, 1995, Adelphi Theatre, West End, London, UK

(Six-week run, subbing for Elaine Paige)

Without a rest from her gruelling Blood Brothers tour in the USA, Petula was asked to play Norma Desmond in Andrew Loyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard in London's West End. Petula thought she wouldn't be right for the part, but fortunately Trevor Nunn was able to convince her that she'd be "marvellous." Trevor honoured Petula at a "This Is Your Life" taping (Petula's third) by stating unequivocally, "Petula is the real thing!"

Petula performed in Sunset for what everyone believed would be the final time before a packed house in London's West End on April 5, 1997.

The following year, Petula (missing "Norma") embarked on an 18 month U.S. tour and became the longest running Norma to date.

www.petulaclark.net/theatre/sunsettourjournal.html

[steve10086]

Jan 20, 2021 22:57:31 GMT theatreian said:

Jan 20, 2021 18:01:14 GMT @sharpe12 said:

I agree Betty was truly outstanding at the Adelphi. Singing and acting gold. 

It's odd isn't it how people can see things so different. Between myself and my partner we saw pretty much all the Norma's. Patti, betty, Elaine, Petula, faith and Glenn. Although I didn't see Betty , my partner said she was the worst Norma he has seen. I found a clip of her in 1995 at the Adelphi. It seems the choreography altered and I don't like her accent, but I didn't see her so can't judge. Petula has played the part the most as she also did an  extensive tour in the US.

SUNSET BOULEVARD

November 17, 1998--April 9, 2000, US Tour

January 9, 1996--April 5, 1997, Adelphi Theatre, West End, London, UK

September 2, 1995--October 14, 1995, Adelphi Theatre, West End, London, UK

(Six-week run, subbing for Elaine Paige)

Without a rest from her gruelling Blood Brothers tour in the USA, Petula was asked to play Norma Desmond in Andrew Loyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard in London's West End. Petula thought she wouldn't be right for the part, but fortunately Trevor Nunn was able to convince her that she'd be "marvellous." Trevor honoured Petula at a "This Is Your Life" taping (Petula's third) by stating unequivocally, "Petula is the real thing!"

Petula performed in Sunset for what everyone believed would be the final time before a packed house in London's West End on April 5, 1997.

The following year, Petula (missing "Norma") embarked on an 18 month U.S. tour and became the longest running Norma to date.

www.petulaclark.net/theatre/sunsettourjournal.html

I started watching that clip assuming you’d included a video of Petula Clark. As it started I thought “wow, was Clark actually not as bad as I thought?!” then I realised it was Buckley

The first time I saw Clark play Norma, and she was croaking her way through “Surrender” I assumed she was “acting” croaky and frail. It soon became clear that’s just how she actually was, and that apart from Rita Moreno, she was the worst Norma in the original London production.

[theatreian]

Jan 20, 2021 23:33:29 GMT steve10086 said:

The first time I saw Clark play Norma, and she was croaking her way through “Surrender” I assumed she was “acting” croaky and frail. It soon became clear that’s just how she actually was, and that apart from Rita Moreno, she was the worst Norma in the original London production.

As I said everyone can see thigs so differently. I saw Petula many times in her run and never saw a bad performance. She was and is in my mind the best Norma I have seen. Glenn acted it very well but didn't have the vocal. The fact that Petula remains the longest running Norma must show something as I don't think if she was that bad she would have been allowed to play the role so much.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2021 9:58:06 GMT theatreian said:

Jan 20, 2021 23:33:29 GMT steve10086 said:

The first time I saw Clark play Norma, and she was croaking her way through “Surrender” I assumed she was “acting” croaky and frail. It soon became clear that’s just how she actually was, and that apart from Rita Moreno, she was the worst Norma in the original London production.

As I said everyone can see thigs so differently. I saw Petula many times in her run and never saw a bad performance. She was and is in my mind the best Norma I have seen. Glenn acted it very well but didn't have the vocal. The fact that Petula remains the longest running Norma must show something as I don't think if she was that bad she would have been allowed to play the role so much.

I agree with you, it really is odd how people see things so differently. But fascinating also. "Nunn's Normas" provoke such strong feeling and have been fiercely debated on forums such as this for years! I guess ultimately it comes down to people's personal preferences and what is the most pleasing vocal type to everyone's ear. And of course the ongoing how important is vocal vs acting ability in this role debate. 

Got me thinking - is this debate testimony to what an incredible role Norma Desmond is? Surely in the history of musical theatre it is one of the best. She is SUCH a character, in one of ALW's most flawless musicals, with of course two of his best songs. And certainly I have been fascinated by all the Normas I have seen (though like everyone have my own strong preferences).

Is this the same for Christine in Phantom for example? I must have seen Phantom 10+ times over the years and I honestly couldn't name most of the Christines I have seen other than Katie Hall who was sensational. They were all wonderful but they were also (to me) all very similar. Perhaps I say this as I am a much bigger Sunset than Phantom fan, and a Phantom fan will tell me different. 

Anyway, sadly I never saw Petula Clark. I saw Patti, EP and Betty Buckley. Though have never been particularly moved by the Petula clips I have seen! Subsequently saw Faith Brown on tour, Kathryn Evans in the scaled down but still very enjoyable CRH version and then Glenn and Ria more recently. 

But yeah, there really is something about Norma. And I don't doubt this debate will go on and on :-) 

[theatreian]

I think the thing with Petula and Norma is and she is probably alone in this is she started out as a film actress in the golden age of Hollywood before she had a success with singing. She worked in the golden era of Hollywood and understood the studio system. Her first film (out of 30) was in 1944!
I agree though that the role of Norma is one of the finest female roles in Musical theatre.

[robertb213]

Jan 21, 2021 12:25:02 GMT @sharpe12 said:

Jan 21, 2021 9:58:06 GMT theatreian said:

As I said everyone can see thigs so differently. I saw Petula many times in her run and never saw a bad performance. She was and is in my mind the best Norma I have seen. Glenn acted it very well but didn't have the vocal. The fact that Petula remains the longest running Norma must show something as I don't think if she was that bad she would have been allowed to play the role so much.

I agree with you, it really is odd how people see things so differently. But fascinating also. "Nunn's Normas" provoke such strong feeling and have been fiercely debated on forums such as this for years! I guess ultimately it comes down to people's personal preferences and what is the most pleasing vocal type to everyone's ear. And of course the ongoing how important is vocal vs acting ability in this role debate. 

Got me thinking - is this debate testimony to what an incredible role Norma Desmond is? Surely in the history of musical theatre it is one of the best. She is SUCH a character, in one of ALW's most flawless musicals, with of course two of his best songs. And certainly I have been fascinated by all the Normas I have seen (though like everyone have my own strong preferences).

Is this the same for Christine in Phantom for example? I must have seen Phantom 10+ times over the years and I honestly couldn't name most of the Christines I have seen other than Katie Hall who was sensational. They were all wonderful but they were also (to me) all very similar. Perhaps I say this as I am a much bigger Sunset than Phantom fan, and a Phantom fan will tell me different. 

Anyway, sadly I never saw Petula Clark. I saw Patti, EP and Betty Buckley. Though have never been particularly moved by the Petula clips I have seen! Subsequently saw Faith Brown on tour, Kathryn Evans in the scaled down but still very enjoyable CRH version and then Glenn and Ria more recently. 

But yeah, there really is something about Norma. And I don't doubt this debate will go on and on :-) 

It is such a great role and a great musical. I've got full recordings of all of the major Normas (thank you internet) and to be honest I can watch any one of them, they all bring different things to their performances, be it in vocals or in acting. My heart still goes to Glenn most of all I think. And Ria is my least favourite but that's just personal preference, I'm just not keen on her voice.

[steve10086]

Jan 21, 2021 9:58:06 GMT theatreian said:

Jan 20, 2021 23:33:29 GMT steve10086 said:

The first time I saw Clark play Norma, and she was croaking her way through “Surrender” I assumed she was “acting” croaky and frail. It soon became clear that’s just how she actually was, and that apart from Rita Moreno, she was the worst Norma in the original London production.

As I said everyone can see thigs so differently. I saw Petula many times in her run and never saw a bad performance. She was and is in my mind the best Norma I have seen. Glenn acted it very well but didn't have the vocal. The fact that Petula remains the longest running Norma must show something as I don't think if she was that bad she would have been allowed to play the role so much.

I saw Clark a number of times too, though saw Sunset in the West End much less frequently during her time as the performance didn’t live up to the previous stars for me.

I don’t know if LuPone/Buckley have done U.S. tours (or would have at that stage in their career), but I can see why Clark might have been more amenable to that idea. I can also see why her name would be attractive to the producers. More so than her performance I think.

[saral]

Jan 21, 2021 14:01:11 GMT steve10086 said:

Jan 21, 2021 9:58:06 GMT theatreian said:

As I said everyone can see thigs so differently. I saw Petula many times in her run and never saw a bad performance. She was and is in my mind the best Norma I have seen. Glenn acted it very well but didn't have the vocal. The fact that Petula remains the longest running Norma must show something as I don't think if she was that bad she would have been allowed to play the role so much.

I saw Clark a number of times too, though saw Sunset in the West End much less frequently during her time as the performance didn’t live up to the previous stars for me.

I don’t know if LuPone/Buckley have done U.S. tours (or would have at that stage in their career), but I can see why Clark might have been more amenable to that idea. I can also see why her name would be attractive to the producers. More so than her performance I think.

Betty has quite recently (pre covid) toured America in Hello Dolly

Betty will always be my fave Norma and Faith my least fave

[justsaying113]

I saw many of these ladies and thought they all brought something different and special to the role. It's a fantastic part for an actress of a "certain age" and it's a shame its commercial appeal didn't allow us to see a few more have a go (I know Helen Reddy was mooted at one point, to succeed Elaine Paige on Broadway I believe). I even saw a production at the stunning Gothenburg Opera House with a vast set (including a real pool) and a huge orchestra (as good as the one at ENO). I'll go with Elaine Paige though. As ALW himself said of her, "she brought something very special indeed to 'As If We've Never Said Goodbye".

Some of the younger performers sing songs from Sunset beautifully but there's nothing going on behind the eyes or the voice.

[alece10]

I saw the original London production twice, once with Betty Buckley and the other time with EP. I have to be honest and say that at the time I didnt know who Betty Buckley was and I have no lasting memory of the show. However I still remember EPs performance which was wonderful.

[BurlyBeaR]

[BurlyBeaR]

[BurlyBeaR]

[BurlyBeaR]

[BurlyBeaR]