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Post by crowblack on Sept 2, 2017 12:06:15 GMT
too few whippets in the production I just don't think the social pressures that drive the source material exist in this play - I didn't even feel a sense of empty nesting from it, more that a baby would complete the Heals Shop Window/Sunday Supplement lifestyle. A London media lifestyle blogger and her jetsetting husband complaining about this or that brand of champers really doesn't resonate, certainly not with me and I doubt with many people I know, apart from the few who themselves work in the London Media and live in North London. Ditto Fleabag, about the class of people who can run a bijou, themed hipster cafe as a hobby or can afford to turn down million pound job offers. As someone who hasn't had kids, I thought I might it painful to watch and instead I just found them really, really annoying. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 12:16:06 GMT
I found it to interestingly test the limits of empathy. Yes, they are self obsessed, metropolitan media types etc., but why should that make them deserving of the fate of childlessness? In the end, it isn't down to who you are, where you are, what lifestyle you have; like illness it can happen to us all and, for that, we should feel for someone whose biological makeup is broken.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 2, 2017 12:42:08 GMT
I didn't think they deserved it, but they didn't seem to be a particularly appealing or even well-matched couple, had tons of other stuff going on in their lives and could always adopt, the rejection of which as an option just made them come across as even more unsympathetic and unrealistic. I didn't get the sense of external pressures other than her own jealousy of her sister - they are, after all, from a mileu/social class where not having children is as common as having them. It just seemed to come across more as a psychotic obsession from quite early on in the piece.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 13:59:06 GMT
I just seemed to me that, despite all the logical things you mention as to how they could have adopted etc., that the sheer strength of this inner need was always too strong. It said, to me, that however much we try to believe that we have evolved into logical beings, we are still just animals beneath.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 2, 2017 19:36:59 GMT
we are still just animals beneath. I didn't get that feeling from this staging / production, though - I think the cool fish tank set worked against it, too. Felt a bit like watching lab rats or a 1990s art installation. I really wanted to like this, btw - I know some on here (presumably London based and with unlimited cash!) seem to enjoy going to shows to hate them - for me, pretty skint and coming from Liverpool, I only pick shows I'm really sure I want to see and it just didn't work for me. |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 4, 2017 14:47:28 GMT
I'm a little unsure, though, about it being personal background that makes it hard to relate to any particular play. I think it depends on the distance - I love Macbeth! - but in this case it depicts a situation that is more familiar, so the way the characters behave in it, which is not in the way any of the women I know in a similar situation behaved, makes it more alienating. We saw a symbolic tree, but I just didn't really get the desire to nurture - instead, a flat out rejection of the idea of adoption, and a jealousy towards her sister which she blogs about - in most families, that would cause a rift that would never be healed but here seemed swiftly glossed over, as was the potentially interesting info that she'd once had an abortion - I thought we'd see more of her dwelling on that, but I don't think it was referred to again (perhaps politically a too sensitive line for the play to take?). |
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Post by popcultureboy on Sept 4, 2017 15:03:04 GMT
As a matter of interest, why could the staging not be replicated in the West End if there was a mind to transfer (which seemingly there isn't)? I'm just curious. Would it have to remain in the round or could they adapt it a bit like the transfer for A View from the Bridge? I think it's more to do with the set than anything else. It would be possible, I suppose, to stage this in a traditional proscenium house if you put big glass panels in. But I don't think any traditional west end house has the wing space for the big sets that whizz in and out (or at least that's my understanding of the logistical reasons for a transfer not being an option). |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 4, 2017 15:58:50 GMT
The thing is though, she did a complete 180 on the baby thing within what seemed like a very short space of time. Don't women feel a maternal instinct building up over time rather than making a snap decision after a bottle of champers that they'd quite like a baby now? That's a rhetorical question, and yes I know everyone is different, but it seemed to me that she only really wanted it when she started to realise she couldnt have it. I felt more sorry for him than her. Woo, call the misogyny police!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 4, 2017 17:31:18 GMT
Yes but I feel it escalated from "let's have a baby" to "oh god I can't conceive" quite quickly at the start of that four years.
I read the synopsis of the original play on wiki. Bears little relation to this from what I could see, especially the ending.
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Post by peggs on Sept 4, 2017 18:17:47 GMT
Yes but I feel it escalated from "let's have a baby" to "oh god I can't conceive" quite quickly at the start of that four years. I thought that was related to the whole ticking biological clock thing so it became an issue perhaps faster than if she'd been younger, plus that sort of at back of mind 'I had an abortion once, have I scuppered things'. Does having an abortion effect your chances of later conceiving? Allowing for the fact that every woman is different. |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 5, 2017 10:13:54 GMT
I felt that the captions were the key there I found that another alienating factor, though - again, the lab rat, shop window thing for a play whose subject should be so internal, organic and female. Billie Piper's performance carried me along but when I came out I just didn't feel anything. Sometimes you can see a play, and when the characters go offstage between scenes you think they are in another room, or worry about how they'll fare when the shown story ends. I didn't feel that here. It reminded me a bit of seeing The Pitchfork Disney, which swept you along vividly in performance but when it was over it was over, like a firework display. Some plays I see I can't sleep afterwards because I'm up scribbling down thoughts on it, and I really thought this one was going to be heartbreaking but it wasn't. |
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Post by RedRose on Sept 5, 2017 11:26:12 GMT
Has it officially been announced yet that it will transfer to Broadway?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 11:50:42 GMT
I found that another alienating factor, though We really did have opposite views on this one, didn't we, crowblack . I found them a fascinating running commentary, either a horrible jerk back to reality, or in some ways almost mocking her at times. I do agree it wasn't heart-breaking, more like all-consuming, with so much going on that only now are the layers starting to peel a little. Maybe @emicardiff will do a PhD on it or something, some time. haha you know what I'm good... I've actually been stalking this thread with interest- I never saw it, I adore Billie Piper but missed both ticket scrums and was busy on NT Live night. But I'm intrigued, as although the staging sounds fascinating I cannot personally imagine being particualrly affected by it. Having zero desire for children myself I find it utterly impossible to understand the obsessive drive that others have for it- so I really doubt I'd feel much in this play (as perhaps others are alluding to). It's also been interesting to watch here and on twitter the small minority tenatively raising their hands and whispering 'Actually I didn't LOVE it' ETA I'm not saying that it's not a fascinatingly interesting play in it's construction and staging- if anything that makes me still want to see it. |
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Post by peggs on Sept 5, 2017 12:14:14 GMT
I found them a fascinating running commentary, either a horrible jerk back to reality, or in some ways almost mocking her at times. I do agree it wasn't heart-breaking, more like all-consuming, with so much going on that only now are the layers starting to peel a little. Maybe @emicardiff will do a PhD on it or something, some time. Yes I like that interpretation of the captions, as it all got bleaker they were increasing harbingers of doom which along with the music just ramped up the tension.
And yes all consuming describes it well for me.
emicardiff I think it had the potential to not work for people, not simply on the basis of whether you do have/do want children etc. but I could imagine it not resonating and even possibly coming across as an over reaction. I don't think it was the issue of wanting a child that I particularly felt moved by but more the emotional wringer we went through. But yes it won't have worked for everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 12:41:30 GMT
Yes I like that interpretation of the captions, as it all got bleaker they were increasing harbingers of doom which along with the music just ramped up the tension.
And yes all consuming describes it well for me.
emicardiff I think it had the potential to not work for people, not simply on the basis of whether you do have/do want children etc. but I could imagine it not resonating and even possibly coming across as an over reaction. I don't think it was the issue of wanting a child that I particularly felt moved by but more the emotional wringer we went through. But yes it won't have worked for everyone.
I think, as I tend to feel 'in real life' that people are a bit 'over dramatic' when it comes to child-having (very much a vote in the 'if you want a child that badly you'd adopt' camp here) I feel from what I've read I would end up feeling a bit frustrated with the character. It also (again only from what I've read) all feels a bit 'much'. That said, if I'd been in the room for it maybe I'd appreciate it, maybe not. |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 5, 2017 15:10:30 GMT
ery much a vote in the 'if you want a child that badly you'd adopt' camp here That's been the case with all the people I know, and know of, in this situation - even if they haven't done it, it was considered. The reviewers on Saturday Review last week all loved it, but they are all media types with, I presume, similar lifestyles so the whole sleek North London/colour supplement/Latitude Festival lifestyle setting which for me made it feel very removed was probably 'homely' to them. |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 5, 2017 17:22:54 GMT
I remember admiring the production very much and feeling absolutely no emotional connection to it at all.
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Post by peggs on Sept 5, 2017 19:49:43 GMT
emicardiff I think it had the potential to not work for people, not simply on the basis of whether you do have/do want children etc. but I could imagine it not resonating and even possibly coming across as an over reaction. I don't think it was the issue of wanting a child that I particularly felt moved by but more the emotional wringer we went through. But yes it won't have worked for everyone.
I think, as I tend to feel 'in real life' that people are a bit 'over dramatic' when it comes to child-having (very much a vote in the 'if you want a child that badly you'd adopt' camp here) I feel from what I've read I would end up feeling a bit frustrated with the character. It also (again only from what I've read) all feels a bit 'much'. That said, if I'd been in the room for it maybe I'd appreciate it, maybe not. Yeah I can imagine that being a reasoned response. |
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Post by mrslovettsmeatpie on Sept 5, 2017 22:45:46 GMT
We really did have opposite views on this one, didn't we, crowblack . I found them a fascinating running commentary, either a horrible jerk back to reality, or in some ways almost mocking her at times. I do agree it wasn't heart-breaking, more like all-consuming, with so much going on that only now are the layers starting to peel a little. Maybe @emicardiff will do a PhD on it or something, some time. haha you know what I'm good... I've actually been stalking this thread with interest- I never saw it, I adore Billie Piper but missed both ticket scrums and was busy on NT Live night. But I'm intrigued, as although the staging sounds fascinating I cannot personally imagine being particualrly affected by it. Having zero desire for children myself I find it utterly impossible to understand the obsessive drive that others have for it- so I really doubt I'd feel much in this play (as perhaps others are alluding to). It's also been interesting to watch here and on twitter the small minority tenatively raising their hands and whispering 'Actually I didn't LOVE it' ETA I'm not saying that it's not a fascinatingly interesting play in it's construction and staging- if anything that makes me still want to see it. I'm always turned on when someone who hasn't seen something decides to give their opinion on why they wouldn't like it |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 5, 2017 22:54:41 GMT
Really, that's what you took from that comment about being intrigued and quite wanting to see it?
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Post by bee on Sept 6, 2017 6:10:04 GMT
haha you know what I'm good... I've actually been stalking this thread with interest- I never saw it, I adore Billie Piper but missed both ticket scrums and was busy on NT Live night. But I'm intrigued, as although the staging sounds fascinating I cannot personally imagine being particualrly affected by it. Having zero desire for children myself I find it utterly impossible to understand the obsessive drive that others have for it- so I really doubt I'd feel much in this play (as perhaps others are alluding to). It's also been interesting to watch here and on twitter the small minority tenatively raising their hands and whispering 'Actually I didn't LOVE it' ETA I'm not saying that it's not a fascinatingly interesting play in it's construction and staging- if anything that makes me still want to see it. I'm always turned on when someone who hasn't seen something decides to give their opinion on why they wouldn't like it
Welcome back parsley.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 7:29:15 GMT
haha you know what I'm good... I've actually been stalking this thread with interest- I never saw it, I adore Billie Piper but missed both ticket scrums and was busy on NT Live night. But I'm intrigued, as although the staging sounds fascinating I cannot personally imagine being particualrly affected by it. Having zero desire for children myself I find it utterly impossible to understand the obsessive drive that others have for it- so I really doubt I'd feel much in this play (as perhaps others are alluding to). It's also been interesting to watch here and on twitter the small minority tenatively raising their hands and whispering 'Actually I didn't LOVE it' ETA I'm not saying that it's not a fascinatingly interesting play in it's construction and staging- if anything that makes me still want to see it. I'm always turned on when someone who hasn't seen something decides to give their opinion on why they wouldn't like it Welcome back that was what 0-dick in how many posts? I was tagged in the thread by @theatremonkey until then, as I said, I was reading the thread but not posting because I hadn't seen it. As someone tagged me in it I decided to give some thoughts. Those thoughts were 'I didn't see it but on reading the reviews and other comments these are my thoughts...' And my thoughts (for the hard of listening) are: This looks like a really interesting production and I'm intrigued by the set up. However I feel from the subject matter I may not emotionally engage with it as much as others do. Does anyone else think that's an unreasonable summary? I haven't seen Follies yet, but I've offered thoughts on that based on other's comments...is it a new forum rule where I have to show my ticket in order to enter a thread? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 6, 2017 8:18:20 GMT
Perfect summation @emicardiff
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 8:43:43 GMT
I had this to say about the play last September (a whole year ago? Already?), and assuming the production hasn't materially changed, I'm sure it still stands even though I haven't seen it this year:
So yeah, I didn't empathise with it as such, 'cos I've been sure for a long time now that not only do I not want children, I actively want *no* children, but I still engaged with it because the performances were extremely good and the production wasn't bad either. It's not compulsory to personally identify with every story you watch/read, and it's still possible to enjoy a show even if you can't entirely fathom where the characters are coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 8:44:54 GMT
That said, if I'd been in the room for it maybe I'd appreciate it, maybe not. I'm not sure you had to engage so much on an emotional level with a particular character - the play was the thing, and it was more about acting as a jury being presented with evidence from all sides and testing the weight of everything as a picture builds, perhaps. That's fair- as above (and I feel like my opinion is the one on trial a bit now haha) I'm just going by what I've read/what others have said about it. I'm interested in the staging etc, and in Billie Piper's performance. But hey I'll be brutally honest- a play about someone wanting to have a baby just doesn't really register an interest with me, I kind of think 'so what?' perhaps because I'm at an age (much like the character) where it feels like that's a constant discussion, and one levelled at me in the 'why aren't you desperate for one' way, perhaps that just makes me disinclined to be locked in a theatre to be bombarded by that discussion again? BUT all that said it does make the whole thing very interesting from the perspective of what different audiences- related to gender, age etc etc take from it. But again...I didn't see it...(I might start putting a disclaimer on all my comments now just in case  ) |
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