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Post by showgirl on Dec 15, 2019 5:07:47 GMT
Well the play has certainly provoked discussion, as the playwright expected and intended - though perhaps not focused entirely on the issue she had in mind.
Another reason I actively choose to read spoilers, especially in advance of seeing a production, is that they can provide additional useful info, which in this case enabled me to time my exit appropriately.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 12:37:16 GMT
Wow, it appears my statement that the subject is more of an American problem couldn't have been further from the truth...
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 15, 2019 12:55:31 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
The fact that people feel threatened by the ending speaks volumes. Why do you feel aggressive about being asked to see something from someone else’s perspective? I was the first up on stage and I thought even then the play was clever...the actors could not be seen behind the lights at the very back but as I started to get a little “how long is this going to go on, I feel a bit of an idiot here” I started to look at the people choosing not to move...and I drifted into thinking “why?” Were they annoyed at being manipulated? had they mobility problems? Did they not get it? I think some people do hate being made to confront problems (I’m not saying this was the reason by the way). I readily admit I am racist (it’s hard not to be!) but so many people claim they are not, with righteous indignation.
I am also amused by the people saying the first bit of the play was great....! And I thought so too...clever.
And I agree with person earlier in the thread that people almost spontaneously talked to each other afterwards....I was even spoken to by a stranger when discussing he play with my friend going down the street who apologised afterwards for adding her opinion but said she HAD to say it to someone. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 13:21:15 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
The fact that people feel threatened by the ending speaks volumes. Why do you feel aggressive about being asked to see something from someone else’s perspective? I was the first up on stage and I thought even then the play was clever...the actors could not be seen behind the lights at the very back but as I started to get a little “how long is this going to go on, I feel a bit of an idiot here” I started to look at the people choosing not to move...and I drifted into thinking “why?” Were they annoyed at being manipulated? had they mobility problems? Did they not get it? I think some people do hate being made to confront problems (I’m not saying this was the reason by the way). I readily admit I am racist (it’s hard not to be!) but so many people claim they are not, with righteous indignation.
I am also amused by the people saying the first bit of the play was great....! And I thought so too...clever.
And I agree with person earlier in the thread that people almost spontaneously talked to each other afterwards....I was even spoken to by a stranger when discussing he play with my friend going down the street who apologised afterwards for adding her opinion but said she HAD to say it to someone. {Spoiler - click to view}
Performers can rarely see the audience because of lighting, I think that was the main point of getting people up onto the stage and having the performers in the audience. They rarely know what kind of audience they are playing to, hence why at concerts the act will ask for the house lights to be brought up so they can see the crowd. I think they can see the first couple of rows, but thats it.
At my matinee it was full of older people who were not very mobile, but a lot did struggle up there which I actually found quite moving as clearly they are from a totally different generation and yet they were willing to 'lend an ear' and be fully involved.
It was mostly 35-50 year olds who stayed seated at my performance and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance.
I think we were meant to go through all the emotions you went through up there, as that was the exact reaction I had. But at no point did I feel guilt or shame, I just found it mostly uncomfortable because of the lights blinding me and of course the absolute fear of being on a stage in front of people. But I also knew that was a part of the point.
I wouldn't say I am a racist, as I really don't judge anyone on anything (I think being gay curbed that behaviour pretty early on) but I would say I am ignorant to the issues other races face. I can hide being gay, they can't hide their ethnicities. |
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Post by nash16 on Dec 15, 2019 14:06:08 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
The fact that people feel threatened by the ending speaks volumes. Why do you feel aggressive about being asked to see something from someone else’s perspective? I was the first up on stage and I thought even then the play was clever...the actors could not be seen behind the lights at the very back but as I started to get a little “how long is this going to go on, I feel a bit of an idiot here” I started to look at the people choosing not to move...and I drifted into thinking “why?” Were they annoyed at being manipulated? had they mobility problems? Did they not get it? I think some people do hate being made to confront problems (I’m not saying this was the reason by the way). I readily admit I am racist (it’s hard not to be!) but so many people claim they are not, with righteous indignation.
I am also amused by the people saying the first bit of the play was great....! And I thought so too...clever.
And I agree with person earlier in the thread that people almost spontaneously talked to each other afterwards....I was even spoken to by a stranger when discussing he play with my friend going down the street who apologised afterwards for adding her opinion but said she HAD to say it to someone. {Spoiler - click to view}
Performers can rarely see the audience because of lighting, I think that was the main point of getting people up onto the stage and having the performers in the audience. They rarely know what kind of audience they are playing to, hence why at concerts the act will ask for the house lights to be brought up so they can see the crowd. I think they can see the first couple of rows, but thats it.
At my matinee it was full of older people who were not very mobile, but a lot did struggle up there which I actually found quite moving as clearly they are from a totally different generation and yet they were willing to 'lend an ear' and be fully involved.
It was mostly 35-50 year olds who stayed seated at my performance and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance.
I think we were meant to go through all the emotions you went through up there, as that was the exact reaction I had. But at no point did I feel guilt or shame, I just found it mostly uncomfortable because of the lights blinding me and of course the absolute fear of being on a stage in front of people. But I also knew that was a part of the point.
I wouldn't say I am a racist, as I really don't judge anyone on anything (I think being gay curbed that behaviour pretty early on) but I would say I am ignorant to the issues other races face. I can hide being gay, they can't hide their ethnicities. You may not classify yourself as a racist, but you suuuuuure are judgy! "and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance." (Just a heads up, you don't appear to be coming out of this well...) |
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 15:03:37 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
Performers can rarely see the audience because of lighting, I think that was the main point of getting people up onto the stage and having the performers in the audience. They rarely know what kind of audience they are playing to, hence why at concerts the act will ask for the house lights to be brought up so they can see the crowd. I think they can see the first couple of rows, but thats it.
At my matinee it was full of older people who were not very mobile, but a lot did struggle up there which I actually found quite moving as clearly they are from a totally different generation and yet they were willing to 'lend an ear' and be fully involved.
It was mostly 35-50 year olds who stayed seated at my performance and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance.
I think we were meant to go through all the emotions you went through up there, as that was the exact reaction I had. But at no point did I feel guilt or shame, I just found it mostly uncomfortable because of the lights blinding me and of course the absolute fear of being on a stage in front of people. But I also knew that was a part of the point.
I wouldn't say I am a racist, as I really don't judge anyone on anything (I think being gay curbed that behaviour pretty early on) but I would say I am ignorant to the issues other races face. I can hide being gay, they can't hide their ethnicities. You many not classify yourself as a racist, but you suuuuuure are judgy! "and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance." (Just a heads up, you don't appear to be coming out of this well...) Judgey perhaps, but also accurate...unlike your description of the play. Not really bothered how I am coming across to certain people when others are obviously agreeing with me. |
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Post by youngoffender on Dec 15, 2019 17:18:25 GMT
That's interesting -- I don't think the ending is meant to shame or humiliate, it's to promote an awareness of the optics by which we operate as a society, which is a very different thing. But I thought the play had done this already, with real brio and invention. I was as disappointed with Donna Banya's speech as I was with the set-up for its delivery. It was a classic case of telling rather than showing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 20:06:24 GMT
The ending of this play feels pretty uncomfortable for black people in the audience too. We were left sitting in the audience with all these white people on stage in the spotlight. There were so few of us that it felt as though we were the ones being shamed and humiliated.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 20:31:18 GMT
Jaysus...I think I may become a therapist...
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Post by nash16 on Dec 15, 2019 23:21:31 GMT
You many not classify yourself as a racist, but you suuuuuure are judgy! "and most appeared to be doing so for a reason...as displayed above...spite and ignorance." (Just a heads up, you don't appear to be coming out of this well...) Judgey perhaps, but also accurate...unlike your description of the play. Not really bothered how I am coming across to certain people when others are obviously agreeing with me. Wow. |
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Post by nash16 on Dec 15, 2019 23:22:48 GMT
Jaysus...I think I may become a therapist... Please don't!! |
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 23:43:07 GMT
Jaysus...I think I may become a therapist... Please don't!! I'll give you mates rates x |
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1,828 posts
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Post by Dave B on Dec 17, 2019 9:53:11 GMT
We saw it last night. I had avoided the spoilers and went in only knowing {Spoiler - click to view}that something happened towards the end that had an option of participation.
I really don't know what I thought to be honest. We spent a good portion of the trip home thinking and discussing so on that basis alone, it has to be a success. The cast are fabulous and that's worth a note, I think. Particularly taken with Donna Banya who, whatever you think of the ending, delivers it spectacularly. |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 18, 2019 17:24:10 GMT
Quite the afternoon! I have another visit booked and, at the end, plan to do the opposite of what I did on this occasion.
Have to say on first impression - as humble amateur hack - it felt a bit 'A Day in the Life' (i.e. two or three decent ideas welded together by George Martin). So, pondering the structural cohesion a little - sometimes you end up with more than the sum of the parts, other times not so much ... A lot of fun though.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 19, 2019 0:04:32 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking.
Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon.
It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort.
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Post by youngoffender on Dec 19, 2019 13:29:57 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking. Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon. It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort. Completely agree. It's as if Sibblies Drury did not have confidence in her own writing, the director and cast who gave it life, or the intelligence of the audience to work it out: so she made one of the actors explain what the play meant. I came for drama, not a lecture, and very good drama it was too.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 19, 2019 15:12:12 GMT
Atm, what's difficult for me is when Donna Banya is standing in front of the stage - and hasn't been there long, switching to her normal accent - and says 'the play is over now ..', before beginning a whole new speech. Later she moves to the middle of the auditorium, still speaking. Breaking with convention isn't necessarily problematic but it was the point I semi-disengaged from the monologue and fully decided to not participate. The entertainment had concluded - what she had to say may or not have been interesting but I was quite keen to get on with my afternoon. It's that distinction between what is and what isn't part of play - I'm interested in what the writer has to say (through their craft). Donna Banya speaking in an American accent playing the role of a teenager is one thing, Donna Banya speaking in her natural voice after announcing the end of the entertainment ... felt more like an imposition. That was a social discomfort. I am going on Monday night with my other half who is American, so it'll be interesting to see his reaction as he has no idea what it's about. I too thought the 'transition' was very clumsily handled and that would be my main criticism of how that section is handled and why it is so misunderstood. It comes across as being combative when it shouldn't considering what we are being asked to do. I went along with it as for me it was a part of the show, but this time I am not going to. |
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Post by lynette on Dec 19, 2019 16:46:08 GMT
It’s part of the play though isn’t it? Or people could get up and leave? This thread is so veiled in mist I can’t work out what happens.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 19, 2019 17:31:10 GMT
Lyn, perhaps not so much 'veiled' as awkward or challenging to form a conventional response. It's radical, a unique experience. Here's some discussion from Saturday Review a couple of weeks ago - first item: www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000c2w4 |
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 19, 2019 19:21:08 GMT
This thread has made me chuckle!!!! Like the writer of the play didn’t know what they were doing......have a look back at the thread and then tell me it hasn’t provoked discussion and made some of you consider how you feel. I mean there’s a lot of indignation in there too but....
Sometimes life is too cosy and tidy and predictable.
I found this uncomfortable at times but it has stayed with me and it’s one of those plays that I think is cleverer the more I think about it!
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 20, 2019 16:22:29 GMT
Young Vic released some Lucky Dip seats today an will be seeing this early in the new Year.
After seeing A Kind of People at the Royal Court and Unknown Rivers at Hampstead recently will be interesting to see how they all compare.
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Post by latefortheoverture on Dec 22, 2019 0:30:55 GMT
Just missed the Lucky Dip seats that were released the other day, anyone had luck with the returns queue? Seems I'm very late to the party!
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Post by theatrefan77 on Dec 22, 2019 0:44:47 GMT
Overall I was disappointed. It is a thought-provoking play which attempts to use different techniques to dramatic effect, but for me it failed miserably. It starts well but then it becomes patchy and muddled. It tries to be too clever and ends up being just pretentious. The end did nothing for me, but by then I was totally disengaged. Just my opinion of course. In spite of everything I'm glad I went.
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Post by luvvie23 on Dec 25, 2019 16:22:04 GMT
I loved the play. I thought it was more event theatre than pure story telling. As a white, 30 something Male, I felt uncomfortable and a bit embarrassed. But myself and my partner came away discussing our different reasons of why we felt a bit embarrassed. But the truth is after a week of processing it I feel that the writer did the right thing. I am a privileged Male and life is a little bit easier for me. And the play reminded me of that fact.
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Post by drmaplewood on Jan 3, 2020 8:21:22 GMT
Just missed the Lucky Dip seats that were released the other day, anyone had luck with the returns queue? Seems I'm very late to the party! Any luck with day seats? I’m out of the country until next week but really want to see this. |
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