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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 14:08:37 GMT
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. People (and I’m sure they’ll all say they know all about it) need to familiarize themselves with the Commedia dell'arte style that is used throughout the show for the adults, NOT just in one scene.
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Post by Dr Tom on Dec 9, 2021 16:10:35 GMT
Uh-oh! Can you share what this audience interaction entails? {Spoiler - click to view}
One member of the front row is selected to hold up a photo during a masturbation scene. |
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Post by Dr Tom on Dec 9, 2021 16:20:05 GMT
The gunshot goes off when you see someone holding a gun. Guns being waved around on stage are quite a major anxiety trigger for people. I know it's not rational. They might be more acceptable in the US where guns are more common. |
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 17:34:53 GMT
I don’t think “acceptable” is the right word. I don’t speak for all Americans (sadly), but I’d be happy never seeing a gun again. When used in shows like this or even the new “Assassins”, where the actors hold the gun 2 feet from you, even though you know it’s not real its still jolting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 18:45:26 GMT
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. People (and I’m sure they’ll all say they know all about it) need to familiarize themselves with the Commedia dell'arte style that is used throughout the show for the adults, NOT just in one scene. Perhaps it is you who should familiarize yourself with the style. It’s based on tropes and stereotypes. While it was created in a much different time, we needn’t perpetrate those by continuing to play in dangerous and hateful tropes. The Pantalone mask, with the large hook nose, was associated with greed, lies and a love of money. It was steeped in anti-semitism when first created, and that remains today, whether you see it inherently or not. |
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 18:48:30 GMT
Sure thing. Thanks. I’m definitely offended now. So offended. Thank you for educating me so I can now understand what I should and should not be offended by. Appreciate it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 18:49:09 GMT
So by that, abortion doctors are Jewish? I think I have a pretty good idea what is anti-Semitic and what isn’t. By that rationale, every time Pinocchio tells a lie, he’s hating Jews. It isn’t about the fact it is an abortion doctor. It is a character whose greed pushes them to deliver botched abortions. It isn’t the abortion - it’s the greed, and the criminality with which money is achieved. This is a negative and anti-Semitic trope. Just because you are Jewish and not offended does not mean that other Jews aren’t. And it doesn’t make their offense wrong, or ridiculous. And Pinocchio’s nose is one that grows straight out with each lie, developing a leaf because the wood he is made of is still alive. It isn’t a large, “natural” hook nose like Shylock, or Roald Dahl’s witches. |
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 18:52:35 GMT
Yup. Sure thing.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Dec 9, 2021 19:00:51 GMT
Sure thing. Thanks. I’m definitely offended now. So offended. Thank you for educating me so I can now understand what I should and should not be offended by. Appreciate it. Clearly some Jewish people were hurt and upset by this. Why can’t you accept that - and accept that not all people (certainly not all Jewish people) will agree on everything or have the same emotional response to things, and the fact this doesn’t bother you doesn’t invalidate their hurt, or mean they’re telling you that you must be “offended.” |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 19:01:01 GMT
It IS a sure thing. And guess what? You’d learn that in a commedia dell’arte class, of which I took several in my college years. Here is a fascinating effort by an actual company discussing the history of the masks, and how they move forward as artists to avoid the hurt some masks now cause. www.tutzanni.com/blog/anothertime-noexcuseInstead of responding like a toddler, try engaging in an actual conversation and learning. That’s how we grow. |
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 19:04:06 GMT
Engaging like a grown up means not just saying “IM RIGHT YOURE WRONG”. There is absolutely zero reason to continue a conversation with some like yourself who doesn’t want to have one and only needs to be “right” about something that makes zero sense. So outrage away.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 19:12:51 GMT
I posted an article from an actually commedia company about the history of the tropes and why they can be hurtful. You have no INTEREST in growing or engaging.
You seem to think I’m the one who has to be right, but you don’t actually have a desire to engage about why people are troubled by it. You deemed it ridiculous, and turned your back to it before even taking a moment to ask “why”. So, actually, it is you who has a desperate need to be right.
You are correct about one thing though: there’s absolutely no point further engaging. If you want to continue to remain defiantly and proudly ignorant, go ahead.
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 9, 2021 19:14:11 GMT
You got it. Have a great night.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 19:14:54 GMT
Sure thing. Thanks. I’m definitely offended now. So offended. Thank you for educating me so I can now understand what I should and should not be offended by. Appreciate it. Clearly some Jewish people were hurt and upset by this. Why can’t you accept that - and accept that not all people (certainly not all Jewish people) will agree on everything or have the same emotional response to things, and the fact this doesn’t bother you doesn’t invalidate their hurt, or mean they’re telling you that you must be “offended.” Thank you, SamuelWhiskers. No one is saying you have to be offended, but the way we grow is by instead asking “why are you offended” and actually LISTENING to the response. You don’t have to come to the same result, but you can take the time to listen. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 19:16:08 GMT
If only people tried asking “Why are you offended?” instead of saying “It’s ridiculous that you are offended”. The world would be a different place.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 9, 2021 19:20:42 GMT
Is there a way to mute someone on this board so you never have to engage with them again, because sign me up. Yes, you were directed to read our rules and FAQ’s when you joined our forum. The part about ignoring members is here. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 9, 2021 19:22:25 GMT
Time to focus on the show instead of other members I think. Let’s move things along.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 19:24:59 GMT
Is there a way to mute someone on this board so you never have to engage with them again, because sign me up. Yes, you were directed to read our rules and FAQ’s when you joined our forum. The part about ignoring members is here. Thank you, I was being unnecessarily snarky and that’s why I changed it. I shouldn’t have taken that tone, my apologies. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 9, 2021 20:31:51 GMT
That’s ok and thank you.
Please can we discuss any problematic elements of the show without directing comments at other members. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 20:40:54 GMT
Yes, and again, apologies for getting snarky.
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Post by hitmewithurbethshot on Dec 9, 2021 23:59:08 GMT
For anyone that’s seen the show already is there any nudity in it?
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Post by mattnyc on Dec 10, 2021 0:07:11 GMT
No nudity in this production.
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Post by southstreet on Dec 10, 2021 11:04:34 GMT
I saw the show last night and really enjoyed it. I didn't see the Hope Mill Production, which I am still super annoyed about as I couldn't make it up to Manchester for it and my hopes for a transfer didn't work out. But last night was my 6th production of Spring I've seen, so am fairly familiar with the show.
I really love the set, when I first walked in I thought that was a bit bare, even for Spring Awakening, but there were many little surprises in it throughout so it worked really well, especially the back was creating beautiful views.
The cast was great, super energetic, all pretty good vocalists though I feel the two lead boys might need a bit more time to settle and where I was sitting, the mix wasn't helping much as they were drowned out by the music a few times. Nathan Armarkwei-Laryea was without a doubt the most charismatic Hänschen I have ever seen. He was definitely my standout performance in the midst of all round solid performances. Also loved Amara Okereke's Wendla and Asha Banks' Thea was probably my favourite performer in the more 'ensembley' parts.
I was excited when Once There Was a Pirate started, but have to say I kinda missed The Guilty Ones. But excited to have finally heard the song within the production setting.
In terms of Choreo, I loved it for the most part, but sometimes felt things were a little bit too busy in act 1, but that's just my personal taste. Overall I absolutely loved the show and felt it was in bloody good shape for a third preview. I had booked last night and closing night the day that tickets went on sale, as I love the show, so unless it was a terrible production, I knew I would want to go more than once and I am pretty certain I will fit in another visit or two between now and closing.
As for the masks, I can completely understand how some people might be offended by the mask chosen for the abortionist. However, and I am not dismissing people's feelings here, they have used different masks for adult characters throughout the show, so it wasn't just that the one unpleasant character in the show got the mask with a big nose, a lot of the unpleasant characters had masks with different size noses and I felt all the unpleasant characters were played a lot more caricaturist grotesque than in other productions I've seen. But that might just be me as I found all the masks pretty creepy. LOL
As I said, I am not dismissing people's feelings here and like someone mentioned earlier, when I saw the character walk in with that mask, I thought that might be seen as problematic. It was definitely a mask that looked like an old-fashioned Jewish caricature and as someone who isn't well versed in antisemitic tropes, I personally didn't make the connection with greed and money of the abortionist but can totally see how people do, especially with the way he (and other characters) were played in this production.
On a complete separate note with regards to that character itself, he has always been played a bit slyly but I always felt that was because what he was doing was illegal, not because he was a greedy, horrible person, who just does abortions because it's an easy way to make money with no regard for the women. I am not saying all abortionists are saints but abortions in any time or place where they are illegal (so still in lots of places this day and age) are extremely risky if people don't have access to the necessary facilities, etc, so as much as many women will have died from botched abortions, for many this was their only way out of a very difficult situation, especially in societies where abortions are not allowed and being pregnant out of wedlock will get you ostracized, too. Plus obviously every woman having the right to just not want a baby and put her body through a pregnancy. So yes, I never saw that abortionist as a particularly horrible character per se, it was just that the outcome in Wendla's case was unfortunately not a good one.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 11, 2021 10:33:34 GMT
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Post by Dr Tom on Dec 11, 2021 18:59:22 GMT
Did anyone else get pinged by the NHS Covid app today who attended on Wednesday?
The app doesn't say where the Covid exposure was, but the theatre was the only place that day where I was in close proximity to the same people for more than 15 minutes.
Thankfully I have no symptoms and a negative lateral flow test, so I don't have to self isolate. And mask wearing in the venue was pretty good.
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