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Post by shownut on Feb 17, 2023 10:24:26 GMT
Interesting fact- AIDA was released as a concept album, just had Jesus Christ Superstar, Evita and Chess before it (all lyrics by Tim Rice) and on this concept album, My Strongest Suit was recorded by The Spice Girls. You are correct that AIDA had a concept album but unlike those other shows, there was a fully-produced production that preceeded it. The show was initially known as "Elaborate Lives, The Legend of Aida" and opened at The Alliance Theatre in Atlanta, GA the summer of 1998. Here are some clips from YouTube: It begins with a song that was cut and replaced by "Fortune Favours The Brave" and is followed by another cut song "The Messenger". Both Heather and Sherie are here - Radames is played by Hank Stratton who was, of course, replaced by Adam Pascal. The concept album was released in 1999 prior to the show's new/pre-Broadway production in Chicago (which was a disastrous hybrid of the Atlanta production and the eventual Broadway production). I saw all three versions of the show and adored most of the finished product. I look forward to seeing what they have done next with it. |
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Post by dan28 on Feb 17, 2023 10:32:10 GMT
I have that concept album. And the OBC. Amneris was/is really the secret core of the show, developing from a shallow rich poppet to a wise young woman and ruler. I think both her change and the frame work of the museum, where Aida and Radames meet again after all these centuries, both work as a little happy end of sorts after the tragic finale taken straight from the opera. I'm not touching the whole "no whites" thing with a ten-foot-pole... My favourite song from the show is Amneris' song "I know the truth", one of the most beautiful songs in musical theatre in my opinion. Why would you not touch the whole subject of "no whites"? It is very important how we view this in the path forward. Because according to the hypothesis the only black people in Egypt were either captives or servants, which is actually the story of Aida, she is exactly that, she is being held captive by Radames and he gives her to Amneris as a servant. All the lyrics in the show are about this subject. Then Aida en Radames fall in love behind Amneris' back and hell breaks loose. Also, Aida's biggest solo is about that. "The Nile valley "was originally peopled by a branch of the Caucasian race". It was proposed in 1844 by Samuel George Morton, who acknowledged that Negroes were present in ancient Egypt but claimed they were either captives or servants. George Gliddon (1844) wrote: "Asiatic in their origin .... the Egyptians were white men, of no darker hue than a pure Arab, a Jew, or a Phoenician." This would actually mean that the roles of Radames and Amneris could be played by any race but black. This really is something to think and talk about, especially because the casting call said, any race allowed but white. And all roles are now cast black. I feel that this is a bigger problem that's going on in society at the moment. There is a video going viral of a very intelligent Asian young man, called Charlie Cheon, who explains this much more detailed and better than I can. I love the show and I will definitely pay a visit but not talking about these things out of fear of being called openminded or realistic is not the right path. I also want to emphasize that I am all for colorblind casting. But this is the opposite of that, in a show where it does matter. |
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Post by danb on Feb 17, 2023 10:57:41 GMT
They don’t want to touch it with a barge pole because, as is increasingly the case these days, some keyboard warrior/expert will come and tell them that they are ‘wrong’ and what they are saying is damaging or oppressing someone; rather than being an introduction to some light hearted, well meaning discourse around a musical theatre subject that they already know plenty about.
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Post by dan28 on Feb 17, 2023 10:58:09 GMT
followed by another cut song "The Messenger". Thanks for that clip! I think it's a shame that this song isn't in the final version any longer. It represents the point of the show, bringing their 2 worlds together and showing how useless the separation and social narrative was. That their love rises above that, hoping that they will be together in a different world and different time. In the final version there was nothing, the curtain just closed. |
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Post by shownut on Feb 17, 2023 11:05:22 GMT
followed by another cut song "The Messenger". Thanks for that clip! I think it's a shame that this song isn't in the final version any longer. It represents the point of the show, bringing their 2 worlds together and showing how useless the separation and social narrative was. That their love rises above that, hoping that they will be together in a different world and different time. In the final version there was nothing, the curtain just closed. I actually liked the newer ending where yes, the curtain closed, but just as the two people in the museum, who are the focus here, begin to recognise/become curious about one another. The frame they gave to the show worked brilliantly. |
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Post by dan28 on Feb 17, 2023 11:15:47 GMT
I actually liked the newer ending where yes, the curtain closed, but just as the two people in the museum, who are the focus here, begin to recognise/become curious about one another. The frame they gave to the show worked brilliantly. I believe the tomb closed in silence (beautifully framed visually indeed), and then the curtain opens again, without them in it, which is a fast forward to the current time. And then the museum music (the same notes as the opening of the show) goes on for a minute and then Amneris sings one line and then the curtain closes. I just missed beautiful music, emotion, a conclusion in the new version. It felt a bit scant. Empty. But maybe that's what they were going for. The moment of them in the tomb could really benefit from an instrumental melody, maybe on strings on the melody of the messenger, and the music after that should have more meaning and depth too, in my opinion. Maybe even an instrumental reprise/climax of "I know the truth". |
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Post by anthony40 on Feb 17, 2023 11:45:52 GMT
The concept album was released in 1999 prior to the show's new/pre-Broadway production in Chicago (which was a disastrous hybrid of the Atlanta production and the eventual Broadway production). Yes, that date line makes sense because in 2000 Sydney hosted the Olympics and I remember the building I was working in was supposed to be a major security centre and I hate sports so I left and went the UK and New York with a friend, and we saw the show on our last night. (Again) from memory when Amneris sentenced them to death the lovers were singing and holding/caressing each other as the sand poured into the tomb and panels slid across till eventually the tomb filled till there was nothing and then the met each other in the museum as the show had started. |
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Post by dan28 on Feb 17, 2023 16:25:41 GMT
They don’t want to touch it with a barge pole because, as is increasingly the case these days, some keyboard warrior/expert will come and tell them that they are ‘wrong’ and what they are saying is damaging or oppressing someone; rather than being an introduction to some light hearted, well meaning discourse around a musical theatre subject. Speaking of the actual story, facts, history, origins of a musical is light hearted if you ask me. You really shouldn't be afraid, silenced or gagged by those people indeed. |
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Post by danb on Feb 17, 2023 20:42:15 GMT
They don’t want to touch it with a barge pole because, as is increasingly the case these days, some keyboard warrior/expert will come and tell them that they are ‘wrong’ and what they are saying is damaging or oppressing someone; rather than being an introduction to some light hearted, well meaning discourse around a musical theatre subject. Speaking of the actual story, facts, history, origins of a musical is light hearted if you ask me. You really shouldn't be afraid, silenced or gagged by those people indeed. You’re clearly new here 😂 welcome. I love your style! |
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Post by dan28 on Apr 30, 2023 15:18:08 GMT
The new version of Aida just premiered in the Netherlands. I have watched the show and like to share some opinions. I believe this version will be the new blueprint for all upcoming versions worldwide, including Broadway and London. It is very much hyped by the creators.
I have loved the music for many years and I have seen the Broadway, German and Dutch production of the original version, 20 years ago.
They have made a lot of changes. Not only in casting (whole black cast, which isn’t historically accurate at all), but also in the music, the story, the staging, the sets, the dancing, basically everything has changed.
The show opens not with music, but with a very long, dry, acted scene of a fight between 2 armies, with Radames in the army on the left, and then Aida walks on from the right in a costume that looks like a knight’s amor, with iron pieces, and she talks, fights, acts like a man and whips Radames’ ass and makes cool jokes in the process. Lines like “say that to your mum, will you”, right after a kick in the gut. Suddenly out of nowhere, in the middle of the fight, they start a conversation about their dreams and the armies walk away, and they walk to front center stage, so within 30 seconds they are in a friendly conversation. From fight to a conversation about “and what do you feel, what are your dreams” in the blink of an eye, really coming out of nowhere. This sudden, dry, strange shift left the audience confused.
So we are 10 minutes into the show now, and haven’t heard any music yet, only some incoherent african drumming during the fight. Suddenly they sing 3 lines acapella/drums only accompaniment. Lines which are part of the song “Enchantment passing through”. Lines like “If I could leave this place then I’d go sailing”. But the song doesn’t pick up and just fades away after 3 lines. Into nothing. Everybody thought that finally a song would start, but nothing. They walk away in silence. At this point it is starting to feel like a low budget primary school musical.
So basically the 2 opening songs, “Every story” and “Fortune favors the brave”, which are Amneris’ and Radames’ powerful introductions, are completely deleted from the show.
Then Aida walks on again and sings “The past is another land”. The lady who played Aida has a wonderful talent, both in singing and acting, so this was a beautiful moment. But there wasn’t any set, introduction, backstory, no scene with Radames before the song where she washes his back and explains her story, no argument between the 2, those scenes are all deleted too, so she basically sings the song after she just met a man in a fight and a nice but short conversation after that. Which makes us wonder what the song is about. It’s not like she’s being treated poorly in any way.
So basically, Aida is in power at all times, there are no scenes anymore where she is of a serving nature. Which is odd, she is described as a slave but all these scenes are removed and now she acts like she is Radames’ master/equal warrior who is on top at all times. She actually belittles him at several points in the show. We also have no idea what her past is now, because the scene where she explains that is also removed. Maybe she doesn’t want to be in love and longs for the time before that?
The next scene is “How I know you” between Mereb and Aida, which is basically the same as in the previous version, but confusing, because now we must suddenly believe she is a slave. They also make up a new name for Aida, “eriondella” or something of that nature, so he can call her that without people finding out she is Aida. Now she is brought in to Amneris’ “residence”, which is just an empty stage with a big, black curtain. No set anymore. The swimming pool is gone. Some of the other serving maids have props, like a chair or a scarf. This is the introduction of Amneris. She is not a funny character any longer, but as explained in interviews “based on Michelle Obama”, a strong, independent, smart woman. Aida comes in and of course is on top of the situation again and she changes Amneris’ dress and gives her tips and she is immediately promoted to be her main maid. The dress was supposed to look funny (pink and very round) but nothing else was actually funny so the scene fell a bit flat. Then Aida walks off and Amneris sings “My strongest suit”. The song and lyrics do not fit the portrayal of the character at all anymore. Also, they changed the whole arrangement. It doesn’t flow anymore, it felt like they changed it just because they wanted to change it. The far fetched rhythm gave me cardiac arrhythmia. The song and scene were very annoying to me. Especially the instrumental part where the “fashion show” takes place. It really sounded terrible. The actress is a good singer though, she deserved a better version of the song. The scene of her wanting Radames to come to her sleeping quarters is also cut. So there is no attraction between them whatsoever. No sign of her wanting him at all. It's like female characters are no longer allowed to say they want a man. Male roles must only serve female roles nowadays.
The next scene is the song “Build another pyramid” between Zoser and his son Radames. The actor playing Zoser sang above the note the whole time and this was a weird scene. The song suddenly had a drum dance break in the middle with an unpleasant rhythm and out of nowhere Radames started doing a dance/twerk break in the middle of the conversation with his father. Why? At this point I couldn’t take the character of Radames seriously anymore. They have reduced him to a submissive laughing stock.
Then, out of nowhere the song “enchantment passing through” starts. The actual conversation between Radames and Aida, and the actual proper timing for these words. This time they actually do finish the song and the words make a bit more sense now. Then there’s “my strongest suit reprise”, which was a beautiful little moment.
Then the “Dance of the robe” scene started, no set anymore, and 10 minutes of noise, african drums, unnecessary dance breaks, count changes, everything clearly had to be changed, at this point I was starting to mourn that I actually paid money to see this. And then at the very end, really coming out of nowhere, in the middle of an added break-dance break, Aida starts the line “with no expectations”. Unfortunately the beautiful leading into that melody is no longer there. But those last 30 seconds were done very well. She and the ensemble sounded great, she did the last high note beautifully and with passion. And suddenly, after 45 minutes, the audience woke up. The (original) ending of that song gave everyone chills. This is what the show could be and should be like. Cheering applause.
After that there was a new scene with ensemble ladies and Aida sitting on stage doing some traditional hymnes acapella. Reasonably beautiful, but unnecessary, but after the bombastic previous moment and just waking up it was a welcome moment.
Then the song “Not me” started. Since everything had to change, this has suddenly become a solo for Radames now. Amneris' and Aida’s parts are completely cut. I was actually wondering where Amneris is at this point. Because this is the song where she usually starts to doubt Radames’ feelings. But perhaps because the romance between Amneris and Radames isn’t shown anyway, they felt they needn’t to show the doubt either? The show really does a poor job in making the romances believable, we as the audience have no idea what the 3 of them actually want from each other and why they are together.
So because Radames is now gullible, naive and submissive, they used the song “Not me” as a solo for him to run around in the streets, and gives all kinds of pots and pans and his possessions to people in the streets. He is not in any way involved in what both ladies want. And by no means an army captain. His singing wasn’t the strongest either.
Then the song “Elaborate Lives” started. The duet between Radames and Aida. But as this show is all about what Aida wants, it is no longer Radames’ song with Aida joining at the end, but this time it’s Aida’s song, what she wants, with him just joining at the end. It made sense, because with the way this new Radames is, it wouldn’t fit for him to make a statement like this. And it wouldn’t make sense for Aida to listen to a man for 2 minutes. But this song was beautiful. It actually was the best live version of this song that I have heard. Little tweaks in the arrangement and it gave me goosebumps. Also because of the way she sang it. This was the 2nd moment in the show that I enjoyed.
Then act 1 ended with “The Gods love Nubia”. They really butchered this song. All the beautiful chords were removed, it was made lower so they could add a strange modulation with dry drums and a beat, it sounded like an acoustic jam session in a local pub. Some parts had no accompaniment at all, except an african drum on a weird r&b beat. And then, the last 20 seconds were back to the original and the whole ensemble sang that little part (without interruptions in far fetched rhythms and counting), and miraculously, at the very end, goosebumps again. So that was the 3rd moment I enjoyed. Intermission.
I was very confused at intermission and when I spoke to people who have never seen the show before they said that the first 50 minutes were dragging, boring and confusing too.
Maybe I would have left at intermission if it wasn’t for those 3 little beautiful moments.
The second act started.
Again, not opening with a song, but with a dragging, boring acted scene without music. Radames suddenly calls her “Aida”, I think they just forgot to add the scene where he actually finds out that she is Aida. Very weird. The scene is with Amneris, Zoser, Radames and a bunch of ensemble people in what looks like a conference room/court. But it was hard to tell because it was just an empty stage with a curtain. They decide to kidnap Aida’s mother.
Then the song “A step too far” starts. Black staging with 3 spots, which looked and sounded terrific, they added extra music at the end of the song, so the 3 part harmony is now extended. Not necessary, not bad either. I kind of enjoyed it. The 2nd act should have started with this song.
Then there is a very messy couple of scenes with the letter to aida, another cut song, Radames doesn’t sing the letter out loud anymore, and Aida visits her mother in her cell, and her mother is angry with Aida (very poorly acted scene) for having an affair with the enemy. Then there is a fight between Aida and Radames on an empty stage where she scolds and belittles him with lines like “Why were you just standing there like a fruit”, “you weak softy”, etc. And then Radames walks off and says: Don’t worry Aida, I will save your mother”.
Then Aida sings “Easy as life”. We are not sure what is easy or what she is up to, the song is about her having to let him go, but in the scene before she sent him away anyway. Wonderfully sung though. Very well acted. Another goosebumps moment.
Then the song “Like father, like son” started. Again, off key. Annoying and unnecessary dance breaks. Then Mereb and Aida come on and Mereb stabs Zoser and he dies, and this whole scene seems to come straight out of a primary school play. All without music, but with a lot of moaning and sounds, made by the actors. People were rolling with their eyes. So at this point all characters are mad at each other.
Then there was another moment with hymnes, acapella. Unnecessary but more soothing than the 2 scenes before.
The following 3 songs: How I know you reprise, Written in the Stars and I know the truth” were basically the same as the previous version, musicality and staging-wise. I especially enjoyed “I know the truth”. She sung it very loudly (which I normally do not like), she added a lot of stuff and high notes. But she did it very well and it was impressive. It became a show-stopping number. Goosebumps. Big applause from everyone.
Then there is the ceremonial scene with the death sentence. We don’t know when Amneris actually spoke to Radames in the entire show, we don’t know what’s going on with the mother, one moment Radames and Aida are in a fight, the next moment they sing a love song, so much has changed and shifted that the whole story and character-arcs are butchered.
They are sentenced to death, buried together, which is beautifully done with a sort of hour glass projection. They sing an acapella version of Elaborate lives, but they do a line each, taking turns per line. And then they are suddenly in the present time with modern clothes, but without music again.
I think I enjoyed the 2nd act a little more. But I was still very confused afterwards. I think the show has a very, very bad director and that the production should get its priorities straight. In the program booklet there are several people hired such as: Ethnic profilation coach. But what is actually the point if the show is not good? I think that A LOT needs to be changed in order to put this on Broadway or West End.
Has anyone else seen it?
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Post by steve10086 on Apr 30, 2023 15:28:38 GMT
OMG that all sounds absolutely terrible 😢
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Post by viserys on Apr 30, 2023 15:59:46 GMT
Thank you for your extensive review, dan28. I saw the original version in Scheveningen and Essen as well as a (well done) adaptation at a German open air theatre. Music-wise it's one of my all-time favourite musicals and I had very much looked forward to it resurfacing - but everything I've heard about this new version is putting me off and your review may well be the final nail in the coffin. I had been waiting for discounts anyway as we saw Anastasia at the Circustheater for 60 Euro each from excellent front stalls seats, but now I'm not sure I want to spoil my memories of the original at all anymore. |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Apr 30, 2023 16:08:15 GMT
The videos of the production were already putting me off as it looks cheap as hell.
But that review sounds awful. Lots of unnecessary changes which don't make sense from a narrative pov.
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 30, 2023 20:17:25 GMT
Jeezus! What WERE they thinking?! I'm very happy I saw it in NYC back in 2002.
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 30, 2023 20:23:58 GMT
I've not seen the musical, I only know the opera, but even not knowing how it was previously the review makes the new version sound like an absolute mess & if it comes to the West End I doubt I'll want to see it.
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Post by shownut on May 1, 2023 7:05:48 GMT
This sounds godwaful.
I have had the good fortune to see AIDA in its original form at The Alliance Theatre in Atlanta in 1998, the Chicago try-out in 1999 and eventual Broadway bow in 2000. So much heart and soul went into transforming a very interesting, albeit flawed, piece of musical theatre into something unique and very special.
How heartbreaking that the 'powers that be' clearly felt the need to break apart the elements that made this show amazing and revise it into something unrecognizable to those who have long adored it.
After the disaster known as MANDELA and her work on the revision of this piece, I am beginning to think Schele Williams is not a director I am going to become a fan of anytime soon. And if they aim to bring AIDA to London, I hope they revert back to something that resembles the show that had a successful 4 year run on Broadway, spawned national tours and several global productions, not this current production which sounds like a massive misstep.
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Post by mrbarnaby on May 1, 2023 7:26:37 GMT
This is a bit heartbreaking.
I loved the Broadway production and love this score.
That version should have come to London.
However the good thing about Disney is that they are not afraid to bin a production if it’s not working and start again.
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Post by SuttonPeron on May 1, 2023 10:05:22 GMT
Disney love to change stuff for the sake of it, for no apparent reasons. They´ll do everything to make their shows cheap, short and politically correct. I doubt they´ll bin the production. They´ll say it´s "spectacular", "updated" or whatever and call the original version "problematic" or whatever. Hopefully the people here that are upset understand how some of us felt about the last Beauty and the Beast tour or the current Phantom in London.
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Post by theatrefan77 on May 1, 2023 11:09:18 GMT
This sounds terrible. I saw the Broadway production 3 times and loved it. Schele Williams was an original cast member and also understudied Aida. Can't believe she's doing such a terrible job directing this production. Then again, Mandela was a complete and utter mess according to reports. Never got to see it as the performance I was due to attend got cancelled.
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Post by BVM on May 1, 2023 12:24:57 GMT
So, if only to play devil's advocate the writer maintains the score is little changed from the Broadway version:
Less worried re what they do with casting and direction - but I would like the score to be pretty much as per the original as it's epic.
Am also sorry to hear how cheap the set sounds. Not that it surprises me sadly!
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Post by dan28 on May 1, 2023 13:33:19 GMT
Every song has changed arrangements. Many of them have extra drum/street- dance breaks. Tempo changes, pauses in strange moments, different rhythms, different countings, completely newly written parts in songs, new key changes, people are cut from songs, some songs are sung by different characters, often the arrangement is replaced by african drum r&b beats only, different tempo's (mostly slower) and many songs are cut from the show entirely.
There are about 3 songs that sound reasonably similar to the original.
Tim Rice only wrote the lyrics, it is not really fair of him to lie on behalf of Elton John.
Edit: The guy on Twitter asks him if there will be new songs by him (Rice) and Elton John. Perhaps what he meant with his answer is that he did not write new songs? The new songs (the Hymnes) are probably written by someone else and do not have lyrics. He doesn't deny there are changes. He is just answering from his perspective about new songs.
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on May 1, 2023 16:59:23 GMT
I wonder where it’ll go if it’s set for early 2024. Surely that’ll have to be announced soon.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on May 2, 2023 10:20:03 GMT
This has the potential to be the equivalent of 'Rent - Remixed'
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Post by danb on May 2, 2023 10:30:40 GMT
It’s sounding a bit like ‘Bat’ after they took all of the expensive bits out that they didn’t want to tour, and ‘Joseph’ when they dropped the key for Burke. Basically removing the exciting bits. I hope we’re wrong though because I love the score.
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Post by anthony40 on May 2, 2023 12:10:29 GMT
What was wrong with the production that ran on Broadway? I was great! So great in fact, I never forgot it.
If it's good enough for Broadway, why isn't it good enough for over here?
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