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Post by zahidf on Jul 2, 2019 9:11:19 GMT
This about tree sounds AWFUL
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Post by latefortheoverture on Jul 2, 2019 9:16:36 GMT
Just read to find the Tori Allen-Martin and Sarah Henley, who worked for 4 years alongside Idris Elba on Tree were thrown from the project with no warning. The current YV artistic director- Kwame Kwei-Armah- sounds like a bit of an arsehole... Read the letter they have wrote; medium.com/@toriandsarahburnbright/tree-a-story-of-gender-and-power-in-theatre-23b8a2468224They have also started a new initiative to get new works going. Good to see some light come of a dark situation. www.burnbright.org.uk/aboutTruly disgusting behaviour from Kwame and the YV team. Really has made me have second thoughts on the venue, won't lie! |
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Post by Rukaya on Jul 2, 2019 9:32:45 GMT
This about tree sounds AWFUL It doesn't just sound awful, it IS awful. Certainly put me right off the YV. |
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Post by zahidf on Jul 2, 2019 9:41:13 GMT
This about tree sounds AWFUL It doesn't just sound awful, it IS awful. Certainly put me right off the YV. Yup. Have to say, it's put me right off them if that's how they treat lesser known creative's. |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 2, 2019 9:46:18 GMT
Yup. Eye-opening - especially as all the publicity about Tree makes it sound like a new project that Kwame Kwei-Armah created and brought in as the new artistic director. If you didn't know the history you'd have no idea that Tori and Sarah were ever involved, or that David Lan was the one who got the YV involved initially.
Surely some sort of 'based on a story by' credit should be given to the originators?
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Post by david on Jul 2, 2019 9:56:30 GMT
Yup. Eye-opening - especially as all the publicity about Tree makes it sound like a new project that Kwame Kwei-Armah created and brought in as the new artistic director. If you didn't know the history you'd have no idea that Tori and Sarah were ever involved, or that David Lan was the one who got the YV involved initially. Surely some sort of 'based on a story by' credit should be given to the originators? I'm watching the production in Manchester on Saturday. I'll be interested to see if the original writers are credited in any way in the programme notes. It's a horrible way to be treated as they have spent so much time, energy and passion bringing this production to an audience. |
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Post by xanady on Jul 2, 2019 10:00:53 GMT
Absolutely horrendous...of course the other side of the story should be heard,but if true,this is yet another example of very poor practise in the industry....
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Post by Fleance on Jul 2, 2019 10:02:13 GMT
I was thinking of booking for Tree, but it is basically an all-standing play and not possible to book a seat on the Young Vic website. I cannot stand for the length of a play. It's a shame that a theater that once seemed so inclusive is excluding a portion of the theater-going public; or at any rate, making us second-class citizens by restricting how we must book (I think I can phone to make special arrangements for the few available seats).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 10:08:30 GMT
Yup. Eye-opening - especially as all the publicity about Tree makes it sound like a new project that Kwame Kwei-Armah created and brought in as the new artistic director. If you didn't know the history you'd have no idea that Tori and Sarah were ever involved, or that David Lan was the one who got the YV involved initially. Yes, for instance see this joint interview with Kwei-Armah and Elba www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/jun/24/idris-elba-kwame-kwei-armah-tree-interview-bereavement |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 10:17:51 GMT
There were a very few actual seats available for £10 at the Young Vic when it originally went on sale. I was afraid of it being Here Lies Love The Sequel so I quickly nabbed one for myself. Current debating between just not going, or going but making a tiny scene at the curtain call.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 2, 2019 11:24:41 GMT
Horrendous, and not the first time I've heard rumours about Kwame stealing other artists' work with proper attribution. (Though Victoria Sadler has been accused of abuse by multiple women so she's the last person who should be throwing stones.)
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Post by zahidf on Jul 2, 2019 11:35:45 GMT
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Post by Nelly on Jul 2, 2019 11:36:07 GMT
Wow. That was a really tough read and definitley brave.
Surely the YV or someone involved has to make a statement on this? Hopefully this gains traction too.
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Post by lynette on Jul 2, 2019 12:00:16 GMT
Well gonna take a pretty convincing argument, Kwame, to counter the one the two women have put forward. I read the account posted on twitter. I’m wondering and just wondering, no basis in anything, would this have happened to a couple of men and is it made worse by one of the women being white? I ask because I think that two men might well have experienced the same and I do know of a project that was deemed tricky because it involved a white writer writing a seemingly black story. The project was dropped. What strikes me is number of different levels of engagement required and I expect many such original work has to negotiate all the agencies. But one big question: where does the money come from for this particular play? Out of the Young Vic coffers, sponsorship or what? 'Follow the money' an American once told me, was the mantra for intelligence work. Same in the Arts.
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 2, 2019 12:46:43 GMT
where does the money come from for this particular play? A Young Vic, Manchester International Festival and Green Door Pictures co-production. In association with Eleanor Lloyd Productions, Bob Benton for Anthology Theatre, Eilene Davidson Productions and Dawn Smalberg for Ragovoy Entertainment. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 14:16:06 GMT
I can't wait for CHF et al to wade in....
On a more serious note, if we can believe all that's written, this does sound truly awful. And the two ladies come across as intelligent, sincere, brave and eloquent in the article they wrote. I do hope they get a resolution to the awful way they seem to have been treated.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 2, 2019 14:27:57 GMT
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Post by Stasia on Jul 2, 2019 14:32:48 GMT
Are you comfortable with the director's response? It reminds me of all the news stories and films and everything where the "big guys" are against the "poor girls" who are defending the truth... But I am struggling with words to say my thoughts on this eloquently.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Jul 2, 2019 14:43:10 GMT
"as I sat next to my fathers deathbed" ... Sod the Tree thing, lets make a play of this exchange. The two "parties" either side of a stage, lighting flits from one to another through the exchange of emails (white lights), phone calls (orange lights) twitter words (blue lights). A small set of musicians at the back of the stage, perhaps in appropriate dress for the piece - perhaps during the different dialogue from each party a building drum beat ... then a paddling pool of jelly is pushed centre stage and they fight.
Anyone wanna steal that. Kwame? Kwame?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 2, 2019 14:43:31 GMT
On a flippant note, please can he learn to use the word 'and' rather than just 'n'...
On a serious note, his account of things doesn't sound as credible as Tori and Sarah's version of events. Of course, the truth may well be somewhere between the two. But it is a right mess and should never have been allowed to get to this stage without a fair resolution.
It is doing institutional damage to the Young Vic - which is never desirable.
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Post by sf on Jul 2, 2019 14:44:22 GMT
Are you comfortable with the director's response? It reminds me of all the news stories and films and everything where the "big guys" are against the "poor girls" who are defending the truth... But I am struggling with words to say my thoughts on this eloquently.
That's exactly it. I found the reference to his dying father particularly unpleasant - everyone experiences bereavement at some point, and it isn't an excuse.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 2, 2019 14:47:39 GMT
Is it me, or did he throw Idris under the bus a bit?
And I really don't get how 'I am interested in producing this project but only if it's a totally different project' works - surely if it's really a totally different project you tell them 'sorry, this is not going to work, we're doing something else instead' and don't keep the same basic outline and, err, actual title of the previous project?
The interest was generated by the workshop they produced. If they were only meant to be involved for a workshop surely their contract should have stipulated that? Why send them production dates and say you want them to write another draft and then not actually meet with them - it doesn't matter how complex it is to schedule a date, if you're committed to working with people you find a way to do it, you make sure to give them enough time to free up their diaries, you don't just proceed on your own without them.
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Post by hal9000 on Jul 2, 2019 14:47:43 GMT
A public discussion in a venue of their choice? Oh vomit. How about industrial action, Kwame?
He sounds like Taylor Swift in the midst of her latest celebrity feud, washing her dirty laundry on social media in order to create a narrative that will gain public sympathy.
Because a “public discussion” only benefits the most powerful party, the one with the greatest influence on the press and the most pull on audiences. That party is not the two female writers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 14:55:53 GMT
On a flippant note, please can he learn to use the word 'and' rather than just 'n'... The text of his tweet is 279 characters long, there isn't space to turn a single one of those 'n's into an 'and' without sacrificing his word choice, and while some people will choose to sacrifice their phrasing in a social media post in order to make it fit into the box, there's nothing *that* criticisable about choosing to use abbreviations in order to maintain the message as one wishes to deliver it. I agree with whoever said the truth almost certainly lies somewhere in between the two accounts. I think he's going to "win" at the end of the day, even though some parts of his response letter are really not great, because the person in the position of power usually does, but one does hope that it's one of those things where the involved parties work together towards a resolution than battle against each other. The Young Vic is too good a theatre for dodgy dealings and public squabbles, please let this just be a single horrible blip... |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 2, 2019 15:05:41 GMT
I think he's going to "win" at the end of the day, even though some parts of his response letter are really not great, because the person in the position of power usually does, but one does hope that it's one of those things where the involved parties work together towards a resolution than battle against each other. The Young Vic is too good a theatre for dodgy dealings and public squabbles, please let this just be a single horrible blip... Read more: theatreboard.co.uk/post/298234/edit#ixzz5sX6OkpGSSadly this is all too true - but you'd hope airing this publicly would at least make people realise that they have to be specific in contracts and keep lines of communication open about what's happening when things change. You can't tell people they're going to be writing the next draft and then *not* give them the chance to write the next draft - you should definitely be telling people before a show is announced if their name is no longer going to be on it. Really you should be giving them a pay-or-play clause so that they're compensated for their work if the project moves out from under them for any reason - or how can any emerging writer afford to work?! |
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