Support For New British Musicals?

[showgirl]

It's obvious, merely from the number of posts, that the Musicals section is way more popular than any other on this board and within that section there is much discussion of Broadway (which doesn't interest me unless/until the show comes to the UK but I understand that many other members are keen followers) and for more mainstream, large-scale British musicals, but the support for the smaller-scale, home-grown variety seems much patchier and more selective, which puzzles and concerns me, so I'm wondering if others can suggest reasons for this?

Three of the best productions I've seen this year (in any category) have been new British musicals:  Mrs Henderson Presents; Princess Caraboo (previously workshopped/tried out and currently at the Finborough for its final week) and Laila, a touring production by Rifco Arts.

Now, I am aware that the first of these began in Bath, has had a reasonable West End run and has been extensively discussed here, but what about the other two?  It's not that people here don't go to musicals on the fringe/off-West-End as anything at the Landor and Union (to name just two venues) gets a lot of coverage, and  plays at the Finborough receive some, so it can't be lack of awareness of the theatres themselves.

People here also attend productions throughout the UK, including in Watford, where I saw Laila, and Birmingham, the next location on its tour - so again, it can't be the location/venue which is under the radar.

I do start threads at times but I've only just seen the second two musicals so it's a little late and besides, surely others here must have seen one or the other by now?  Which leaves me clueless re the lack of mention, but I'm sure others will have ideas and I'd like to hear them.

[Stasia]

I guess, it depends on: who saw that particular show and who wants to discuss or inform. For instance, I saw a musical called Something Something Lazarus in March at the king's Head. I didn't like it and decided it is not worth mentioning here.
And when "I saw the announcement of Jest End I created a topic (on the previous board) as it was something to my taste and something I wanted to share with others.
There is no point in mechanically creating new threads for all the fringe shows, maybe they won't interest anyone from here.
Maybe there is a need in a thread with "there is something small, fringe and short-run so don't miss it" with only announcements of what every member thinks worth visiting? And then if someone sees the show and decides it is worth discussing, he or she will create a separate thread?

[viserys]

I think small musicals are getting discussed as well, I remember a lot of talk about "The Clockmaker's Daughter" last year and right now it seems several people have gone and seen "Miss Atomic Bomb". So why not just start a thread on any new musical that has tickled your interest and see what responses you get? No harm done if there are none and the thread slips into oblivion.

"Big" shows of course reach more people and when it comes to Broadway shows such as Hamilton, people can easily form an opinion based on the CD, clips online, etc. so it's easier to talk about these shows even without having seen them than about a completely unknown new show.

Personally I'm one of the "tourists" who come to London three or (by now) four times a year, so I always have to make the most of each trip and usually end up seeing whatever "big" shows are new plus some plays. I wish I had more time to visit small fringe theatres as well and maybe discussions here would raise my awareness (I wish I had seen the Clockmaker's Daughter) but there's only so much time and money going around and when it comes down to it, I rather see something that has at least made it to the West End and/or has a star name attached than a completely unknown quantity on the fringe.

[Deleted]

There are two major issues: a new British musical in a tiny venue may only perform to as many audience members across its entire run as a major Broadway musical may perform to in a weekend, so already there are far fewer possible participants in a discussion, and a new British musical is often just not very good. I've heard brilliant things about Princess Caraboo, and anyone who's been here longer than this forum has will know how well-loved The Clockmaker's Daughter was, but when the state of the British musical is more often a Miss Atomic Bomb or an I Can't Sing, then the best will in the world can't support it more than it deserves.

I don't really know much about what opportunities there are for developing and supporting the development of new British musicals, but I feel like the UK needs more. As audience members, we really can only go so far.

Actually, one reason I don't see musicals as much as I'd like to is because, on the West End at least, they operate as far as possible as open-ended runs. When I see a play is coming and the closing date is BLAH, then I know I need to make space for it before BLAH comes around. The optimism of musicals means they don't open with a closing date in mind ("booking to" dates don't count), so I don't feel I have to worry about them too quickly, then by the time they realise they're not going to be extending beyond their next "booking to" date, I no longer have the spare time to fit them in. If they were more willing to sell themselves explicitly as a close-ended run, then extend if necessary, rather than hoping to extend but then not doing so, then I'd be much more proactive about getting to them. Miss Henderson Presents has come fairly close to that by saying "limited engagement" on the posters, but by leaving the announcement of the closing date to fairly recently rather than saying from the beginning "look, we're just not going past June 18th" from the off, the implication that they would have liked to extend just took some of the psychological pressure off, and here we have another new British musical that I just don't have time to see. No one will mind if you say "actually, we were wrong, we've been really successful so we're going to extend instead of closing", surely, rather than pussyfooting around the whole thing?

[HereForTheatre]

What i think this forum is doing quite well at the moment is having a good mix of discussions. West End Musicals are probably the most talked about shows, but they are also the most seen so it figures. However, I think there is great representation on the board of Regional Theatre and Fringe Theatre. We certainly encourage people to start threads and discussions about any type of theatre or show so would welcome people making threads about any new British musicals that are happening.

[westendcub]

Funny you should mention ‘Princess Caraboo’ which I saw last week and thought it was an excellent musical of quality out on the fringe and I seriously hope it has a life after Finborough as it’s a rarely told story (there is a film that came out in 1994 but have not seen this).

I thought the songs were excellent throughout (memorable) and use of that tiny stage clever but I didn’t start a thread on it because currently due to the small size of the venue I don’t imagine the vast percentage of forum members will have seen it (admittedly if I had seen much earlier in the run in March, I would have likely set-up a thread to get some attention on it and say go see everyone if you can!).

It’s hard to judge, can be a little disheartening to set-up a thread and no one actually respond!! I’m lucky that I currently live in London and use it to my advantage to go see fringe when possible to do so (I have even travelled out to Zone 6, not every Londoner is prepared to do so to even see friends!!) but living out of London it is much harder to see and back when I lived in the burbs I admittedly came to see the bigger shows when I ventured into the big smoke!

[danb]

I think it's similar to why people are more inclined to take a chance on a musical based on a film or novel that they know rather than a totally new entity. It's all about risk and investment.

[David J]

Apr 18, 2016 11:34:08 GMT westendcub said:

I didn’t start a thread on it because currently due to the small size of the venue I don’t imagine the vast percentage of forum members will have seen it (admittedly if I had seen much earlier in the run in March, I would have likely set-up a thread to get some attention on it and say go see everyone if you can!).

I've actually set up a thread theatreboard.proboards.com/thread/581/princess-caraboo-finborough. Such a shame it has been pushed back so much in the last 9 days

There's plenty of shows I don't create threads about. I could talk about the productions at the Watermill Theatre if I wasn't the only person near enough to go regularly. On the other hand saw All-Star Production's Out of this World yesterday, but have no interest really to make a thread. An acceptable production but nothing I'd recommend anyone rushing up to Walthamstow for.

[BurlyBeaR]

I think we still have a misconception amongst some members that this forum is intended for discussion of the London theatre scene and that threads relating to the regions have somehow snuck in and been allowed to remain.

No.  

We are here to discuss UK theatre, good and bad, wherever it may be performed.  This is one of the reasons I don't support the idea of a seperate section for Regional where what some perceive as the "poor relations" huddle together for warmth in order to have their little chats about Sheffield, Glasgow, Cardiff or wherever.

All I can say, on behalf of the whole admin team, is that if you've seen something outside of London please post about it and give us the opportunity to read and respond. I know it's disheartening to make a thread that appears not to chime with other people and dies a death but really, no-one's judging. Just carry on posting, you could be creating a thread about the next huge hit!

[freckles]

I'm all for new musicals being discussed,I see a lot of fringe theatre myself and will always start a thread if there isn't one for something I've seen - or even am thinking of seeing. But as they are often in small venues, audiences are very limited so not as many people join the discussion. So the thread drops down the list and takes some hunting out. That doesn't mean we should stop posting though, sometimes a conversation gains traction, and I for one am interested.

[Deleted]

Yes, I'm all for starting threads on anything! I've seen a few obscurities following recommendations here. Also now we are publicly viewable threads on fringe shows will presumably show up on google searches about them, and any free publicity is good publicity.

[Hamilton Addict]

Apr 18, 2016 11:57:11 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

I think we still have a misconception amongst some members that this forum is intended for discussion of the London theatre scene and that threads relating to the regions have somehow snuck in and been allowed to remain.

No.  

We are here to discuss UK theatre, good and bad, wherever it may be performed.  This is one of the reasons I don't support the idea of a seperate section for Regional where what some perceive as the "poor relations" huddle together for warmth in order to have their little chats about Sheffield, Glasgow, Cardiff or wherever.

All I can say, on behalf of the whole admin team, is that if you've seen something outside of London please post about it and give us the opportunity to read and respond. I know it's disheartening to make a thread that appears not to chime with other people and dies a death but really, no-one's judging. Just carry on posting, you could be creating a thread about the next huge hit!

I'm kind of confused on what people talk about here because I've seen a few threads about films (not film adaptions of plays, just random topics about films, such as cinema credits going on for too long). Also don't know whether to start a thread about a closed show (I was thinking of starting a Sweeney Todd thread).

[BurlyBeaR]

Apr 18, 2016 12:15:07 GMT Hamilton Addict said:

Apr 18, 2016 11:57:11 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

I think we still have a misconception amongst some members that this forum is intended for discussion of the London theatre scene and that threads relating to the regions have somehow snuck in and been allowed to remain.

No.  

We are here to discuss UK theatre, good and bad, wherever it may be performed.  This is one of the reasons I don't support the idea of a seperate section for Regional where what some perceive as the "poor relations" huddle together for warmth in order to have their little chats about Sheffield, Glasgow, Cardiff or wherever.

All I can say, on behalf of the whole admin team, is that if you've seen something outside of London please post about it and give us the opportunity to read and respond. I know it's disheartening to make a thread that appears not to chime with other people and dies a death but really, no-one's judging. Just carry on posting, you could be creating a thread about the next huge hit!

I'm kind of confused on what people talk about here because I've seen a few threads about films (not film adaptions of plays, just random topics about films, such as cinema credits going on for too long). Also don't know whether to start a thread about a closed show (I was thinking of starting a Sweeney Todd thread).

You can talk about anything in the General section, including non-theatre related (that's why it says "you can talk about anything here").

If you want to create a thread about Sweeney Todd in the musicals section, go for it. We had threads about a couple of different productions in the old board, it would good to have a thread about it here. 

[Deleted]

If you want to start a discussion thread, pick the most appropriate board, and get posting! The cinema ones tend to be in General Chat, or if the intent of the discussion is directly linked to Musicals I suppose they end up in Musicals, and as we have a General Chat board, there's literally no end of possible discussions. We could talk about marsupials or the Brexit or tea if we really wanted to, as long as we kept it in General Chat and kept it civil.

[Hamilton Addict]

Thanks for the info everyone!

[Michael]

Apr 18, 2016 11:57:11 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

I think we still have a misconception amongst some members that this forum is intended for discussion of the London theatre scene and that threads relating to the regions have somehow snuck in and been allowed to remain.

No.  

We are here to discuss UK theatre, good and bad, wherever it may be performed.  This is one of the reasons I don't support the idea of a seperate section for Regional where what some perceive as the "poor relations" huddle together for warmth in order to have their little chats about Sheffield, Glasgow, Cardiff or wherever.

All I can say, on behalf of the whole admin team, is that if you've seen something outside of London please post about it and give us the opportunity to read and respond. I know it's disheartening to make a thread that appears not to chime with other people and dies a death but really, no-one's judging. Just carry on posting, you could be creating a thread about the next huge hit!

I'd even go further and say it's not only limited to UK theatre but any theatre. Yes, the vast majority of our users is from the UK so it's more likely that anyone else will have seen this production as well, but there are also a couple of other nations here.
Also, many of us fly regularly to New York, so if you've seen a (new) show on Broadway, I can only encourage you to start a new thread about it and post your thoughts. Similarly, if you've seen a (new) show in another country, post about it. Others will read it and maybe think "that sounds interesting, I need to see this".

[littlesally]

Is anyone else seeing Flowers for Mrs Harris at The Crucible?

[westendcub]

I wanted to go with a friend but the date he proposed I am away in the Midlands for a production of 'Made in Dagenham' and Birmingham Pride so sadly missing out on this but it sounds lovely!

[Hamilton Addict]

Apr 18, 2016 12:23:26 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Apr 18, 2016 12:15:07 GMT Hamilton Addict said:

I'm kind of confused on what people talk about here because I've seen a few threads about films (not film adaptions of plays, just random topics about films, such as cinema credits going on for too long). Also don't know whether to start a thread about a closed show (I was thinking of starting a Sweeney Todd thread).

You can talk about anything in the General section, including non-theatre related (that's why it says "you can talk about anything here").

If you want to create a thread about Sweeney Todd in the musicals section, go for it. We had threads about a couple of different productions in the old board, it would good to have a thread about it here. 

Too late, I think someone saw my post here and beat me to it. All well, you snooze you lose.