3,470 posts
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Post by ceebee on Jul 9, 2021 7:10:57 GMT
It's fascinating to hear "The Vanquishing of the Three-Headed Sea Witch" - I can't help feeling that this would work really well in the show. It makes so much sense now that the early previews felt so clunky with the entrance of Prince Charming. The removal of this song is what unbalanced the second half, as it stripped out his story, and on hearing it my view is that this is a directorial failing (rather than it being a bad song). This song would have brought the quirkiness and mystery around Prince Charming to the fore and would have suited the occasional weirdness of the show. My hunch is that the director lacked the imagination to find an effective way to shoehorn this into the show. It would be a richer show with this song included, as it is possibly the ultimate showstopper.
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Jul 9, 2021 7:38:34 GMT
It's fascinating to hear "The Vanquishing of the Three-Headed Sea Witch" - I can't help feeling that this would work really well in the show. It makes so much sense now that the early previews felt so clunky with the entrance of Prince Charming. The removal of this song is what unbalanced the second half, as it stripped out his story, and on hearing it my view is that this is a directorial failing (rather than it being a bad song). This song would have brought the quirkiness and mystery around Prince Charming to the fore and would have suited the occasional weirdness of the show. My hunch is that the director lacked the imagination to find an effective way to shoehorn this into the show. It would be a richer show with this song included, as it is possibly the ultimate showstopper. Summed up really well. It's not a good song, but it's what the show needs at that point. (It's a bit like one of Seth Lakeman's sea-shanty style story-songs; I can hear him singing it in a more folky arrangement.) |
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Post by Mark on Jul 9, 2021 8:09:25 GMT
It's fascinating to hear "The Vanquishing of the Three-Headed Sea Witch" - I can't help feeling that this would work really well in the show. It makes so much sense now that the early previews felt so clunky with the entrance of Prince Charming. The removal of this song is what unbalanced the second half, as it stripped out his story, and on hearing it my view is that this is a directorial failing (rather than it being a bad song). This song would have brought the quirkiness and mystery around Prince Charming to the fore and would have suited the occasional weirdness of the show. My hunch is that the director lacked the imagination to find an effective way to shoehorn this into the show. It would be a richer show with this song included, as it is possibly the ultimate showstopper. Just listened and it’s a fun song and I agree, it does add a lot to the Prince Charming story. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Jul 9, 2021 8:31:16 GMT
Can't help but wonder at what point during the show yesterday the teachers accompanying the 30-40 school kids started to regret their decision to see that particular production :')
Also sad that the bows have been cut down a little. I rather liked the small bit of dancing, and the melodies for more of the principals. Guess it's been shortened for time.
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Post by max on Jul 9, 2021 8:31:34 GMT
Did some lucky dip listening late last night. Thought the opening was really effective (Buns'n'Roses) and found a lot of charm in the first song between Cinderella & Sebastian (So Long). That one (along with the single version of 'Far Too Late - not on the album) have a McCartney/Cat Stevens lilt, which surprised me and I like a lot. I don't think ALW is desperately trying to match 'Six' and others, as some of us wondered. It feels like an eccentric amalgam of his own life in/around music.
Context - as I didn't want to go to bed on an argument I swerved any songs I didn't instantly like. I may go and see it, and not listen ahead of that.
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Post by singingbird on Jul 9, 2021 8:48:05 GMT
On Twitter I've seen some declaring it their new favourite musical, and describing the score as "beautiful"; one said they get hugely involved in shows and this delivered 'and then some'. Some cried, laughed, and cried again. Others seeing CHF character as a metaphor for being LGBTQ+. I'm not using those to counter any view, or to invite those assertions to be exploded (because they quite easily are no doubt). Just interested to know if any who've found it woeful can see what others might really love about it. Because it seems for some it's sooooo far out it would be quite hard to begin to see how others would like it - other than that they've got terrible taste (which I know most of us wouldn't want to say, as it's patronising) Edit/Added: I should offer that an equivalent for me is Mamma Mia. I couldn't understand how anyone could like it; that the last time I'd been in that theatre I was watching 'Evita' (staging influenced by the staging of Brecht's mentor Erwin piscator), and the only moment MM truly took off was when stadium girders flew in for the finale giving the audience the experience they really wanted and could have had in an 80s themed bar for a tenth of the price. Other things I can say 'not my cup of tea' but understand others' liking for it, but not that. This is such an interesting question, and something I've really wondered about. There are many shows (e.g. Dear Evan Hansen) that I personally don't warm to, but generally I can see why they work. As a composer and writer who has worked on various musical theatre shows I find myself looking at shows from an academic POV as much as a theatre-fan one and usually I feel I can understand what makes a show popular even if I don't like it. (Translating that to my own writing is a whole other matter, sadly!) Having just listened through to the Cinderella recording, to see if I liked it any more than I did in the theatre, I find myself still quite bemused by it. I honestly don't feel it works in terms of energy, narrative flow, musical flow and strength of character. There are things that I can clearly put down to personal taste - the orchestrations (e.g. Unfair sounds like music lifted from a dated video game set in a fairy-tale world - not the high production values I'm used to from ALW concept albums), and the humour. But I also, for once, can't quite grasp what it is that people who like it are getting from it. The 'outsider finds acceptance/love/a place in the world' idea is done so much better in Wicked, say (or, indeed, Dear Evan Hansen). But I guess that's always a perennially popular trope, and if people also find the humour connects with them (and they're less nerdy about things like orchestration than me!) then bingo. One thing I will say, though, is I'm delighted they love it. I love people loving theatre. I hope it's a hit and hundreds of people leave with big happy faces! |
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Post by singingbird on Jul 9, 2021 8:50:49 GMT
It's fascinating to hear "The Vanquishing of the Three-Headed Sea Witch" - I can't help feeling that this would work really well in the show. It makes so much sense now that the early previews felt so clunky with the entrance of Prince Charming. The removal of this song is what unbalanced the second half, as it stripped out his story, and on hearing it my view is that this is a directorial failing (rather than it being a bad song). This song would have brought the quirkiness and mystery around Prince Charming to the fore and would have suited the occasional weirdness of the show. My hunch is that the director lacked the imagination to find an effective way to shoehorn this into the show. It would be a richer show with this song included, as it is possibly the ultimate showstopper. Completely agree. I can't tell you how much I wish this show had a different director - someone with a flair for what theatre can do... |
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Post by fluxcapacitor on Jul 9, 2021 8:57:02 GMT
Saw this last night, and whilst I really wanted to like it it just fell a bit flat and got a bit confused overall for me. It ultimately suffers from the same problem a lot of Cinderella adaptations reach - the Act 1 narrative is strong and sets everything up nicely, but there's just nowhere to go in Act 2. Classically, the second act of Cinders is just the ball and then the trying on of the slipper - and any attempt to extend that always feels forced. I found the same here, with tangents and additions in Act 2 feeling long and unnecessary. There are a few lovely moments ("Only You, Lonely You" in Act 1 being a particular highlight for me, and Michael Hamway nails it) but there are just too many threads that just don't work or are only half thought out. Specifically, for anyone who's seen it: The Godmother feels massively wide of the mark. I get what they're trying to do with her, but she comes across as a bit of a baddie and the thread with Cinderella's locket goes nowhere. Her warnings of "be back by midnight" also bear no link to the rest of the storyline. The midnight deadline minus any magic is covered very well by the announcement of the prince's bride being made at that time. What the godmother does has no time limit, and the focus on midnight in her song feels like a real lack of connection between the book (which finds a successful workaround to the plot device) and the lyricist (who's trying to shoehorn in the traditional warning from the godmother for no reason.)
Cinderella's journey also just stops a bit still after the ball. As soon as she "gives in" and declares she wants to be beautiful to find love, they back her into a corner and she's never really redeemed. Everything just falls into place around her.
And whilst I love the message of marrying for love when the real prince Charming finally arrives, the ease with which the Queen accepts him undoes any need he had for running away in the first place. It could work, it's just glossed over so quickly that you're left with way too many questions. Ditto to the "history" between the stepmother and the Queen, which is presented as some massive dirt the stepmother has over her which she never wants revealed... only to be thrown away with literally one line: "Nobody cares" in the second act.
Performance-wise, the cast are very good but I just didn't get what Victoria Hamilton-Barritt was doing. It feels like she's parachuted in from a different show. It's highly entertaining at times, but for me it was very much in a "what the hell is going on" way! One nice surprise was literally gliding passed the Lord himself when the seating moved. He seemed to be enjoying himself and was wearing a mask - despite personally making a worryingly casual announcement to say you could "wear a mask if you want" before the show... (isn't it still a legal requirement?!) |
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Post by singingbird on Jul 9, 2021 8:58:21 GMT
Thanks Steve10086. In his earliest shows (certainly JCS and Evita, and Aspects) I felt that while there were great main songs it was the music 'in between' that really excited me. Could include moments in Cats too. That was where some stunning quality and innovation was. More recently that connective material hasn't been so strong (WIW), and the musical voice lacking surprise/originality that was often found in between. I'll be interested to hear/see this. [Actually some in between/recitative in Aspects does plod but 'Falling' is a stunning bit of writing] CHF does have a passionate following. Not knowing her much before, I've come to like her very much on her youtube videos, so that will colour my warmth too I think. Couldn't agree more. The 'in-between' bits are always my favourite bits in ALW shows - especially Evita, which is chock-full of really interestingly composed musical scenes, between the more famous stand-alone songs. I think elements of this remain in Sunset (which I love) and Whistle Down the Wind, and Falling in Aspects is my absolute favourite part of that score - it's chilling. But this element of ALW's writing has got watered down more and more over the years. I don't know why. Maybe it was simply youthful vigour, swagger and a healthy disregard for convention. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Jul 9, 2021 9:15:53 GMT
Okay I'm listening to the album and it's just occurred to me: {Spoiler - click to view}
when Marie tells Cinderella to go and stop the wedding, why on earth does she say it's too late? The bride hasn't even left the house yet... Cinderella could just hitch a ride in the carriage and turn up when Adele does. All she'd have to do is run inside ahead and yell 'STOP'. There is no reason for her to run, or to turn up late. If she really wanted to stop the wedding, she absolutely could. (Admittedly not the biggest plot hole in the show, but now it's going to bother me forever) |
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Post by stuartmcd on Jul 9, 2021 9:26:56 GMT
Just in response to fluxcapacitor about the Godmother’s warning about midnight. I also felt this didn’t really make much sense and there’s been a bit of discussion about this a few pages back. However after listening to the cast recording it has made it a bit clearer.
Spoilers!
The lyrics go
“You will be in agony let me be precise
In this frock by twelve o’clock you will be in torment
Go ahead knock him dead just be home by midnight”
And there’s also references throughout the song about cutting corners and having to skip surgery as they don’t have the time and the work the Godmother does will do until Midnight.
And then during the ball Cinderella days
“Excuse me…please…let me out of here…I can’t breathe…this dress..”
So the idea is that Cinderella will only be able to cope with the work the Godmother has done until midnight at which point it will become unbearable and we see Cinderella tear off parts of the dress and the wig.
And this then also coincides with Sebastian having to choose his bride by that time.
It’s definitely not as ominous as you would think with the Godmother’s warning but the general idea I think is that she will only be able to be “pretty” until midnight at which point it will be too painful to bear.
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Post by max on Jul 9, 2021 9:36:09 GMT
It's fascinating to hear "The Vanquishing of the Three-Headed Sea Witch" - I can't help feeling that this would work really well in the show. It makes so much sense now that the early previews felt so clunky with the entrance of Prince Charming. The removal of this song is what unbalanced the second half, as it stripped out his story, and on hearing it my view is that this is a directorial failing (rather than it being a bad song). This song would have brought the quirkiness and mystery around Prince Charming to the fore and would have suited the occasional weirdness of the show. My hunch is that the director lacked the imagination to find an effective way to shoehorn this into the show. It would be a richer show with this song included, as it is possibly the ultimate showstopper. Completely agree. I can't tell you how much I wish this show had a different director - someone with a flair for what theatre can do... Will their social media team dare to feed back that most Twitter reaction to the Cast Recording release is about a song that's .... no longer in the show. Okay - it's because of Adam Lambert, but the fact the song gives him the fireworks to reach for and 'nail' is an odd thing to forego. Lambert fans may not miss it on stage I guess - they can say: 'aaah, they had to cut it because nobody could do it like Adam' and feel quite good about that. I think 'Already Home' was in and out of 'The Wizard Of Oz' (but do correct me) - might Sea Witch make a late re-entry...? |
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Post by stuartmcd on Jul 9, 2021 9:39:46 GMT
Completely agree. I can't tell you how much I wish this show had a different director - someone with a flair for what theatre can do... Will their social media team dare to feed back that most Twitter reaction to the Cast Recording release is about a song that's .... no longer in the show. Okay - it's because of Adam Lambert, but the fact the song gives him the fireworks to reach for and 'nail' is an odd thing to forego. Lambert fans may not miss it on stage I guess - they can say: 'aaah, they had to cut it because nobody could do it like Adam' and feel quite good about that. I think 'Already Home' was in and out of 'The Wizard Of Oz' (but do correct me) - might Sea Witch make a late re-entry...? Not with the guy currently playing Prince Charming. Maybe he’s improved but his vocals were shaky when I saw it. Can’t see him singing that song. |
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Post by max on Jul 9, 2021 9:42:33 GMT
Can't help but wonder at what point during the show yesterday the teachers accompanying the 30-40 school kids started to regret their decision to see that particular production :') Also sad that the bows have been cut down a little. I rather liked the small bit of dancing, and the melodies for more of the principals. Guess it's been shortened for time. FromTheBoxOffice website quotes age recommendation as "6 +" but I couldn't find anything on the show's own site (though they're doing School rates). I guess they're all 'self-cleaning jokes'? e.g. Is the bird that's on stage being referred to in cross-dialogue - "is that a cock?" - at the same moment the defaced statue is unveiled? I'm guessing that's how they get away with that one. Or did they really go there?! |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Jul 9, 2021 9:59:12 GMT
Can't help but wonder at what point during the show yesterday the teachers accompanying the 30-40 school kids started to regret their decision to see that particular production :') Also sad that the bows have been cut down a little. I rather liked the small bit of dancing, and the melodies for more of the principals. Guess it's been shortened for time. FromTheBoxOffice website quotes age recommendation as "6 +" but I couldn't find anything on the show's own site (though they're doing School rates). I guess they're all "self-cleaning jokes"? e.g. Is the bird that's on stage being referred to in cross-dialogue - "is that a cock?" - at the same moment the defaced statue is unveiled? I'm guessing that's how they get away with that one. Or did they really go there?! The statue defacing has been toned down and that section of dialogue from the album is gone. It never actually made it to the first preview, if I'm recalling correctly. I'd say these kids were maybe 10-12? Don't think quite enough of it went over their heads. I did clock the schools rate tickets before, but I certainly would not take a gaggle of primary school kids :') |
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 9, 2021 10:01:44 GMT
Not sure what’s worse. Not being able to make out a lot of the lyrics on the recording… or making them out and finding things like “a hag no one’s shagged” 🤮
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Post by ceebee on Jul 9, 2021 10:09:55 GMT
The "is that a cock" line was definitely in the first preview.
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3,470 posts
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Post by ceebee on Jul 9, 2021 10:11:28 GMT
Interesting to see references in the thread to Seth Lakeman, Cat Stevens and Paul McCartney. I'd be pretty chuffed if I was ALW to be associated with any of those three.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 9, 2021 10:11:28 GMT
The cast recording shows that this musical has 5 decent songs and the rest is just awful.
So Long, I Am No Longer Me, Unbreakable and Moment of Triump are all TERRIBLE….. with What Were You Thinking the worst of the lot.
ALW / what were you thinking!!!! The ballads are pretty decent. Why is there no duet? Not one.
Imagine if the Six composers or Pasek and Paul has been commissioned this.
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Post by singingbird on Jul 9, 2021 10:13:17 GMT
Just in response to fluxcapacitor about the Godmother’s warning about midnight. I also felt this didn’t really make much sense and there’s been a bit of discussion about this a few pages back. However after listening to the cast recording it has made it a bit clearer. Spoilers! The lyrics go “You will be in agony let me be precise In this frock by twelve o’clock you will be in torment Go ahead knock him dead just be home by midnight” And there’s also references throughout the song about cutting corners and having to skip surgery as they don’t have the time and the work the Godmother does will do until Midnight. And then during the ball Cinderella days “Excuse me…please…let me out of here…I can’t breathe…this dress..” So the idea is that Cinderella will only be able to cope with the work the Godmother has done until midnight at which point it will become unbearable and we see Cinderella tear off parts of the dress and the wig. And this then also coincides with Sebastian having to choose his bride by that time. It’s definitely not as ominous as you would think with the Godmother’s warning but the general idea I think is that she will only be able to be “pretty” until midnight at which point it will be too painful to bear. Thank you! It finally makes sense!! But if it's taken this many people this long to figure out what the Act 1 climax is all about, I'd say there's definitely a problem there! |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Jul 9, 2021 10:14:37 GMT
The "is that a cock" line was definitely in the first preview. I stand corrected! I think I was too busy trying not to laugh at the sheet getting stuck and Ivano trying to help. How no one saw that potential issue coming, I'm really not sure :') |
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Post by alece10 on Jul 9, 2021 10:21:33 GMT
Ive got it on in the background but not really concentrating too much as I am going to see it tonight so just wanted to get a general idea of the music, quite like what I have heard so far.
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Post by ceebee on Jul 9, 2021 10:21:53 GMT
Has anybody with CD/vinyl versions noticed the photo from last year of CHF and Adam Lambert at JCS in Regent's Park? All makes sense now - seemed random at the time.
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3,470 posts
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Post by ceebee on Jul 9, 2021 10:22:23 GMT
Ive got it on in the background but not really concentrating too much as I am going to see it tonight so just wanted to get a general idea of the music, quite like what I have heard so far. Hope you enjoy yourself tonight! |
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 9, 2021 10:46:29 GMT
Not sure what’s worse. Not being able to make out a lot of the lyrics on the recording… or making them out and finding things like “a hag no one’s shagged” 🤮 I'm listening on Apple Music and can read the lyrics as I go, which is quite good. Although I don't think they've been provided by ALW somehow — there are a few spelling mistakes. I don't know why cock and shag etc are in there, they seem unnecessary (the Queen talking about Charming is creepy enough on its own!). I like the teasing chat between Cinders and Sebastian. I'm definitely missing a romantic duet though. I listened to a bit last night then stopped, but I'll listen to the whole thing today. I did skip ahead to the finale and at the end I did get a little tingle after the "You sure about that?" and "good" lines. It's what my sister used to call "kissing music" when we were little (usually as we covered our eyes because it was soooo embarrassing  ). So he can still write it! |
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). So he can still write it!