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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 1, 2019 11:28:34 GMT
Not wishing to detract from the Man of La Mancha thread while people are discussing the reviews, I thought I’d start a separate one.
Not going that well is it? A five year plan to help ENO get back on its feet financially seems to have backfired after the first two productions of Sweeney Todd and Sunset Boulevard both of which did well. Since then it’s been dud after dud with Carousel, Chess and Man of La Mancha all bombing with the critics.
What do we put this down to? Choice of shows? On paper Carousel and Chess would appear to be no brainers. Choice of cast? People seemed generally disappointed with the casting of everything after Sunset. Ticket prices? Lonny Price’s creative decisions?
Would this venture be considered as a success financially at least? If so then do GradeLinnet and the ENO even care about the critical reception of the later productions?
Will/should musical revivals at the ENO continue?
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Post by horton on May 1, 2019 11:31:57 GMT
It seems a case of diminishing returns.
One dud may be deemed unfortunate, but after a while the audience loses faith. Chess seemed like an odd choice because of its pop music sound which was out of place with the more classic musical theatre sound of the other choices.
These shows need to be genuine events and nothing has matched Sweeney or Sunset as unmissable once-in-a-lifetime shows
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Post by QueerTheatre on May 1, 2019 11:36:00 GMT
Not wishing to detract from the Man of La Mancha thread while people are discussing the reviews, I thought I’d start a separate one. Not going that well is it? A five year plan to help ENO get back on its feet financially seems to have backfired after the first two productions of Sweeney Todd and Sunset Boulevard both of which did well. Since then it’s been dud after dud with Carousel, Chess and Man of La Mancha all bombing with the critics. What do we put this down to? Choice of shows? On paper Carousel and Chess would appear to be no brainers. Choice of cast? People seemed generally disappointed with the casting of everything after Sunset. Ticket prices? Lonny Price’s creative decisions? Would this venture be considered as a success financially at least? If so then do GradeLinnet and the ENO even care about the critical reception of the later productions? Will/should musical revivals at the ENO continue? I think it not going well all depends on on ENO did these revivals in the first place? As you say yourself, it was to boost finances, not to get good reviews. If you look closely at any of the Man of La Mancha posters there is no ENO logo at all, so i'd guess the producers are simply paying for the space in which case reviews and sales figures matter not a jot to ENO as their budget is solid either way. I think we'll find out very very soon whether GradeLinnit Musicals will continue at the Coliseum |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 1, 2019 11:43:11 GMT
I'm still to see M. of la Mancha.
Sweeney started off well but Terfel and Price did not come out of it as talented.
Since then I've found them all to be quite naff (yes I wasn't moved by Glen Close). I could quite happily never see another Price directed show but he didn't touch Chess and that was also poor - odd choice of songs that we couldn't hear and poor staging.
Carousel - AB was terrible and so was the production and sound.
I hope ENO can carry on presenting musicals but with a decent production team who represent quality.
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Post by ceebee on May 1, 2019 11:54:34 GMT
Next year, look - it's Martin Guerre...
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 12:08:10 GMT
Sweeney was a success but that was an import of a well-regarded production with a great cast. Similarly Glenn in Sunset had was great casting. Nothing since then has had that "wow" factor.
Problems in my view:
- pricing: the seat prices are obscene for Man of La Mancha, should be 50% of what they are!
- confusing marketing: nobody is sure if these shows are staged or semi-staged. Man of La Mancha has been referred to in some publicity and reviews as "semi staged" but it isn't (the staging is the same as the original Broadway production)
- they alienated people with "watergate" which gave the impression they didn't really want musical audiences in the building. Then tried to get round that by alienating their core Opera audiences with the same rules
- choice of shows - the reviews show there's a reason MoLM hasn't been done for 50 years! I enjoyed it but its a fairly small scale piece so would probably have worked better revived at the Menier or Southwark who may also have done something to address the more dated / offensive aspects of the show
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Post by bobbybaby on May 1, 2019 18:07:27 GMT
I have to say the main attraction of the ENO musicals has been the orchestra. Got a less than half price deal on the day for Sweeney for prime centre stalls. Loved the music,hated the production especially the neon graffiti. And to be honest Emma Thompson neither acted or spoke/sung enough to convince. And Bryn nearly fell off one of the steps to the stage. Loved the Orchestra in Sunset , but that bloody horizontal mannequin ! And as I said if they’d lowered Glenn in on the Man of La Mancha staircase if would have been spectacular. And let’s be honest the turban should have been in her contract. Couldn’t face Carousel or Chess. If I’m honest MOLM was probably best suited as I find it very Operatic in its style, but lost in the space. I’m intrigued to see how On Your Feet will fit. It doesn’t appeal terribly, but the last time I dismissed a jukebox musical it was Jersey Boys and when I went to see it I loved it and it became my benchmark for jukebox shows.
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Post by Phantom of London on May 1, 2019 18:19:51 GMT
Chess and Carousel wasn’t as bad as the press made them out to be, the press love to give you that final shove under a bus when things go badly. Also the press aren’t really judging the show, they’re judging a show’s advertising potential and how much they’re going to spend with them, a limited running show isn’t going to spend muck. I have seen really decent similar shows over the years, suffer a similar fate.
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Post by mrbarnaby on May 1, 2019 18:35:25 GMT
Next year, look - it's Martin Guerre... Don’t joke. The reworked version is due to open at the Old Vic |
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Post by mrbarnaby on May 1, 2019 18:37:07 GMT
They simply don’t know how to stage musicals properly and should STOP. This has to be the nail in the coffin. They don’t have the funds to do then properly in such a huge venue and to treat them as ‘semi staged’ and charge the prices they do is an insult to audiences. Especially if they are as dreadfully done as Carousel and Mancha etc.
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Post by alece10 on May 1, 2019 19:04:20 GMT
I've enjoyed all that I've seen there. Sunset and Chess twice. Only disappointment with Sweeney was the view but I won't make that mistake again.
And I'm looking forward to a bit of Gloria Estefan in June.
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Post by danb on May 1, 2019 19:04:45 GMT
Next year, look - it's Martin Guerre... Don’t joke. The reworked version is due to open at the Old Vic I just put £100 in a high interest account, not to be touched til it goes on sale. |
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Post by distantcousin on May 1, 2019 19:47:36 GMT
Next year, look - it's Martin Guerre... Don’t joke. The reworked version is due to open at the Old Vic I look forward to that! |
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Post by ceebee on May 1, 2019 19:47:46 GMT
Next year, look - it's Martin Guerre... Don’t joke. The reworked version is due to open at the Old Vic Hmmm, I must have missed that in the press release... I saw "A Christmas Carol" and "Local Hero" as my own personal highlights for the new season, but no Martin Guerre. Who is the imposter here? |
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Post by princeton on May 1, 2019 20:09:47 GMT
I agree with Bobbybaby the main strength of these Grade/Linnit/ENO musicals has been the orchestra and the ensemble.
The Sweeney Todd production wasn't a patch on the pie shop version which was on a stone's throw away at the same time. However the orchestra and chorus were top notch and it was packed to the brim with musical theatre talent in the supporting roles (Rosalie Craig, Matthew Season-Young, Alex Gaumond, John Owen-Jones and Philip Quast - the last three of whom would all have been more appropriate casting that the current lead in Man of La Mancha). That said Bryn Terfel and Emma Thompson were bona fide box office gold - and the production only ran for about 15 performances - leading to complete sell out performances well in advance - so it was a pretty good way to kick start the partnership.
Since then they've always had six week runs - and none have ever sold out massively in advance.
Sunset Boulevard had the benefit of a Hollywood star reprising her Tony award-winning performance, in a show what had barely been seen since the original west end production - and certainly never with an orchestra and company as large. It was a lousy production, but became a hit largely because of Glenn Close and those love letter reviews.
There really was no need for another Carousel (opera north had done it recently in a version which came to the Barbican) and certainly not one with lacklustre leads who were dramatically inert - and in another ropey Lonny Price production. But it sounded amazing with a full orchestra and chorus, lots of the dancing/dancers were great - and actors like Gavin Spokes and Alex Young knocked it out of the park.
Chess was fine when it eventually happened - but the delay in announcing the cast meant it had no feel of 'event theatre' - which was the hallmark of both Sweeney and Sunset. But is was brilliantly sung and played - with almost all of the casting decisions seemingly justified.
And Man of La Mancha - well maybe they thought - it's had four Broadway revivals and yet never been done here since the original production (which incidentally ran about 250 performances compared to over 2,300 on Broadway - alarm bells surely) and there's a big song that everyone knows. And whilst I've not seen it - and I'm sure that it's exactly as I imagine - at least the ensemble is made up of some great west end musical theatre actors.
I suspect that Grade and Linnit are not great theatre producers. The Sweeney was a 'drag and drop' from the Lincoln Centre concert production which had starred Terfel and Thompson, and their Sunset was built around someone who had a proven track record with the show. Everything since then has lacked any sort of creative overview. Maybe if they'd chosen different shows, maybe if they'd had better directors (I mean we've got some pretty good ones here in the UK), maybe if some of the casting had been more on point, maybe if they hadn't tried to do such long runs, maybe if they'd fixed the lousy Coliseum sound system, then they could have continued to replicate the earlier successes. As it is the things that have remained strong throughout are the orchestra and the ensemble.
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Post by callum on May 1, 2019 22:00:50 GMT
The Sweeney/Sunset model worked best - glossy prestige Broadway imports with an orchestra and production that could ‘only’ be put on in the London Coliseum.
Something like Jake Gyllenhaal reprising Sunday in the Park with George?
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Post by Being Alive on May 1, 2019 23:08:10 GMT
Next year looks set to make them a lot of cash.
I’m gonna be that person who can’t tell you what it is, but I’ve heard Baz is announcing on Thursday so you should know soon enough. (Will say they’ve gone for a new-er musical than what they have done previously)
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Post by Oleanna on May 1, 2019 23:26:45 GMT
Next year looks set to make them a lot of cash. I’m gonna be that person who can’t tell you what it is, but I’ve heard Baz is announcing on Thursday so you should know soon enough. (Will say they’ve gone for a new-er musical than what they have done previously) Something from this decade? Or the 00’s? |
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Post by Phantom of London on May 1, 2019 23:39:06 GMT
Don’t really want to gloat, especially as the ENO have had su a torrid time and they need a bit of love, however I feel they will do a musical and the stars will align and that will blow everyone’s socks off.
I would never discourage an organisation to stop their output on quality alone, instead must try harder next time. Choice is always a great problem to have. I saw Man of La Mancha and was in a top seat for £22 through todaytix, So there are good discounts.
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Post by Being Alive on May 2, 2019 0:38:36 GMT
It’s a 00s musical
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Post by Oleanna on May 2, 2019 1:05:31 GMT
Hmm...
The Lord of the Rings?
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2019 1:11:00 GMT
The Sweeney/Sunset model worked best - glossy prestige Broadway imports with an orchestra and production that could ‘only’ be put on in the London Coliseum. Something like Jake Gyllenhaal reprising Sunday in the Park with George? Sunday in the Park would be lost in such a big place like the Coliseum. In terms of 00s musicals, I'm thinking it's either The Producers or Thoroughly Modern Millie |
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Post by horton on May 2, 2019 5:33:45 GMT
I'm looking forward to The Wild Party starring Daniel Day Lewis and Amanda Holden. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 8:08:19 GMT
My own two pennith (is that how you spell it) is that this whole exercise has been underwhelming and they should probably draw a line underneath it. Charging the earth for "semi staged" is never gonna work IMO.
Also, one of the main selling points, the ENO orchestra, is I feel superfluous. Chess is a pop score, and it just slowed it down. Even Sunset is classic musical theatre and not opera. It sounded better coming from the Adelphi pit than it did at the ENO (I know most people will disagree but I felt it just lacked oomph at The Coliseum).
Sunset really was only a success due to Glennis being a mega star. And for me that also didn't work. As she can't sing. And you can't see her acting from the 100 quid seats in the Upper Circle! Preferred La Evans and the CRH actor-muso version TBO!
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 8:18:02 GMT
I'm looking forward to The Wild Party starring Daniel Day Lewis and Amanda Holden. Brilliant! |
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