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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 22, 2019 10:01:23 GMT
Some of our newer members certainly go for the jugular with the comments these days and I wonder if it's just done for effect. I also worry that cast members of shows could quite possibly be reading the comments about them which can be hurtful. Is the board slowly turning into a load of "vicious queens" out to shock? I hope not. I agree with most of what you say, some of these comments are ridiculous, and it is a trend - although there have always been one or two members who tend to say harsher things than others. It's not the job of enthusiasts commenting on an internet discussion board to worry too much about the feelings of professionals putting their work out for display and comment, but it's certainly a nicer discussion if people say sensible things. I did a bit of video work once for a popular blog which received mixed feedback, but you can bet every one of the negative comments on youtube or wherever shone out like beacons and stung really hard. After an hour or so I stopped looking at them, and spent the rest of the day thoroughly depressed. Never again. Some of the stuff that people write on this forum would have been way worse to read. So I sincerely hope that cast and creatives are not flicking through here or searching twitter for their name. For their own mental wellbeing. The main thing we were taught at drama school is NOT to take anything personally. Theatre is a skill with talent that should match. Saying lsomeone can’t sing something” might be factually true; if you have a pop singer trying to sing opera or someone who is meant to be a heartthrob in a role and who isn’t really that attractive, same for being too fat, too thin - it is nothing about the actors themselves but the CASTING. I do wish people would learn this. It’s nothing about the actors but everything to do with the perfect suitability for the role. Quite often the creative team get it wrong, and we as the paying public (debatably experts in this field) have a right to evaluate! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 10:35:07 GMT
Some of our newer members certainly go for the jugular with the comments these days and I wonder if it's just done for effect. I also worry that cast members of shows could quite possibly be reading the comments about them which can be hurtful. Is the board slowly turning into a load of "vicious queens" out to shock? I hope not. I agree with most of what you say, some of these comments are ridiculous, and it is a trend - although there have always been one or two members who tend to say harsher things than others. It's not the job of enthusiasts commenting on an internet discussion board to worry too much about the feelings of professionals putting their work out for display and comment, but it's certainly a nicer discussion if people say sensible things. Snip There is a distinct lack of filter with some people. Mostly, it’s through a mismatch between how they believe they are perceived and the actuality; like Anne Widdecombe now she’s back being a bigoted politician rather than a crap dancer. On the internet, the supposed anonymity makes it more prevalent, I think, as that humanity filter seems even less necessary. The sort of aggression they deal in would have them decked in real life and they know it. On one of the American sites there was an issue recently where posters had crossed the line even more than they usually do, resulting in bans, greater moderation and so on (and rightly so, given what I saw). Cue lots of flouncing and angry screeds about ‘free’ speech. I’d like to say ‘only in America’ but it gets close here sometimes. EDIT: I hope I am wrong but I also get the impression at times, given the nature of their comments, that some posts are by a fellow professional taking out their personal grievances under the cloak of anonymity. Not a good look. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 10:47:13 GMT
I agree with most of what you say, some of these comments are ridiculous, and it is a trend - although there have always been one or two members who tend to say harsher things than others. It's not the job of enthusiasts commenting on an internet discussion board to worry too much about the feelings of professionals putting their work out for display and comment, but it's certainly a nicer discussion if people say sensible things. I did a bit of video work once for a popular blog which received mixed feedback, but you can bet every one of the negative comments on youtube or wherever shone out like beacons and stung really hard. After an hour or so I stopped looking at them, and spent the rest of the day thoroughly depressed. Never again. Some of the stuff that people write on this forum would have been way worse to read. So I sincerely hope that cast and creatives are not flicking through here or searching twitter for their name. For their own mental wellbeing. The main thing we were taught at drama school is NOT to take anything personally. Theatre is a skill with talent that should match. Saying lsomeone can’t sing something” might be factually true; if you have a pop singer trying to sing opera or someone who is meant to be a heartthrob in a role and who isn’t really that attractive, same for being too fat, too thin - it is nothing about the actors themselves but the CASTING. I do wish people would learn this. It’s nothing about the actors but everything to do with the perfect suitability for the role. Quite often the creative team get it wrong, and we as the paying public (debatably experts in this field) have a right to evaluate! Being told to expect something does not make it morally right to do it to others. As posters should know, comments on appearance are unacceptable and should be dealt with by moderators. Rule number five - “Be respectful of theatre performers and creatives. Criticism of their work is allowed but hurtful comments on personal appearance, family or other matters deemed "private" is not.” |
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Post by impossibleprincess73 on Jul 22, 2019 13:40:11 GMT
I've got a ticket for this Thurs evening. I wish I didn't now. I'm thinking the same thing tbh. I only come to London once a year and have limited time to see shows so have to choose wisely. I'm wondering now whether to ditch my ticket for this and go see something else instead. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 22, 2019 17:10:33 GMT
I've got a ticket for this Thurs evening. I wish I didn't now. I'm thinking the same thing tbh. I only come to London once a year and have limited time to see shows so have to choose wisely. I'm wondering now whether to ditch my ticket for this and go see something else instead. Plus the fact that itll be 37 degrees on Thursday also bothers me. This production has been pretty mauled by previewers and I bought on a whim. I be forty quid down but 3 hours richer and 20 degrees cooler! |
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Post by sf on Jul 22, 2019 17:23:58 GMT
This production has been pretty mauled by reviewers No it hasn't. Press night is tomorrow. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 22, 2019 17:38:50 GMT
This production has been pretty mauled by reviewers No it hasn't. Press night is tomorrow. Apologies - autocorrect. I wrote "previewers". Now edited. |
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Post by sf on Jul 22, 2019 18:06:21 GMT
No it hasn't. Press night is tomorrow. Apologies - autocorrect. I wrote "previewers". Now edited.
And it also hasn't been unanimously mauled by people who've seen it in previews. At the performance I saw on Saturday there were people who clearly didn't like it, and the gentleman sitting to my right left at the interval. And there were people who gave it a standing ovation at the curtain call. I was one of them, and I don't do that for everything.
It's the musical theatre equivalent of an art-house film (ironically, since it's based on a very, very mainstream novel). Not everybody is going to love it, and that's OK. It's a different beast from something like Waitress, which is why it's at the Menier rather than the Adelphi, and which is partly why it wasn't a hit on Broadway. I liked it - as I said, with a couple of reservations - but I knew what I was buying when I booked the ticket. Based on what I saw on Saturday, I think it's worth seeing.
In terms of heat, the Menier's air conditioning was certainly working on Saturday. It wasn't hot in there.
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Post by latefortheoverture on Jul 22, 2019 18:09:38 GMT
Didn't find it hot at all on Thursday; if anything was nice and cool!
I really do think with a stronger male lead, and a couple changes to the set, this show could do really well. The supporting cast are very good; especially (I'll say it again) Shanay Holmes!!!!!! I would not be surprised if the reviews pick up on EBD and the lack of chemistry between the lovers sadly.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 22, 2019 19:12:47 GMT
Out of curiosity I watched a couple of YouTube vids of Edward Baker Duly including the (world famous © TallPaul) Crucible Kiss Me Kate and would suggest that he certainly can sing. Maybe this score is a problem or maybe he’s not feeling it for some reason. It’s a shame that his performance isn’t chiming for whatever reason because that’s what the press are going to home in on. |
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Post by FrontroverPaul on Jul 22, 2019 19:37:53 GMT
I'm thinking the same thing tbh. I only come to London once a year and have limited time to see shows so have to choose wisely. I'm wondering now whether to ditch my ticket for this and go see something else instead. Plus the fact that itll be 37 degrees on Thursday also bothers me. This production has been pretty mauled by previewers and I bought on a whim. I be forty quid down but 3 hours richer and 20 degrees cooler! I went knowing nothing about the show or storyline and had a thoroughly enjoyable evening. Now admittedly I like almost everything and would make the world's worst critic but both the leads sounded fine to me (though arguably both outshone by the wonderful Shanay Holmes, surely a future leading lady). If I wasn't elsewhere on Thursday I'd gladly buy your ticket and see it again. Already watched another version online. The theatre certainly wasn't uncomfortably warm . Felt air-condtionedly pleasant where I was sitting |
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 22, 2019 19:56:42 GMT
I'm going on Friday night
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Post by theatre241 on Jul 22, 2019 20:11:19 GMT
Just booked restricted view on row E at the sides. Not prepared to splash out too much!
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Post by musicalmarge on Jul 22, 2019 21:04:26 GMT
I agree with most of what you say, some of these comments are ridiculous, and it is a trend - although there have always been one or two members who tend to say harsher things than others. It's not the job of enthusiasts commenting on an internet discussion board to worry too much about the feelings of professionals putting their work out for display and comment, but it's certainly a nicer discussion if people say sensible things. Snip There is a distinct lack of filter with some people. Mostly, it’s through a mismatch between how they believe they are perceived and the actuality; like Anne Widdecombe now she’s back being a bigoted politician rather than a crap dancer. On the internet, the supposed anonymity makes it more prevalent, I think, as that humanity filter seems even less necessary. The sort of aggression they deal in would have them decked in real life and they know it. On one of the American sites there was an issue recently where posters had crossed the line even more than they usually do, resulting in bans, greater moderation and so on (and rightly so, given what I saw). Cue lots of flouncing and angry screeds about ‘free’ speech. I’d like to say ‘only in America’ but it gets close here sometimes. EDIT: I hope I am wrong but I also get the impression at times, given the nature of their comments, that some posts are by a fellow professional taking out their personal grievances under the cloak of anonymity. Not a good look. This is ridiculous - there are dozens of shows - Fiddler, 42nd Street, Come From Away, Dreamgirls, Phantom, The Prom, Carrie, Dogfight that are sensational theatre experiences. There are dozens that are good and average and then there are dozens that are boring, badly written, too long and have the wrong casting. Whether we are in current shows, were in shows, agents, actual reviewers, journalists, those do amateur theatre, backstage or work front of house or simply the public who ENJOY musical theatre - we have a respectful right to share our opinions. That’s what this board is for. I think we can all name 10/20 theatrical experiences that changed our lives and were amazing. If this wasn’t one of them - them I’m sorry you’re disappointed! But we have a right to free speech (as long as it’s not offensive or nasty) - did I like this show? No. Have I loved others at the Mernier. Yes. Many. Peace x |
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Post by apubleed on Jul 22, 2019 21:14:34 GMT
I agree with most of what you say, some of these comments are ridiculous, and it is a trend - although there have always been one or two members who tend to say harsher things than others. It's not the job of enthusiasts commenting on an internet discussion board to worry too much about the feelings of professionals putting their work out for display and comment, but it's certainly a nicer discussion if people say sensible things. Snip There is a distinct lack of filter with some people. Mostly, it’s through a mismatch between how they believe they are perceived and the actuality; like Anne Widdecombe now she’s back being a bigoted politician rather than a crap dancer. On the internet, the supposed anonymity makes it more prevalent, I think, as that humanity filter seems even less necessary. The sort of aggression they deal in would have them decked in real life and they know it. On one of the American sites there was an issue recently where posters had crossed the line even more than they usually do, resulting in bans, greater moderation and so on (and rightly so, given what I saw). Cue lots of flouncing and angry screeds about ‘free’ speech. I’d like to say ‘only in America’ but it gets close here sometimes. EDIT: I hope I am wrong but I also get the impression at times, given the nature of their comments, that some posts are by a fellow professional taking out their personal grievances under the cloak of anonymity. Not a good look. The incident you are referring to was very specifically calling out the mental health of one particular performer and their attendance record associated with it, this performer personally offended by it and launched a twitter campaign against it. It's a different situation than what I perceive in this thread, which is people just calling out this production and some of the performances as they probably are in reality. I would hope this forum would not go so far that we would not want to do this and be honest about the reality of the situation and reactions as audience member. I'd like to say 'only in Britain', but I don't think we have got that close here. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 22, 2019 22:39:23 GMT
Apologies - autocorrect. I wrote "previewers". Now edited.
And it also hasn't been unanimously mauled by people who've seen it in previews. At the performance I saw on Saturday there were people who clearly didn't like it, and the gentleman sitting to my right left at the interval. And there were people who gave it a standing ovation at the curtain call. I was one of them, and I don't do that for everything.
It's the musical theatre equivalent of an art-house film (ironically, since it's based on a very, very mainstream novel). Not everybody is going to love it, and that's OK. It's a different beast from something like Waitress, which is why it's at the Menier rather than the Adelphi, and which is partly why it wasn't a hit on Broadway. I liked it - as I said, with a couple of reservations - but I knew what I was buying when I booked the ticket. Based on what I saw on Saturday, I think it's worth seeing.
In terms of heat, the Menier's air conditioning was certainly working on Saturday. It wasn't hot in there.
I didn't say unanimously mauled by previewers... but there's very much a marmite thing going on...I might reconsider Thursday based on your feedback, thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 23:38:58 GMT
There is a distinct lack of filter with some people. Mostly, it’s through a mismatch between how they believe they are perceived and the actuality; like Anne Widdecombe now she’s back being a bigoted politician rather than a crap dancer. On the internet, the supposed anonymity makes it more prevalent, I think, as that humanity filter seems even less necessary. The sort of aggression they deal in would have them decked in real life and they know it. On one of the American sites there was an issue recently where posters had crossed the line even more than they usually do, resulting in bans, greater moderation and so on (and rightly so, given what I saw). Cue lots of flouncing and angry screeds about ‘free’ speech. I’d like to say ‘only in America’ but it gets close here sometimes. EDIT: I hope I am wrong but I also get the impression at times, given the nature of their comments, that some posts are by a fellow professional taking out their personal grievances under the cloak of anonymity. Not a good look. This is ridiculous - there are dozens of shows - Fiddler, 42nd Street, Come From Away, Dreamgirls, Phantom, The Prom, Carrie, Dogfight that are sensational theatre experiences. There are dozens that are good and average and then there are dozens that are boring, badly written, too long and have the wrong casting. Whether we are in current shows, were in shows, agents, actual reviewers, journalists, those do amateur theatre, backstage or work front of house or simply the public who ENJOY musical theatre - we have a respectful right to share our opinions. That’s what this board is for. I think we can all name 10/20 theatrical experiences that changed our lives and were amazing. If this wasn’t one of them - them I’m sorry you’re disappointed! But we have a right to free speech (as long as it’s not offensive or nasty) - did I like this show? No. Have I loved others at the Mernier. Yes. Many. Peace x I didn’t understand the hype about 42nd Street and thought it shallow. The same with the Southwark Carrie, whose performances I thought had similarly little relation to:reality. Boring, badly written, badly cast et al. Different preferences really. I rarely go strongly on criticism because I know it’s just that, an opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 9:37:29 GMT
The same with the Southwark Carrie, whose performances I thought had similarly little relation to:reality. Boring, badly written, badly cast et al. Wash your mouth out with soap! Carrie was fantastic and Kim Criswell was amazing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 10:25:34 GMT
The same with the Southwark Carrie, whose performances I thought had similarly little relation to:reality. Boring, badly written, badly cast et al. Wash your mouth out with soap! Carrie was fantastic and Kim Criswell was amazing. The young woman who played Carrie was the best thing about it, I thought the direction was wrongheaded though, camping it up instead of taking it seriously (which, despite the show’s many flaws, the original production mostly did). Anyway, I’m seeing this show at the end of August, so will have to wait and see on this one, |
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Post by apubleed on Jul 23, 2019 10:47:39 GMT
Is there another production of Carrie? Where?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 11:01:47 GMT
Is there another production of Carrie? Where? I wish. no we were talking about the Southwark Playhouse production. |
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Post by Steve on Jul 23, 2019 15:20:49 GMT
For me, I loved Jenna Russell's immense soulfulness, but didn't feel her opposite number was quite able to match her depth of feeling. Some spoilers follow. . . This is like "Brief Encounter" or "Casablanca," without the melodrama or the war to bring the heightened gravitas, so the gravitas must all come from the performances, and while Jenna Russell can shed wistful tears in her sleep, Edward Baker-Duly doesn't. This skewed the piece, so that instead of it feeling like two romantic souls clinging briefly but beautifully to an iceberg, it instead felt, to me, like a kind of gendered porn, where a deep feeling female character suddenly finds herself loved unconditionally by a hunk, with the sex scenes transmuted into songs. From that specific "porn" perspective, it kind of works, as Edward Baker-Duly actually sings tenderly and sweetly, and his hands-on-hips, jutting chin and thrusting grin acting style, coupled with his long hair, reminded me of the retro televisual manliness of eighties-era Marc Singer, in "Beastmaster" or "V," or the nineties swagger of Hercules-era Kevin Sorbo. But as a sensitive drama, the mismatch in acting styles did not really hit the spot for me. Elsewhere in the ensemble, there were some stumbles with finding pitch and holding notes, but this was more than balanced by the magnificent Shanay Holmes' one song, "Another Life," and the generally great Gillian Kirkpatrick's all-round everything. In addition, Maddison Bulleyment gives an exceptionally endearing performance as Russell's yearning and hopeful daughter, Carolyn, such that I always wanted to see more of her and her wide-eyed, charged and interesting side-story. While overall, the singing is not all at the pristine standard of the Broadway production, or indeed, of Shanay Holmes' terrific cameo, Jenna Russell's deep wells of feeling held the piece together for me such that I did not regret going. One thing that did bother me about the piece was how po-faced it is, compared to other love stories that work better, like "Once" or indeed "Love Story" itself, the lack of humour here was a shame, because Russell is just as good at funny as feeling, and it simply isn't asked of her here. 3 and a half stars from me.  |
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Post by andrew on Jul 23, 2019 19:15:27 GMT
For me, I loved Jenna Russell's immense soulfulness, but didn't feel her opposite number was quite able to match her depth of feeling. Jenna Russell's deep wells of feeling held the piece together for me such that I did not regret going. Obviously everyone has different opinions on performers whatever happens, but the main reason I've always liked Jenna Russell is that depth of feeling you describe. I feel like she's brilliant at inhabiting characters and instilling deep levels of emotion in a role which a lot of musical theatre performers do not do. Particularly in a small space like the Menier or in Fun Home at the Young Vic I've found her performances heartbreaking. |
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Post by frontrowcentre on Jul 23, 2019 20:06:08 GMT
Saw the last preview yesterday.
Jenna is a sensational actress in probably one of the finest moments of her career.
Vocally is not broadway standards (apart from Shanay Holmes) having that would have been the icing on the cake as the cast acts flawlessly and even the set is one of the most impressive I ever seen on a fringe venue.
Sir Double Denim sat in the audience taking notes and sipped champagne during act two, so I guess he's happy with what he was seeing..
I can see why some people didn't like it, specially if you are used to listen to the OBC recording but I wouldn't avoid going, specially if you already have a ticket. And you don't have a ticket yet and you don't fancy paying Menier premium prices D21 and D22 at 25 pounds are absolutely bargains, there are listed as restricted but you only miss a couple of moments.
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Post by SomeOtherMe on Jul 23, 2019 20:36:06 GMT
... D21 and D22 at 25 pounds are absolutely bargains, there are listed as restricted but you only miss a couple of moments. Thank you, that’s good to hear as I have D21 booked for later this week. I noticed when they first appeared they were listed as standard price but then quickly turned into restricted view, so I was hoping they might turn out to be a bargain! |
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