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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 23, 2019 22:08:43 GMT
I did wonder if there was an element of ‘vocal rest’ going on to be certain things were going to be fine for the broadcast/recording.
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Post by Jon on Nov 23, 2019 22:21:42 GMT
I did wonder if there was an element of ‘vocal rest’ going on to be certain things were going to be fine for the broadcast/recording. Ball and Boe also have a TV special to record too |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 22:26:11 GMT
It's not deceit and it's certainly not fraud, no one can guarantee whether someone will be ill or well on any given day. That is about as basic common sense as it gets, and anyone who chooses to heighten their expectations to unrealistic levels without taking that into account only has themself to blame. Yes, disappointment is absolutely fine and normal, but any form of rudeness or abusive behaviour is not, and as for refunds, well if you don't read the T&Cs then again that's your own fault. You choose when buying to take the risk that the artist will be unable to appear, and if you really don't want to take that rather small risk (in most cases) then it is your money, you could choose to wait until the day. I'm sure missing a star has happened to all of us, but 3 out sick at once is just bad luck, nothing that could be anticipated by anyone, and the producers and theatre still have to pay everyone involved and run their business, so I really don't see why they should have to refund when a star name is out. I love it when my comments are taken out of context. It wasn't taken out of context at all, you made a statement alleging deceit and fraud, I simply replied to point out that (as a matter of law) it is neither. |
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Post by ceebee on Nov 23, 2019 22:28:46 GMT
Let's face it: folk complaining they've not been able to see Alfie Boe or Matt Lucas are probably not musical theatre fans anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Wow. How distasteful. Yup. Brief, succinct and free of sanctimonious waffle though, huh? |
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Post by shady23 on Nov 23, 2019 22:30:44 GMT
I did wonder if there was an element of ‘vocal rest’ going on to be certain things were going to be fine for the broadcast/recording. Ball and Boe also have a TV special to record too That's not being recorded until December 13th, well after this show ends. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 23:39:55 GMT
I love it when my comments are taken out of context. It wasn't taken out of context at all, you made a statement alleging deceit and fraud, I simply replied to point out that (as a matter of law) it is neither. But it wasn't used against the situation. It was used to explain an example or possibility. |
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Post by 141920grm on Nov 24, 2019 0:08:04 GMT
@reecegeorge This show is accessible- multiple pricing tiers just like any other West End production- grand circle slips are less than £20 a ticket. Standing £15 each. Equally great views as it's not a huge theatre. Cheaper than Phantom, even. You just have to do your research well and be speedy when tickets are released, or be diligent enough to check back every so often for returns, if you were really determined to see the show. I’ve got tickets for Dec 2nd and I’d love to see any if not all of the 4 “names” replaced by their understudies as I know from personal experience that JOJ, Earl and whoever is understudy to Thenardier played by a character from little Britain for laughs are better than Ball, Boe and the one joke wonder from little Britain. However, as it’s the one going out to cinemas I have a feeling they’ll miraculously recover like sarah brightman did in POTO for opening or press night or whatever it was. The people who have seen shows this week probably don’t realise how lucky they are! That is my dream or at least I wish that an alternate version would be filmed with those "big names" replaced by their alternates/understudies! John, Earl, Craig and Stephen I've commented on here before (I prefer all of them to the principal cast), Rosanna Bates too was an excellent Fantine all round, not just Carrie Hope Fletcher singing a sad song- granted, Carrie has a clearer voice and a powerful belt- but just not my cup of tea for the role. I was lucky enough to see this exact combination on Monday, their individual acting and singing talent, plus their combined chemistry, worked the concert staging to their advantage rather than letting it hinder their expression. It's a damn shame the livestream version is going to be what it is then recorded forever- if everything goes to plan and everyone's miraculously recovered from the flu. |
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Post by showtoones on Nov 24, 2019 0:17:11 GMT
It's not deceit and it's certainly not fraud, no one can guarantee whether someone will be ill or well on any given day. That is about as basic common sense as it gets, and anyone who chooses to heighten their expectations to unrealistic levels without taking that into account only has themself to blame. Yes, disappointment is absolutely fine and normal, but any form of rudeness or abusive behaviour is not, and as for refunds, well if you don't read the T&Cs then again that's your own fault. You choose when buying to take the risk that the artist will be unable to appear, and if you really don't want to take that rather small risk (in most cases) then it is your money, you could choose to wait until the day. I'm sure missing a star has happened to all of us, but 3 out sick at once is just bad luck, nothing that could be anticipated by anyone, and the producers and theatre still have to pay everyone involved and run their business, so I really don't see why they should have to refund when a star name is out. You took that line of my comment out of context. Sure. But if they can't guarantee it, they should not advertised the names in the show. It is not at all unrealistic to expect a refund or exchange. The T&C's that they put in place are there just to cover their backs, not to benefit the customer. It shouldnt be the audience taking a risk when buying a ticket, especially not when spending the kind of money tickets cost nowadays. Its the producers responsibility to make sure everyone is onstage when they should be. If someone is ill, the producers should cough up. I dont understand how you could think differently. It seems like you always like to play the victim. I agree I get sad and angry when someone I want to see is off. But I’m commercial theater, people still need to get paid if someone is off. I’d be furious if all of the leads were out, but if they aren’t going to give me my money back, my two choices are make the best and watch the show or eat the ticket. There is also such a thing as past dating, (it happens on Broadway, not sure in the West End) where if you can’t Attend a show you have tickets to, and it wasn’t scanned in, you can call the theater another day in the morning and if they have a free seat for the day/evening perf, they can put you win. That wouldn’t be available here, because the run is sold out, but it is something that does happen. When you say theater needs to put the customer first, That makes no sense. The point of theater is for the audience. But they can’t keep refunding tickets every day if somebody’s out. Potentially they could be giving money back every single day for the whole run. |
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Post by justafan on Nov 24, 2019 0:25:25 GMT
I’ve got tickets for Dec 2nd and I’d love to see any if not all of the 4 “names” replaced by their understudies as I know from personal experience that JOJ, Earl and whoever is understudy to Thenardier played by a character from little Britain for laughs are better than Ball, Boe and the one joke wonder from little Britain. However, as it’s the one going out to cinemas I have a feeling they’ll miraculously recover like sarah brightman did in POTO for opening or press night or whatever it was. The people who have seen shows this week probably don’t realise how lucky they are! Oh I do - I do I do I do 😀😀😀 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 0:35:51 GMT
It wasn't taken out of context at all, you made a statement alleging deceit and fraud, I simply replied to point out that (as a matter of law) it is neither. But it wasn't used against the situation. It was used to explain an example or possibility. I've just re-read your post and you're referring to every situation where a star is out sick, which would include this, and you said that it is deceit and fraud that they don't get to see what was advertised if a star is off. It isn't, so I stand by what I said. How, exactly, did I take it out of context? |
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Post by justafan on Nov 24, 2019 0:37:26 GMT
Here’s a thought - how about offering in ticket price an optional insurance to pay double the price - so if the ‘star’ isn’t there you get your money back - let’s see how devoted these ‘Fans’ really are 😀
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Post by Jon on Nov 24, 2019 0:43:15 GMT
Here’s a thought - how about offering in ticket price an optional insurance to pay double the price - so if the ‘star’ isn’t there you get your money back - let’s see how devoted these ‘Fans’ really are 😀 I don't know if Delfont offer it but other ticketing sites like ATG and LW do have the insurance option although that's more for if you can't make it to due to illness, weather, transport etc |
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Post by ukpuppetboy on Nov 24, 2019 1:41:37 GMT
This topic is pretty contentious and though I would normally agree that you take your chances with the cast when you buy your ticket with most west end shows I do think this concert staging, and other performer driven events like the Glenn Close Sunset Boulevard revival are exceptions to this rule. Especially when so many of the “star” cast aren’t present, for whatever reason as has been the case this last week.
Much was made of the 80’s/90’s mega musical era where Cameron Mackintosh reinvented branding his shows with with identifiable logos in place of ‘names’, but for this production of Les Mis (and recent stunt casting) they have done a complete 180 on that. And it’s all very well saying ‘the show is the star’, but THESE are stripped down versions with minimal staging and scenery where ‘the star is most definitely the star’. You may very well be in for an equally good performance (or better in some cases) but unlike with most shows on in the west end where cast aren’t advertised, and holiday absences/leaving dates aren’t noted in these instances they were all very much part of the marketing. Obviously sickness is regrettable and unavoidable but goodwill should work both ways and it’s a shame if refunds aren’t offered for those who would rather not attend.
However that is where my sympathy ends. People will still complain about being out of pocket for travel/loss of earnings/accommodation, but that definitely IS the chance you take for seeing any live show and if you aren’t prepared for the slim possibility you won’t see the performer of your choice you really shouldn’t have made the decision to book in the first place. Would they prefer the cast member turned up and mimed/croaked their way through the show? Some social media comments seemed to suggest that they should personally be the judge of how fit Alfie Boe was to perform (being a nurse... and/or a vet?!)
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Post by 141920grm on Nov 24, 2019 2:09:11 GMT
^ The performance. The actors' performance should definitely be the star of the show, not the actors themselves, or their celebrity, or (especially) when their celebrity does not warrant a fine performance. Referring to all shows in general that aren't "Celebrity X in Concert".
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 24, 2019 2:14:21 GMT
What Alfie Boe gone sick, don’t believe that.
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Post by ukpuppetboy on Nov 24, 2019 2:25:35 GMT
^ The performance. The actors' performance should definitely be the star of the show, not the actors themselves, or their celebrity, or (especially) when their celebrity does not warrant a fine performance. Referring to all shows in general that aren't "Celebrity X in Concert". I don’t disagree. And I wouldn’t have returned my tickets if I had attended. However when THIS is your marketing and every one of the performers you explicitly mention as a selling point is not able to perform (as had been the case) I can’t criticise those who did want a refund. I am starting to come around to New York’s system of compensating when over the title performers are absent. At least that is unambiguous for audience and producers alike. *I don’t agree with partial refunds though - either see the show or don’t (the production costs the same either way) It doesn’t seem fair on the rest of the audience and would encourage everyone to make a scene at the box office!  |
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Post by hubbard on Nov 24, 2019 3:33:59 GMT
I’ve got tickets for Dec 2nd and I’d love to see any if not all of the 4 “names” replaced by their understudies as I know from personal experience that JOJ, Earl and whoever is understudy to Thenardier played by a character from little Britain for laughs are better than Ball, Boe and the one joke wonder from little Britain. However, as it’s the one going out to cinemas I have a feeling they’ll miraculously recover like sarah brightman did in POTO for opening or press night or whatever it was. The people who have seen shows this week probably don’t realise how lucky they are! Jesus, why on earth are you going if you can't bear any of the leads?! |
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Post by hubbard on Nov 24, 2019 3:36:58 GMT
I did wonder if there was an element of ‘vocal rest’ going on to be certain things were going to be fine for the broadcast/recording. That's pretty insulting, don't you think? Also why would you rest your voice 10 days before filming? |
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Post by tom on Nov 24, 2019 6:10:02 GMT
I’ve got tickets for Dec 2nd and I’d love to see any if not all of the 4 “names” replaced by their understudies as I know from personal experience that JOJ, Earl and whoever is understudy to Thenardier played by a character from little Britain for laughs are better than Ball, Boe and the one joke wonder from little Britain. However, as it’s the one going out to cinemas I have a feeling they’ll miraculously recover like sarah brightman did in POTO for opening or press night or whatever it was. The people who have seen shows this week probably don’t realise how lucky they are! Jesus, why on earth are you going if you can't bear any of the leads?! Did I say I can’t bear the leads? I said their alternates/understudies were better! |
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Post by mrmushnik on Nov 24, 2019 10:57:59 GMT
The absence of the three male star names has thrown up so many interesting arguments. My flat mate and I managed to get a couple of cheap returns for the Friday night performance because around 30 people had demanded their money back prior to the curtain going up.
I completely see both sides of the debate, on one hand it has been advertised with the four star names (although CHF is completely unknown to most in the audience but ticks the younger/social media demographic), and because tickets are so expensive, you expect to get at least one of the three male leads and if that doesn't happen (as was the case on Friday, then refunds should apply.
However, you are not attending Little Britain or a Boe/Ball concert, you are watching Les Miserables with a wonderful supporting cast and a full orchestra and that is what you get.
On Friday, JOJ, Earl Carpenter and Stephen Matthews stood in for Boe, Ball and Lucas, respectively. Before the show started you could feel a slightly subdued atmosphere in the audience but at the final curtain, they were on their feet cheering and applauding as enthusiastically as they had on my previous visit.
To say the three actors 'stood in' is a little disrespectful as all three are principals in their own right with extensive cv's in musical theatre. It certainly wasn't a case of giving the audience graduates. JOJ, as had been said many times before on this board is a phenomenal JVJ, the best IMO. Earl sang Michael into the long grass. Stephen was a brilliant Mr T, funny and terrifying and had the audience in the palm of his hand. Also thought he fitted better with Katy S as we were getting the show and not stupid ad-libs that distract.
I think the additional point to make is that the stars come out and get their applause before they've even opened their mouths. The replacements don't and earn their appreciation from the audience because of their talent. CMack are very lucky to have them.
This is a unique event though, but by putting big stars at overinflated prices as your chief marketing tool (when the concert version would have sold out anyway on a limited run), Cameron has created a monster of his own making.
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Post by shady23 on Nov 24, 2019 11:04:35 GMT
Michael is not doing his BBC Radio 2 show today as still unwell.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 13:22:40 GMT
But it wasn't used against the situation. It was used to explain an example or possibility. I've just re-read your post and you're referring to every situation where a star is out sick, which would include this, and you said that it is deceit and fraud that they don't get to see what was advertised if a star is off. It isn't, so I stand by what I said. How, exactly, did I take it out of context? "Audience members travel miles and miles, sometimes across oceans, to see advertised stars and it doesn't seem fair that they shouldn't get something as it was sold. Its deceit, possibly fraud." I can't believe I'm having to publicly stand up for myself here. This forum feels like fight a night. I never said anything regarding sickness in this paragraph. Let's make this completely general; when someone buys something, if they don't get it as advertised when they bought it, thats deceit and POSSIBLY fraud. I do then go on to mention the slimy clauses that they put in are also there to catch you out in these situations and that's not right either. I didn't realise you were a lawyer, "@posterj" |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 13:29:33 GMT
You know you can just walk away from a post. You dont have to respond to everything someone writes. And that goes for every person who posts on here. Step away and let it go.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 13:50:14 GMT
You know you can just walk away from a post. You dont have to respond to everything someone writes. And that goes for every person who posts on here. Step away and let it go. I just don't like being taken for a fool. I am learning who I should and shouldn't interact with on here. |
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Post by amp09 on Nov 24, 2019 14:13:48 GMT
I've just re-read your post and you're referring to every situation where a star is out sick, which would include this, and you said that it is deceit and fraud that they don't get to see what was advertised if a star is off. It isn't, so I stand by what I said. How, exactly, did I take it out of context? "Audience members travel miles and miles, sometimes across oceans, to see advertised stars and it doesn't seem fair that they shouldn't get something as it was sold. Its deceit, possibly fraud." I can't believe I'm having to publicly stand up for myself here. This forum feels like fight a night. I never said anything regarding sickness in this paragraph. Let's make this completely general; when someone buys something, if they don't get it as advertised when they bought it, thats deceit and POSSIBLY fraud. I do then go on to mention the slimy clauses that they put in are also there to catch you out in these situations and that's not right either. I didn't realise you were a lawyer, "@posterj" It only feels like ‘fight a night’ because you are getting yourself into them. Noticed it across quite a few threads now. Take the previous posters advice, and move on without getting bogged down in petty arguments all the time. |
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