324 posts
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Post by barrowside on Sept 18, 2021 14:29:40 GMT
Meh. There's potential. I'd hoped for better, considering the film is one of my all time favourites. Getting an American import for the female lead leaves a very sour taste. Clive Carter is going to need a Zimmer frame - totally miscast. Zoe Birkett - was ok in Rock of Ages, she can really belt out a good'un if she looks after her voice. Eh, nothing wow but hopefully, it all comes together in the end! What a nasty ageist comment. Clive Carter was great in Come From Away. |
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Post by danb on Sept 18, 2021 15:46:36 GMT
I understand about bringing in "names" for shows to boost sales but Moulin Rouge doesnt need to do that as its sold well. I do not believe that there were no Brits good enough to impress the producers that they needed to look further afield. I think that's a bit of an insult to our great pool of talent. And after Covid there are are huge number of very talented performers looking for work. I think the Sutton Foster example is rather unique as they had to bring in someone at short notice to replace someone who was certainly a "name". Anyway its just my opinion even if you thing im a "bit hypocritical" but thats what makes the world go round! Sorry, that doesn't work. It wasn't particularly short notice on Anything Goes, Sutton last did it 10 years ago so her learning the show again is barely different to Lisii learning Moulin Rouge, and at short notice it would surely have been easier to cast a Brit than to have to deal with all the work permit requirements to bring Sutton over. There are plenty of British "names" who could have done it. Yet not a single person complained about any of that, so it is hypocritical to treat this any differently. You may think that there are Brits good enough to impress the producers of Moulin Rouge, and there may well be (indeed, you are ignoring the fact that most of the cast are British and focusing on two cast members only, which is hardly fair), but I'm just stating a fact that clearly they didn't, otherwise they would have been cast. That's not an insult, it's just a fact. Neither of the two leads are big names so they were clearly cast for their talent, not their profiles. At the end of the day, they are also just talented performers looking for work. Where they find it is irrelevant and I think it's very unfair to complain about them being cast. You're effectively saying no foreign actor should ever set foot on a London stage, which is just preposterous given they have done for decades. And I'm sure everyone on this board has seen many of them without a hint of a complaint. I’m sure the Yanks are saying the same about the Londoner currently wowing Los Angeles as one of their founding fathers. At some point a UK performer will get a similar opportunity over there in contra. |
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Post by alece10 on Sept 18, 2021 15:47:53 GMT
I understand about bringing in "names" for shows to boost sales but Moulin Rouge doesnt need to do that as its sold well. I do not believe that there were no Brits good enough to impress the producers that they needed to look further afield. I think that's a bit of an insult to our great pool of talent. And after Covid there are are huge number of very talented performers looking for work. I think the Sutton Foster example is rather unique as they had to bring in someone at short notice to replace someone who was certainly a "name". Anyway its just my opinion even if you thing im a "bit hypocritical" but thats what makes the world go round! Sorry, that doesn't work. It wasn't particularly short notice on Anything Goes, Sutton last did it 10 years ago so her learning the show again is barely different to Lisii learning Moulin Rouge, and at short notice it would surely have been easier to cast a Brit than to have to deal with all the work permit requirements to bring Sutton over. There are plenty of British "names" who could have done it. Yet not a single person complained about any of that, so it is hypocritical to treat this any differently. You may think that there are Brits good enough to impress the producers of Moulin Rouge, and there may well be (indeed, you are ignoring the fact that most of the cast are British and focusing on two cast members only, which is hardly fair), but I'm just stating a fact that clearly they didn't, otherwise they would have been cast. That's not an insult, it's just a fact. Neither of the two leads are big names so they were clearly cast for their talent, not their profiles. At the end of the day, they are also just talented performers looking for work. Where they find it is irrelevant and I think it's very unfair to complain about them being cast. You're effectively saying no foreign actor should ever set foot on a London stage, which is just preposterous given they have done for decades. And I'm sure everyone on this board has seen many of them without a hint of a complaint. I was going to let it go but in your last paragraph you are practically accusing me of bring xenophobic and I am not accepting that. You have generalised my comment to make it appear that I don't want anyone from another country appearing on the stage in the UK which is both wrong and upsetting. Your comments are deeply hurtful from someone who doesn't know me. You have a great weekend though. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 15:57:08 GMT
Sorry, that doesn't work. It wasn't particularly short notice on Anything Goes, Sutton last did it 10 years ago so her learning the show again is barely different to Lisii learning Moulin Rouge, and at short notice it would surely have been easier to cast a Brit than to have to deal with all the work permit requirements to bring Sutton over. There are plenty of British "names" who could have done it. Yet not a single person complained about any of that, so it is hypocritical to treat this any differently. You may think that there are Brits good enough to impress the producers of Moulin Rouge, and there may well be (indeed, you are ignoring the fact that most of the cast are British and focusing on two cast members only, which is hardly fair), but I'm just stating a fact that clearly they didn't, otherwise they would have been cast. That's not an insult, it's just a fact. Neither of the two leads are big names so they were clearly cast for their talent, not their profiles. At the end of the day, they are also just talented performers looking for work. Where they find it is irrelevant and I think it's very unfair to complain about them being cast. You're effectively saying no foreign actor should ever set foot on a London stage, which is just preposterous given they have done for decades. And I'm sure everyone on this board has seen many of them without a hint of a complaint. I was going to let it go but in your last paragraph you are practically accusing me of bring xenophobic and I am not accepting that. You have generalised my comment to make it appear that I don't want anyone from another country appearing on the stage in the UK which is both wrong and upsetting. Your comments are deeply hurtful from someone who doesn't know me. You have a great weekend though. I'm sorry you took it that way, I certainly did not call you xenophobic, you brought that up. I never accused you of hating people from other countries, you were the one who complained about non-Brits being cast instead of Brits and I was responding to that. Specifically on casting, nothing more. I merely pointed out that one cannot pick and choose by criticising one show for casting internationally yet going to see other shows that have international casts, as I'm sure everyone on this board does. It doesn't work like that - one either accepts that casting is entitled to go beyond British talent or doesn't. It wasn't directed solely at you, it was a general point that making it selectively about one show doesn't work. It isn't one rule for one show and one for another. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 16:08:00 GMT
The ageism here is depressing.
Clive Carter is a brilliant performer and I for one am exciting else he’s playing this role. It’s hardly like the character is doing backflips anyway.
Also I don’t care about what country performers come from- thank God that we have Sutton here. I more object to La Fontaine being cast at all based on her completely bland performance in Dreamgirls. But then maybe without Amber upstaging her- she may get to shine more.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 18, 2021 16:15:10 GMT
Does anyone remember those Equity Talent Exchanges we used to do? We got some really bad deals with those in the past. Send them John Owen-Jones, we get... Drew Sarich(!). Send them Ramin Karimloo, we get... Andrew Durand(?!).
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5,817 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 16:17:21 GMT
Does anyone remember those Equity Talent Exchanges we used to do? We got some really bad deals with those in the past. Send them John Owen-Jones, we get... Drew Sarich(!). Send them Ramin Karimloo, we get... Andrew Durand(?!). I do. I don’t think it’s as strict anymore, what with the global tv explosion etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 16:18:45 GMT
The American cast members will be here as part of the Equity Exchange. A scheme where (basically) if your not famous but have professional experience and credits, you can work here and we can work there. They cant just bring anyone over at anytime.
However, it would have been nice to see a British cast open the show. Originating a role like this, is the type of part that could create a breakout star. Someone's chance to step out from the ensemble and lead a show. Unfortunately by the tine the cast change cones around, the shows buzz had died down and it wont get the same press. Yes it could ve a break fir Liisi, but she doesnt live here, so its not quite the same. Bring the americans over at the cast change.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 16:19:53 GMT
The American cast members will be here as part of the Equity Exchange. A scheme where (basically) if your not famous but have professional experience and credits, you can work here and we can work there. They cant just bring anyone over at anytime. However, it would have been nice to see a British cast open the show. Originating a role like this, is the type of part that could create a breakout star. Someone's chance to step out from the ensemble and lead a show. Unfortunately by the tine the cast change cones around, the shows buzz had died down and it wont get the same press. Yes it could ve a break fir Liisi, but she doesnt live here, so its not quite the same. Would rather Zöé Birkett was given the role. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 16:41:28 GMT
Sutton Foster is a Tony Award winner, recreating a role she won for. Cynthia Erivo was the reason Color Purple did so well and went with the production to NY. i agree with alece10 that it is kind of insulting to our talent here. Liisi hasnt originated the role, wasnt even in the original production. And going by how bland she was in Dreamgirls, is she really better than everyone single performer here and NY? I guess time will tell. At least Zoe Birkett has some name recognition in the UK. |
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Post by carmella1 on Sept 18, 2021 16:49:05 GMT
That high money for that cast. Aaron Tveit well known on Broadway and an unknown in the WE. Tickets should be lower. They will be selling it on the movie. But he does not look like a Christian to me. So if the tickets are cheaper- you are happy for a much less extravagant production I assume? Maybe cut some ensemble , and some of the scenery? Aaron Tveit is not Hugh Jackman. Only theatre fans know who he is! No need to yell. Its the way I feel. Its a blinking jutebox musical. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 16:54:38 GMT
And going by how bland she was in Dreamgirls, is she really better than everyone single performer here and NY? Clearly she was to the producers, otherwise someone else would have been cast...! It's not as if she's a name who got asked, or bought her way in. She had to audition like everyone else, and clearly no-one else impressed more. That is on them, not her. I didn't even think she was particularly exceptional in Dreamgirls, but the amount of backlash on here already is just depressing. If a Brit had auditioned better they would no doubt have got the job, that is the point of auditions, so saying it is taking away from British talent is just wrong. |
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Post by alece10 on Sept 18, 2021 17:05:14 GMT
That high money for that cast. Aaron Tveit well known on Broadway and an unknown in the WE. Tickets should be lower. They will be selling it on the movie. But he does not look like a Christian to me. Aaron Tveit has appeared here. He was in Assassins at the Menier a few years ago but he isn't that well known here outside of the MT circle. Funnily enough we used to get mega fans coming to see him. I remember one night there were 2 young girls from Japan who came over just to see him. Aaron told me that they travel to all his shows and concerts. Apparently they even went to a concert at the Hollywood Bowl and he was only performing 1 song. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 17:10:27 GMT
So if the tickets are cheaper- you are happy for a much less extravagant production I assume? Maybe cut some ensemble , and some of the scenery? Aaron Tveit is not Hugh Jackman. Only theatre fans know who he is! No need to yell. Its the way I feel. Its a blinking jutebox musical. That wasn’t yelling. You’re awfully interested in something that’s only a blinking “jutebox” musical. |
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Post by carmella1 on Sept 18, 2021 17:13:28 GMT
That high money for that cast. Aaron Tveit well known on Broadway and an unknown in the WE. Tickets should be lower. They will be selling it on the movie. But he does not look like a Christian to me. Aaron Tveit has appeared here. He was in Assassins at the Menier a few years ago but he isn't that well known here outside of the MT circle. Funnily enough we used to get mega fans coming to see him. I remember one night there were 2 young girls from Japan who came over just to see him. Aaron told me that they travel to all his shows and concerts. Apparently they even went to a concert at the Hollywood Bowl and he was only performing 1 song. Its still a bit hard to believe no established performer was as good as him. I forgot his name. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 17:13:58 GMT
I’m very underwhelmed by the casting , but I’m going to reserve judgment and trust they have cast the best people they saw. God knows every performer in town went up for this show so they had the pick of the crop.
Saying ‘foreign’ performers can’t come here is like saying musicals that originated outside the UK should stay away too , because it’s not fair to homegrown shows. Absolute nonsense.
I don’t see anyone complaining when Amy Adam’s, Glenn Close or Jake Gyllenhal (sp?) are cast in shows here,
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Post by inthenose on Sept 18, 2021 17:16:13 GMT
And going by how bland she was in Dreamgirls, is she really better than everyone single performer here and NY? Clearly she was to the producers, otherwise someone else would have been cast...! It's not as if she's a name who got asked, or bought her way in. She had to audition like everyone else, and clearly no-one else impressed more. That is on them, not her. I didn't even think she was particularly exceptional in Dreamgirls, but the amount of backlash on here already is just depressing. If a Brit had auditioned better they would no doubt have got the job, that is the point of auditions, so saying it is taking away from British talent is just wrong. Not necessarily. I don't know what has happened in the process in this particular case, but I do know from experience that the idea of the best auditionee getting the part is wishful thinking. In an ideal world, the casting director and panel will see people from all races and backgrounds then pick the best audition regardless of anything other than their performance. In reality things are enormously different. Specifically; - Producer mandates. Producers can have an enormous say behind the scenes on casting policy. It all comes down to status, ego and strength of personality. Some are happy to trust their creatives (David Ian) others are very hands on (Cameron). If hypothetically the US producers of this show insisted on US actors, because they trust them more than British ones, there could be a reason. - Nepotism, jobs for friends, Director's favourites. Casting couch. "There is always a part in the show for the producer's girlfriend/boyfriend". This happens a hell of a lot more even in 2021 than people are willing to admit. In the Dear Evan Hansen movie - it's no coincidence that Ben Platt's Uncle is Marc Platt, the producer of the movie. - Shared agents. The most common. Theatrical agents will recommend talent and offer their services, potentially with reduced finders fees as an incentive to take them alongside the talent they specifically wanted. This is extremely common. Ever noticed how certain performers seem to pop up in shows together multiple times? Check their representation. Chances are they share an agency and are reliable. Might not be the best auditionee (or have even auditioned!) but sure saves money and gives stability. In short, the best people aren't always cast and often for reasons which we might consider less than artistically driven. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 17:21:37 GMT
And going by how bland she was in Dreamgirls, is she really better than everyone single performer here and NY? Clearly she was to the producers, otherwise someone else would have been cast...! It's not as if she's a name who got asked, or bought her way in. She had to audition like everyone else, and clearly no-one else impressed more. That is on them, not her. I didn't even think she was particularly exceptional in Dreamgirls, but the amount of backlash on here already is just depressing. If a Brit had auditioned better they would no doubt have got the job, that is the point of auditions, so saying it is taking away from British talent is just wrong. Maybe she did buy her way in!! Did you actually see her auditions? I'm kidding. A backlash? Hardly. Maybe there was something within the equity exchange that said it had to be an American, we'll probably never know, but I'm guessing any of the Queens from Six could be a great Satine. I'm trying to think, When did a British actress, who was a complete unknown, open a new production in NYC. Sam Barks was known fron the film of Les Mis, others went with a production. Sally Ann Triplett and Rachel Tucker in The Last Ship had both been on Broadway before. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 17:25:22 GMT
Still, at least its not Ray Quinn and Kym Marsh.
Though once the inevitable UK comes around, there's still a chance for it to happen.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 18, 2021 17:34:47 GMT
Still, at least its not Ray Quinn and Kym Marsh. Though once the inevitable UK comes around, there's still a chance for it to happen. I think this show is classier than that. Not sure that will ever happen. Cut to the Curve Leicester revival in 10 years time. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 18:52:01 GMT
I'm trying to think, When did a British actress, who was a complete unknown, open a new production in NYC. Sam Barks was known fron the film of Les Mis, others went with a production. Sally Ann Triplett and Rachel Tucker in The Last Ship had both been on Broadway before. Liisi Lafontaine was in the original London cast of Dreamgirls, so has been in the West End before, and therefore no different from Sally Ann Triplett or Rachel Tucker on Broadway. Linzi Hateley, a 17-year-old complete unknown, created the title role in Carrie on Broadway in 1988. Alongside Sally Ann Triplett in her Broadway debut. I know that was an RSC transfer of a Stratford tryout, but you could argue there was no need for the British cast members to go over and open the show in New York. Every situation is different, but I don't think Moulin Rouge have done anything unusual. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2021 21:06:13 GMT
Fun fact: Carrie was the first ever equity exchange. The cast was made up specifically of 50% Americans and 50% Brits, because they knew before the production started that it was going to NYC after Stratford.
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Post by barrowside on Sept 18, 2021 22:27:47 GMT
Frances Ruffelle would have been unknown in the US when she opened in Les Mis in 1987.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 18, 2021 22:28:51 GMT
Fun fact: Carrie was the first ever equity exchange. The cast was made up specifically of 50% Americans and 50% Brits, because they knew before the production started that it was going to NYC after Stratford. Never knew that - interesting. |
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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 19, 2021 0:19:34 GMT
I know who Aaron Tveit is from Grease! Live.
I have no real issue with him playing the role, as long as he actually sounds English! Mind you, I think the Matildas all sound far too 'London' and I don't like how Zizi Strallen speaks in Mary Poppins, and they're all English so I might be over picky about that!
Thank you for the info about when he was singing. I have a soft spot for university a cappella groups — St Andrews used to host a big competition every year, and their all-male group, The Other Guys, were extremely good.
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