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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 10:25:19 GMT
I also think that a scene like Thuy's death/this is the hour needs to stay away from a realistic setting as far as possible and instead embrace the fantasy element. Especially after she shot him, they should put Kim in a big black space, representing the nightmare in her head, the confusion and the guilt. Smoke, a choir of ghosts, not just a trash can and a clothes line and a street with a few passers-by bleating some live recorded lines. Same goes for the dreamland scenes, last night of the world, so many sung thoughts do not represent the reality of the moment but are journeys in their minds.
I think in the film King Kong 2 has some scenes in Bangkok and the camera work is outstanding. You see the camera flying around, zooming in, fantastic editing, at one point you see the sun going under and 2 helicopters in slo-mo while their blades turn completely in sync, with certain parts sped up, which looked stunning and it reminded me about how great a MS movie could be. Almost like a haunting videoclip with the most beautiful music and cinematography you have ever seen, like a piece of art.
The other day I found this clip, and it really sounds like the end titles/end credits orchestral suite of a Miss Saigon movie to me.
So many great opportunities!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 11:23:17 GMT
i think Danny Boyle was rumored to direct.......
......but this is NEVER gonna end up being made into a film. its too problematic, too many lyrics and elements would need changing. And with the whole thing going on in the US in last couple of weeks there is no way anyone would touch this.
bet Cats didnt help either...
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 12:33:46 GMT
It's not problematic at all. When a story portrays a certain element of history, without good or bad people, but instead shows the victims of war and an Asian girl as a strong female heroine then that's a beautiful thing. Lyrics portrayed by American characters that you don't necessarily agree with is a beautiful lesson in life and history and it's an hommage to the survivors and people who died in the horrors of the Vietnam war and how strong the human spirit is.
Every complaint I have heard was ungrounded. Kim is the heroine but some people refuse to see her as more than a prostitute. That is their fault. There were thousands of real women like this during the war, it's an hommage to them. Was everyone in real life so strong and noble as Kim? Probably not. Was everyone a prostitute? No. But that is not the point. The story is about these people and these people existed mixed with an element of a fantasy love story to be able to show that many people in the war had different stories. You can never portray all stories in 1 movie and I am personally very interested in these bar girl refugee stories. I also love that the show is critical towards Americans, as it it clear that they experienced things by their own narrative which is how it really was and that kind of storytelling really makes people learn.
Also, it's great to have a movie with an extremely mixed cast like this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 13:13:46 GMT
It's not problematic at all. When a story portrays a certain element of history, without good or bad people, but instead shows the victims of war and an Asian girl as a strong female heroine then that's a beautiful thing. Lyrics portrayed by American characters that you don't necessarily agree with is a beautiful lesson in life and history and it's an hommage to the survivors and people who died in the horrors of the Vietnam war and how strong the human spirit is. Every complaint I have heard was ungrounded. Kim is the heroine but some people refuse to see her as more than a prostitute. That is their fault. There were thousands of real women like this during the war, it's an hommage to them. Was everyone in real life so strong and noble as Kim? Probably not. Was everyone a prostitute? No. But that is not the point. The story is about these people and these people existed mixed with an element of a fantasy love story to be able to show that many people in the war had different stories. You can never portray all stories in 1 movie and I am personally very interested in these bar girl refugee stories. I also love that the show is critical towards Americans, as it it clear that they experienced things by their own narrative which is how it really was and that kind of storytelling really makes people learn. Also, it's great to have a movie with an extremely mixed cast like this. i think a lot of Asian people find it problematic |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 13:35:55 GMT
I think that's actually only a small group of Asian people who are prejudiced and who don't understand it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 13:43:41 GMT
I think that's actually only a small group of Asian people who are prejudiced and who don't understand it. laugh. out. loud. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 14:51:51 GMT
Can you please stop this passive aggressive behaviour and explain what your problem with the show is? Because then we can get to the point.
Because with accusations like this you need good arguments, which I haven't heard yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2020 15:33:49 GMT
Can you please stop this passive aggressive behaviour and explain what your problem with the show is? Because then we can get to the point. Because with accusations like this you need good arguments, which I haven't heard yet. No problem with the show, was my fav as a kid. Saw it 3 times and own 3 cast recordings. I like it. Just saying don’t think it will make it to the picturhouse as it’s a bit problematic and many Asian people think so too. Not entirely sure what I can accused of making accusations about? I mean it’s not like I called u a racist or anything |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 16:51:43 GMT
You call the show problematic, so I was wondering what you think the problems are.
All Asian people I know think it's wonderful, understand it and see it in perspective and think it's an important and beautiful story to tell.
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Post by sf on Jun 6, 2020 22:43:31 GMT
You call the show problematic, so I was wondering what you think the problems are. All Asian people I know think it's wonderful, understand it and see it in perspective and think it's an important and beautiful story to tell. This article does a good job of setting out some of the problems some people have with the writing:
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:19:24 GMT
Thanks, I know that article. What she writes is entirely not about this show.
It's about things from the past she doesn't accept, other stories she is more interested in and lies about the characters and writing.
Good for her that her own story doesn't contain women like that or white men at all. Other stories do.
She complains about a line of the character Chris, who has an american point of view and mistakes a character arc with the message of the show.
Remarks like these: "We hate ourselves because we are not white (the Engineer), and we will even shoot ourselves in the name of America (Kim). Why would you want to be with a Vietnamese man when you can be with a white man? Why would you want to be Vietnamese when you can be American instead?" show she is prejudiced and doesn't look at the show from a neutral point of view at all. The show's power is that it's about the human spirit and above these racist limitations. If she views Kim's suicide as a race thing or the fact that she chooses Chris over Thuy as a race thing, she should really work on herself before she visits any show at all.
"Asian women are resilient, resourceful, strong, not victims. Instead, in Miss Saigon, Kim, a woman with no last name, sings about her longing for a man to save her"
This remark actually makes me positive that she has not seen the show, she just pretends she does so people might read her article.
"Don’t depend on whiteness; it will kill you."
Wow, this lady has issues. I think she needs help.
This show is all about being above that.
"idolize whiteness to the point of suicide?"
Sure, that's Kim's motivation. Really, why is this article still online?
Such racists are rare.
Aside from the complete disrespect for people in history and the Vietnam war that does not fit her preference, she also rants that she just hates this show because of "yellowface" casting and that they "rather cast white actors to play us", which hasn't happened for 20 years and has nothing to do with the production she claims to have seen.
What a bizarre article.
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Post by sf on Jun 6, 2020 23:29:33 GMT
No, it isn't bizarre. It's the product of someone whose cultural background is not the same as yours, and whose interaction with this material, therefore, was also not the same as yours. Or to put it another way: the author is of a culture the show attempts to represent, and your vehement dismissal of her opinion because it doesn't mesh with your own response to the piece reveals a great deal. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:40:20 GMT
This is not about interaction with this material.
The things she claims are utterly untrue, racist and fables.
Kim does not shoot herself over race. This show is not about "whiteness kills you". Kim does not choose Chris over Thuy because of race. There is no yellowface casting anymore.
Over and out.
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Post by sf on Jun 6, 2020 23:46:26 GMT
This is not about interaction with this material. Yes it is. It is VERY clearly about how she interacts with the material as a person of the same cultural background as several characters in the show. If you don't understand that very, VERY basic point, you aren't going to understand the rest of the article. This is not difficult. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:59:10 GMT
I think you make a mistake there, the things she mentions (that I mention in above post) clearly tell that she does not interact with the material, as the remarks are actually not about the material. It's prejudice and things that are not a matter of opinion but utterly untrue statements.
If you defend her remarks: "Kim shoots herself over race. This show is about "whiteness kills you". Kim chooses Chris over Thuy because of race. The casting is yellowface." as an opinion, then you have a blind spot somewhere and then there is no need to discuss this any further with you. Because this lady is NOT interacting with the material.
She is preventing interaction because of prejudice and that is not fair.
Edit: I think people like this who can't look past race, who can't see human, are a danger to society and themselves. The message of Miss Saigon is human spirit above race. I wish this lady good luck in life.
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Post by sf on Jun 7, 2020 0:02:06 GMT
Nope. It's the product of her lived experience. I'd use shorter words, but there aren't any. Once again, your racism is showing. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 0:05:02 GMT
Wrong, supporting her is supporting racism.
For me it's always human and human only.
That's why I love Miss Saigon so much, it rises above it all.
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 7, 2020 0:29:07 GMT
sf lord knows you tried. How Dave25 is still allowed an account on this forum I don't know.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jun 7, 2020 2:24:56 GMT
Are we talking about the same Miss Saigon that is so respectful of the culture it represents that it ran for over a decade with lyrics in made-up Vietnamese because the authors couldn't be bothered to use the real language of the country? Or a real language at all?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 5:45:46 GMT
It’s also the same Miss Saigon where the creatives didn’t employ Vietnamese leads because they figured Viennese can’t do musical theatre
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Post by Oleanna on Jun 7, 2020 7:35:15 GMT
Viennese can’t do musical theatre To be fair, they normally stick to Operetta. And waltzing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:47:33 GMT
Viennese can’t do musical theatre To be fair, they normally stick to Operetta. And waltzing.  |
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Post by TheOneOnTheLeft on Jun 7, 2020 8:43:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:49:41 GMT
Vienna? Means nothing to me...... |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 9:33:35 GMT
sf lord knows you tried. How Dave25 is still allowed an account on this forum I don't know. Because I am always kind and stable and reasonable and explain my thoughts. That's actually how a forum works. Are you able to understand this? Threatening with deleting accounts when an opinion differs from yours is not how a forum works. Get out of your judgemental victim role and start discussing your point too. |
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