1,996 posts
|
Post by distantcousin on Feb 4, 2020 22:13:38 GMT
Viva Forever would surely be classed as a flop from the last 10 years, despite the media splash and creatives involved?
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:22:25 GMT
Viva Forever would surely be classed as a flop from the last 10 years, despite the media splash and creatives involved? Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 23:28:29 GMT
Carrie. Probably the most infamous flop of all time.
Unfortunately, Terry Hands, who helped guide it to that title, died today. What he did to Carrie was nothing short of spectacular and downright bizarre.
When told the musical should be like Grease, he heard it as Greece, took it like a Greek tragedy, and why the original production had those horrific toga like costumes. You can't make it up.
If you haven't read it, Not Since Carrie, the book regarding the history of flop show is an absolute must read.
|
|
5,811 posts
|
Post by mrbarnaby on Feb 4, 2020 23:49:30 GMT
I miss the glory days of the Shaftesbury flops..
Daddy Cool - THE PARROT
The Far Pavilions- beautiful set
Napoleon- stunning design
Lautrec- some beautiful stage images
Lord of the rings was sooooo boring. All that effort and money for no pay off.
|
|
5,811 posts
|
Post by mrbarnaby on Feb 4, 2020 23:50:47 GMT
I'm afraid I hated Lend Me a Tenor the musical: it ruined a very funny play. I truly pitied the talented cast. Totally agree. The set was kinda clever but it’s colour (lilac) was hideous to look at. The whole show was a laugh free zone. |
|
146 posts
|
Post by impossibleprincess73 on Feb 5, 2020 0:12:34 GMT
Viva Forever would surely be classed as a flop from the last 10 years, despite the media splash and creatives involved? Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
Aww I know it was a flop but I actually really enjoyed it. I wouldn't say I was a huge Spice Girls fan or anything, but I did like some of their music and I thought the show was sweet and quite funny. The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter carried the show for me, as most of the cast were relative newbies. The story wasn't great to be fair, but it entertained me enough for me to go back and see it a second time before it closed. |
|
|
|
Post by learfan on Feb 5, 2020 11:31:12 GMT
Carrie. Probably the most infamous flop of all time. Unfortunately, Terry Hands, who helped guide it to that title, died today. What he did to Carrie was nothing short of spectacular and downright bizarre. When told the musical should be like Grease, he heard it as Greece, took it like a Greek tragedy, and why the original production had those horrific toga like costumes. You can't make it up. If you haven't read it, Not Since Carrie, the book regarding the history of flop show is an absolute must read. The book is a required read, its fantastic. Truly amazing how many of the giants have had flops! |
|
1,996 posts
|
Post by distantcousin on Feb 5, 2020 13:39:32 GMT
Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
Aww I know it was a flop but I actually really enjoyed it. I wouldn't say I was a huge Spice Girls fan or anything, but I did like some of their music and I thought the show was sweet and quite funny. The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter carried the show for me, as most of the cast were relative newbies. The story wasn't great to be fair, but it entertained me enough for me to go back and see it a second time before it closed. I never saw it because I don't like jukebox musicals generally (especially when a favourite artists music is shoehorned into a new story).
I had a friend that quite liked it. What was clear was that Jennifer Saunders did not know how to write a musical book. (and that's coming from a massive fan of hers)
|
|
751 posts
|
Post by horton on Feb 5, 2020 15:09:19 GMT
And although mentioned elsewhere, Terry Hands must be the crown-prince of this thread for his contribution to the craziness of Carrie. Actually 'Not Since Carrie' does a very good critique of exactly why the director's concept destroyed the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by chadexx on Feb 5, 2020 15:44:41 GMT
Terry Hands' POPPY was an interesting collector's piece but not a roaring success~~~
|
|
751 posts
|
Post by horton on Feb 5, 2020 17:50:23 GMT
It was an incredible show!
|
|
751 posts
|
Post by horton on Feb 5, 2020 17:50:42 GMT
And I still have the LP!
|
|
|
|
Post by learfan on Feb 5, 2020 18:03:42 GMT
Terry Hands' POPPY was an interesting collector's piece but not a roaring success~~~ Maybe but didn't it win the SWET Award for best Musical? |
|
215 posts
|
Post by Peter on Feb 5, 2020 22:05:53 GMT
I miss the glory days of the Shaftesbury flops.. Daddy Cool - THE PARROT The Far Pavilions- beautiful set Napoleon- stunning design Lautrec- some beautiful stage images Lord of the rings was sooooo boring. All that effort and money for no pay off. Didn’t see Daddy Cool, but I remember the others all had gorgeous scenic designs and all seemed to have had a good deal of money thrown at them (Napoleon in particular, with a relatively large orchestra, elaborate set and staging and some impressive choral pieces). Peggy Sue Got Married was there too but I remember that being quite dull rather than bad, and the score was unmemorable (mostly 50s pastiche with a random Steinman song thrown in)... |
|
|
|
Post by jcs619 on Feb 5, 2020 22:06:57 GMT
Viva Forever would surely be classed as a flop from the last 10 years, despite the media splash and creatives involved? Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter and the vast majority of the young cast were excellent. Most of the songs were very well staged and sung. The book was bloody awful and Jennifer Saunders should never be asked to write another musical ever... |
|
|
|
Post by fluxcapacitor on Feb 8, 2020 8:37:25 GMT
Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter and the vast majority of the young cast were excellent. Most of the songs were very well staged and sung. The book was bloody awful and Jennifer Saunders should never be asked to write another musical ever... I personally enjoyed Viva Forever, but always felt the musical numbers were maybe adapted TOO well. Lyrics were changed, orchestrations and tempos were vastly different to the originals, songs and phrases were blended together. Much more so than Mamma Mia. I distinctly remember “2 Become 1” being an exception as it was sung very closely to the original arrangement (albeit as a duet) and the audience loving it and singing along. I’m not saying crowds should be singing along at a musical, but I think that’s what this crowd wanted and had it been more of a shameless jukebox show it would have gone down better. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 0:28:36 GMT
I'm not sure we have ever mentioned this, but the show 'Someone Like You' - Music by Petula Clark, staring Petula Clark, Dave Willets and Clive Carter
Ran for 1 month in 1990. I remember the marketing for it, but never saw it. Did anyone here see it?
Clive Carter has been in a quite a few bad shows. Him and Graham Bickley owned the 90's flops!
|
|
|
|
Post by craig on Feb 13, 2020 18:13:40 GMT
Viva Forever was absolutely woeful, and I say that as a big fan of Spice Girls and Jennifer Saunders.
I've always had the impression that Saunders is extremely talented but not particularly focused. I think a musical book was just a bit beyond her.
|
|
396 posts
|
Post by djp on Feb 15, 2020 21:41:38 GMT
Easily classed as a flop. Unfortunately i never got to see it.
Those who saw it, why was it so bad??
The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter and the vast majority of the young cast were excellent. Most of the songs were very well staged and sung. The book was bloody awful and Jennifer Saunders should never be asked to write another musical ever... The story was nonsense and went nowhere before fading into oblivion . They invented that, presumably to avoid making it the story of the spice girls , or just a celebration of their music. The Spice Girl's story possibly raised too many issues - like what does Vicky sing and why do some go? And because they were stuck with a poor story they couldn't make it a celebration. The audience looked perplexed at a story that had almost as many plot holes, and nonsenses as Game of thrones season 8, disappointed by songs that were incomplete or made different, and only really came to life for the montage of the original songs at the end.
Could have been much better with either the real story, or a much better story, or actresses , like those reported to be in the workshop who sound elsewhere more like they could play baby or Mel B . But the main failure was trying to make a Not the Spice girls story out of a musical based on the spice girls music and sold to fans as the Spice Girls Musical. The concept fails all logic at that point. It made all the mistakes Mamma Mia avoids.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 23:45:42 GMT
The performances of Sally Ann Triplett and Sally Dexter and the vast majority of the young cast were excellent. Most of the songs were very well staged and sung. The book was bloody awful and Jennifer Saunders should never be asked to write another musical ever... The story was nonsense and went nowhere before fading into oblivion . They invented that, presumably to avoid making it the story of the spice girls , or just a celebration of their music. The Spice Girl's story possibly raised too many issues - like what does Vicky sing and why do some go? And because they were stuck with a poor story they couldn't make it a celebration. The audience looked perplexed at a story that had almost as many plot holes, and nonsenses as Game of thrones season 8, disappointed by songs that were incomplete or made different, and only really came to life for the montage of the original songs at the end.
Could have been much better with either the real story, or a much better story, or actresses , like those reported to be in the workshop who sound elsewhere more like they could play baby or Mel B . But the main failure was trying to make a Not the Spice girls story out of a musical based on the spice girls music and sold to fans as the Spice Girls Musical. The concept fails all logic at that point. It made all the mistakes Mamma Mia avoids.
Well on paper Viva Forever should have worked: Judy Craymer producing (Mamma Mia), Jennifer Saunders (prolific script writer), Spice Girls music (100 million records sold) and a strong and able cast. All of the right elements were there... but sometimes it just doesn’t work. I really don’t think people went expecting the story of the Spice Girls because the girls had done press explaining it wasn’t, the advertising clearly said it was a new musical based on the music of the band and sometimes I think that’s just an easy criticism to throw at the show. Don’t get me wrong, a biop musical would have been great but the band still aren’t ready to tell us the real story, let alone put it on stage: we only recently found out Mel C was almost kicked out (for telling Victoria to FO at the Brits) and that the rumoured Geri and Mel B thing was real. They’ve told so many stories over the years I’m not sure they know what’s true anymore (like the fact Geri co-wrote Goodbye before she left). Anyway, my biggest issue with the musical was the book though. It was absolutely dire and a story about a girl ditching her best friends in her quest for fame is basically the exact opposite of Girl Power. Jennifer tried to give every character their own storyline and for a large chunk it focused on the judges instead of the title character, who basically became a footnote. The TV talent show idea was lazy and I never understood why Viva lived on a houseboat in London. Then there’s the fact the songs lost all spiciness. You had trained theatre performers applying all their training that sucked all of the personality out of them. Half the band were northern and you’ve got performers using the Queen’s English singing songs the audience knew inside out. It just made them sound off. There were moments that really worked though, like 2 Become 1 being a comedy song between two middle aged people contemplating a bunk up, and the Spanglish version of Viva Forever performed acoustically. I saw the musical a few times over the course of the run and saw Jennifer there too on occasion, and to her credit she kept tinkering with the show trying to improve it (songs were cut, moved around, replaced etc more or less right to the end). |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 11:53:58 GMT
I really regret not having seen Lord Of The Rings. I’ve never read the books/seen the films and wasn’t massively moved by the cast recording so decided not to.... As well as my Back To The Future hopes, I also wonder if Prince of Egypt might provide some breathtaking spectacle. I think Lord of the Rings was the last time I thought "wow, I've never seen so much money on a stage"- and yes the fireflies were gorgeous. 42nd was sumptuous, but of course it was very nearly a straight revival from the 1980s- but that staircase was genuinely a coup de theatre. The use of projections can never have the same visceral impact as actual scenic items. Lord of the Rings had the same problem as the His Dark Materials stage version, too much story. Good theatre revolves as much around character as plot and there was little time to go beyond ‘this happens, that happens, this happens.....’. To me, the 42nd Street set was tacky, nothing like the stylishness of the early 30’s, more like a trashy 70’s version of what we imagined the 30’s were like. Reminded me of Saturday night TV variety shows that we used to get! It comes down to a successful balance of plot and character. If a show needs a flashy design to work, then you haven’t got a good show, just a good spectacle. The way that we’ve seen more intimate versions of shows in the last few decades has exposed many as being severely lacking in that regard. Some, surprisingly, improve such as The Color Purple. Did anyone see the fringe revival of Time? I’d love to know how that worked without the technology. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 12:11:31 GMT
LOTR to this day is still one of my all time theatre highlights. It was immersive, spectacular and creative physical theatre. It was too ambitious in terms of story but I was never bored and it was at times breathtaking (literally at one point). The music was lovely and evoked the setting well.
It also showed up the ridiculousness of London theatre prices. I paid the same amount for LOTR as I did for Drowsy Chaperone. LOTR you could see where you're money went in the set, costumes, cast, effects etc. Drowsy was borderline am dram set and costumes, only about 1hr 40mins long and completely forgettable in every way.
|
|
837 posts
|
Post by duncan on Feb 16, 2020 18:21:07 GMT
Where as for me LOTR, I'd forgotten the score by the time I set foot outside the theatre but I think Chaperone is one of the great underrated musicals (certainly in the UK) of the last 30 years.
The great thing about theatre going, everyone has different tastes! I'll never understand the praise for something like Hamilton or Wicked but I'll crack open Chaperone or Flora the Red Menace at the drop of a hat.
|
|
541 posts
|
Post by drowseychap on Feb 16, 2020 18:29:19 GMT
I saw Lotr too and yes the set was quite something but the songs I’d forgotten too by the end and found it boring tbh
Chaperone I loved thought the set was very good definitely not am dram and such a great cast deserved a much longer run love the sound track ... really funny too ... sae a smaller production later upstairs at gatehouse which was really well done on a tiny scale soibhan McCarthy as chaperone was incredible
I think a tour would do pretty well better than these wedding singer etc etc. Tours in my humble opinion
|
|
|
|
Post by westendboy on Feb 18, 2020 14:01:14 GMT
It seems like we may be seeing the next big West End flop right around the corner. 'The Prince of Egypt' has been getting some mixed reactions from audiences who've seen it during previews. Some seem to like it, some seem to hate it. It's official opening night (press night) is on the 25th, so we don't know how the critics will feel about it. Sure these early responses from audiences may not affect the show much (there are already large ques outside the the box office of the Dominion!), but they could be a bad sign of some sorts. And if the critics slam the show, ticket sales may drop. Of course, this might not be the case and it may go on to be a success. We just need to wait until the 25th.
|
|
