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Post by BVM on Dec 28, 2023 13:01:24 GMT
There’s a difference between thinking the show has gone down in quality and being critical of cast members when they are unable to perform. Time and time again on this thread I see people picking on certain performers for being unable to perform and speculating why they are off when it’s literally none of our business. If you don’t think the show is as good as it used to be then that’s fine don’t go, but public speculation around a performer’s absence is unnecessary. It could be any combination of illness, injury or other personal reasons. Fully agree - very much the point I was making! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 28, 2023 13:41:18 GMT
There’s a difference between thinking the show has gone down in quality and being critical of cast members when they are unable to perform. Time and time again on this thread I see people picking on certain performers for being unable to perform and speculating why they are off when it’s literally none of our business. If you don’t think the show is as good as it used to be then that’s fine don’t go, but public speculation around a performer’s absence is unnecessary. It could be any combination of illness, injury or other personal reasons. Discussion of a performers attendance is allowed. Speculation about matters of health or other personal details is not. This is made clear in our rules. If members see something they consider to be a rule break please report it rather than trying to police the thread. Thank you. |
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 29, 2023 18:38:51 GMT
Amy Webb and Christine tucker are on again tonight
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Post by jacob on Dec 29, 2023 20:48:07 GMT
Regardless of “who’s on, who’s off”, I echo other comments when I say that I think the West End show is tired as well. It’s clearly the performances and some of the cast. Some ensemble members stick out like sore thumbs by doing “too much”, and Ryan was really not great when I went last time. @ Michael McCabe … give this show the shake up it deserves ! Revised orchestrations? A new sound design! Updated projections. INVOLVE the fan base more. Make Glinda more bubbly (yes, pun intended) as to contrast with Elphaba. Please give us a Fiyero who can dance and sing. When the actors onstage are having fun too, audiences can tell and it works… but everyone looked so dead behind the eyes last time I went. It’s unique creative choices that make a long running show engaging again, like on Broadway with fresh faces, new vocals and incredible orchestrations.
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Post by SuttonPeron on Dec 30, 2023 1:17:16 GMT
Agreed the show needs refreshing and much more enthusiasm from the ensemble, but please do NOT touch William David Brohn´s incredible orchestrations!
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Post by deej4life on Dec 30, 2023 3:49:03 GMT
The London production (and by extension the UK tour) really need to push the casts with better direction, particularly when it comes to the comedy. For lack of a better word, they need to "Americanise" the show a bit.
Glinda, particularly in Act 1, relies entirely on someone having good comedic timing to carry the performance. I know that English audiences tend to be a tad more "reserved" than their US counterparts, but Glinda really should be pushing in Act 1 to get the laughs out of every line. Unfortunately a lot of the UK Glindas over the years completely miss the mark, and it makes for painful viewing when key comedic scenes like Popular only gets mild responses from the audience.
This sentiment also extends to the ensemble, where comedic timing is just far superior on Broadway. I'm not entirely sure if these issues are due to not enough direction from management, or too much direction from management, but clearly the current approach is not working.
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 5:35:34 GMT
Agreed. I mean just look at Louise Dearman. She was a posh Galinda the way Wicked UK likes it and yet she was incredibly funny, which is the whole point of Popular. I think they might wanna focus on the more natural approach to Galinda where the focus shifts more to her genuinely wanting to help Elphaba but that shifts away entirely from the main purpose of the song/scene in the show which is comedic relief.
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE".. They should just loosen up and allow actors to make choices again. It's so noticeable when actors are just walking towards their mark and waiting for their cue, they look bored and stiff.
Also for the love of Oz fix the loud/distorted audio issues because it really is doing a disservice to Alexia's amazing but nasal voice (plus why are scenes that actually need the volume up like the Monkey Reveal so quiet??). And hire better actors. Ross Harmon leaving but Ryan Reid staying???
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487 posts
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Post by deej4life on Dec 30, 2023 6:46:09 GMT
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE". I agree with this 100%. In particular it drives me mad in Defying Gravity when the Glinda will deliver only their scripted lines as the guards capture them, and they won't ad-lib some words to cover for the time it takes Elphaba to begin her pre-flight lines. Also, the flight choreography itself needs major loosening from the directors. When you look at the Elphabas in the US, they all have their own unique choreography with constant movement of the broom. Meanwhile in the UK it's the same stiff rehearsed movements that really detract from the excitement of the flying section. |
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Post by Jane Parfitt on Dec 30, 2023 9:50:03 GMT
Dear God, no! A number of fan girls already have an obsessive interest and think they own the show, the front row and some of the cast..... INVOLVE the fan base more |
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Post by sb on Dec 30, 2023 10:34:42 GMT
I’ve read that in the last week that the West End production has had a couple of ‘no-fly’ shows.
Fully appreciate that it can’t be helped, but it can’t be great for audiences to be missing out on one of the most prominent moments in the show.
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Post by richey on Dec 30, 2023 11:03:58 GMT
I’ve read that in the last week that the West End production has had a couple of ‘no-fly’ shows. Fully appreciate that it can’t be helped, but it can’t be great for audiences to be missing out on one of the most prominent moments in the show. I don't think that's particularly unusual, they've always happened. I heard it also happened on tour the other day too |
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Post by danb on Dec 30, 2023 11:08:18 GMT
Dear God, no! A number of fan girls already have an obsessive interest and think they own the show and some of the cast..... INVOLVE the fan base more You sound nice…🙃 |
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Post by Being Alive on Dec 30, 2023 11:58:23 GMT
I agree on the not involving the fan base thing - there's ways of refreshing this show that have been listed above that don't turn it in to Heathers or Six....
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 30, 2023 12:38:17 GMT
I saw this morning that wicked were nearly close to celebrating their 12 millionth ozian which is pretty cool. In terms of the fan base, to some extent I agree that some of its more maybe loyal fans they could do a small gesture that wouldn’t impact the show. Something like just a letter from a cast member, signed photo etc. could suffice as a nice gesture. I think whatever show you go to you will get more die hard fans who love a show. Theatre is often such a good escape and if those young girls are having a lovely time, enjoying their favourite show and cast then amazing! We need people to keep supporting shows or I’m worried that more shows will soon see an early closure  |
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Post by toomasj on Dec 30, 2023 14:34:25 GMT
I saw this morning that wicked were nearly close to celebrating their 12 millionth ozian which is pretty cool. In terms of the fan base, to some extent I agree that some of its more maybe loyal fans they could do a small gesture that wouldn’t impact the show. Something like just a letter from a cast member, signed photo etc. could suffice as a nice gesture. I think whatever show you go to you will get more die hard fans who love a show. Theatre is often such a good escape and if those young girls are having a lovely time, enjoying their favourite show and cast then amazing! We need people to keep supporting shows or I’m worried that more shows will soon see an early closure Absolutely, and as a gateway show it is a good thing to get young people involved in theatre. I think that excitement in an audience is important, but there is a line and at Wicked in particular it was so regularly crossed that I would’ve been happy to never see another screaming fan girl in my life. They ruined a couple of performances for me with their antics. But I really don’t think we can blame unreceptive audiences for Wicked West End’s current problems. The producers have gotten really lazy and are just happy to sit and take the profits without any of the effort of keeping the show fresh. A poster above noted the rigidity that I commented on in my long post above. Walking to their spike, saying their line robotically, walking to the next mark etc. There is just no dynamism, excitement or originality in anything anyone does in the show in the last decade or so. It’s a “machine” of the worst kind at this stage. I wonder if the director has taken a rehearsal or given any notes since the 2010’s. I very much doubt it. |
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Post by Being Alive on Dec 30, 2023 15:18:30 GMT
I vaguely remember reading Joe Mantello re rehearsed the Broadway and us tour companies, but we were very much left to 'get on with it'
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Post by toomasj on Dec 30, 2023 15:20:57 GMT
Sounds about right |
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 15:54:15 GMT
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE". I agree with this 100%. In particular it drives me mad in Defying Gravity when the Glinda will deliver only their scripted lines as the guards capture them, and they won't ad-lib some words to cover for the time it takes Elphaba to begin her pre-flight lines. Also, the flight choreography itself needs major loosening from the directors. When you look at the Elphabas in the US, they all have their own unique choreography with constant movement of the broom. Meanwhile in the UK it's the same stiff rehearsed movements that really detract from the excitement of the flying section. Definitely, everyone's so stiff and the show feels stale. This video surfaced yesterday of Defying Gravity on tour and even though Laura, the orchestra, the lighting and yes even the audio levels are great, the broomography just looks so boring and the gap between Glinda's screaming and Elphaba's preflight lines is just so awkward. The guards holding Glinda literally stand still and do nothing |
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 16:07:16 GMT
I vaguely remember reading Joe Mantello re rehearsed the Broadway and us tour companies, but we were very much left to 'get on with it' I believe Wicked UK and US are seperated and therefor Wicked US doesn't look after Wicked UK as they're supposed to look after themselves. Wicked UK sets up their own productions like the UK and International Tours and Wicked US sets up their own (Korea, Australia, Japan etc). You can mostly tell which production is set up by which team, US or UK, by looking at the sets, props and costumes as there are some big differences in design. The only productions where I have noticed both US and UK interfering was with the German and Dutch productions (which were both set up by the same production company and shared the same set) where the production itself was set up by Wicked US with the US design variant of the sets and props but they had the costumes and light cues from Wicked UK. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 30, 2023 16:26:08 GMT
You’d be hard pressed to workout that she’s actually supposed to be flying from the lame “special effect” and the fact that she’s waving the broom around in one hand. Just sit on it dear, help the audience out. We’re not mind readers.
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Post by toomasj on Dec 30, 2023 17:16:24 GMT
You’d be hard pressed to workout that she’s actually supposed to be flying from the lame “special effect” and the fact that she’s waving the broom around in one hand. Just sit on it dear, help the audience out. We’re not mind readers. Always been astonished by this. I understand not needing to signpost everything for an audience but the image of the Wicked Witch of the West on her broomstick is pretty iconic - as are witches riding brooms in general. It’s a strange one. There’s a sort of charmingly dated aesthetic to it in how rubbish it is. Chitty flew a car which looked a million times better long before Wicked opened. Since then we’ve had spectacular effects (see Back to the Future - astonishing work). The effect is surpassed by the average high budget pantomime flying nowadays. It’s all this stuff which needs a refresh. It is just very stale. |
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 30, 2023 17:24:23 GMT
I saw this morning that wicked were nearly close to celebrating their 12 millionth ozian which is pretty cool. In terms of the fan base, to some extent I agree that some of its more maybe loyal fans they could do a small gesture that wouldn’t impact the show. Something like just a letter from a cast member, signed photo etc. could suffice as a nice gesture. I think whatever show you go to you will get more die hard fans who love a show. Theatre is often such a good escape and if those young girls are having a lovely time, enjoying their favourite show and cast then amazing! We need people to keep supporting shows or I’m worried that more shows will soon see an early closure Absolutely, and as a gateway show it is a good thing to get young people involved in theatre. I think that excitement in an audience is important, but there is a line and at Wicked in particular it was so regularly crossed that I would’ve been happy to never see another screaming fan girl in my life. They ruined a couple of performances for me with their antics. But I really don’t think we can blame unreceptive audiences for Wicked West End’s current problems. The producers have gotten really lazy and are just happy to sit and take the profits without any of the effort of keeping the show fresh. A poster above noted the rigidity that I commented on in my long post above. Walking to their spike, saying their line robotically, walking to the next mark etc. There is just no dynamism, excitement or originality in anything anyone does in the show in the last decade or so. It’s a “machine” of the worst kind at this stage. I wonder if the director has taken a rehearsal or given any notes since the 2010’s. I very much doubt it. Oh gosh, what were the screaming fan girls doing if you don’t mind my asking? Just screaming? |
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Post by jaybird89 on Dec 30, 2023 17:42:28 GMT
You’d be hard pressed to workout that she’s actually supposed to be flying from the lame “special effect” and the fact that she’s waving the broom around in one hand. Just sit on it dear, help the audience out. We’re not mind readers. Always been astonished by this. I understand not needing to signpost everything for an audience but the image of the Wicked Witch of the West on her broomstick is pretty iconic - as are witches riding brooms in general. It’s a strange one. There’s a sort of charmingly dated aesthetic to it in how rubbish it is. Chitty flew a car which looked a million times better long before Wicked opened. Since then we’ve had spectacular effects (see Back to the Future - astonishing work). The effect is surpassed by the average high budget pantomime flying nowadays. It’s all this stuff which needs a refresh. It is just very stale. See it's funny I still find the flight really magical and I've seen it a lot now I do have a bit of a personal love for wicked so perhaps I do see some of it through rose tinted glasses but I always think the flight just works I don't think everything needs updating however I will agree that although I still get moved by parts of the show after having seen the show on Broadway this October there is a huge energy difference and I can only imagine it's coming from the top it would be interesting to see if some of the creatives came over to just add some spark into the show again as even though I love it I do feel there are parts which feel very on mark now stand here now do this. I think someone mentioned earlier about Louise Dearman I remember being really thrown at how different she was to the other Glinda's but it really worked and I also thought she had a good balance with the comedy and the serious stuff. I still love the show and I don't think it's as terrible as some make it out to be I will However agree the sound is dreadful and to be honest unless at the very front of the stalls I just don't bother because the sound really is not great. Looking forward to the movie hopefully it may inject some life back in but I guess worrying that popularity may make it worse. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 30, 2023 18:04:16 GMT
Absolutely, and as a gateway show it is a good thing to get young people involved in theatre. I think that excitement in an audience is important, but there is a line and at Wicked in particular it was so regularly crossed that I would’ve been happy to never see another screaming fan girl in my life. They ruined a couple of performances for me with their antics. But I really don’t think we can blame unreceptive audiences for Wicked West End’s current problems. The producers have gotten really lazy and are just happy to sit and take the profits without any of the effort of keeping the show fresh. A poster above noted the rigidity that I commented on in my long post above. Walking to their spike, saying their line robotically, walking to the next mark etc. There is just no dynamism, excitement or originality in anything anyone does in the show in the last decade or so. It’s a “machine” of the worst kind at this stage. I wonder if the director has taken a rehearsal or given any notes since the 2010’s. I very much doubt it. Oh gosh, what were the screaming fan girls doing if you don’t mind my asking? Just screaming? Screaming, whilst holding a microwave and a large jar of Nutella. |
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Post by andrew on Dec 30, 2023 18:19:51 GMT
The flying effect is (in my view) smoothed over by the song, the lighting and tension in the story. I don't think a lot of people walk out of act 1 feeling disappointed by how it ended, which is strange because the bear ain't wrong, it's not a great effect in 2023. I just don't think it matters too much how convincing the way they stage it is, it's exciting no matter what you do.
I don't think I'd be alone in saying that Defying Gravity is one of those moments in musical theatre that will live with me forever though, even if it could be done better with a refurb. Wicked was the first West End show I ever saw and as a young adult back when it was fresh, the whole show was dazzling, but Defying Gravity is what we talked about on the tube home. I haven't gone back since the 10th anniversary but if I did, the act 1 closer is still what I'd most be looking forward to. I've no idea how people seeing it for the first time today feel, I guess it's them you've got to appeal to not me. I don't think I'd weep if they improved it but in the same way I didn't really support re-doing Phantom just for the sake of it I don't know if I'd want them to re-do this. That's a completely different issue for me than a show being stale because of lack of direction, passion in the cast etc.
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