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Post by jadnoop on Jan 15, 2019 10:44:08 GMT
Mosquitoes was fairer because return tickets went back on sale immediately, enabling someone like me, who can only afford the trip if she can get advance train tickets, to get tickets weeks in advance and go. Typically at the National, return tickets pop up all the time. Not so with this: they seem to be holding them back (I've had that auto update system tracking the page and - nothing). Ditto Friday Rush, which allows non-Londoners to have a chance to get something 7 days in advance - they're not doing that for this either. Day seats are not an option for those outside London and it's a theatre funded by the whole country. I agree with you. However, that doesn't change the fact that the issues that you mention (Friday Rush, day seats and returns) are all completely separate from whether the initial sale occurs by ballot or traditional online sale. To say that the NT should have handled the returns differently for this or shouldn't have put on such a star in the first place or should/shouldn't prioritise existing customers are fine, but none of those points is an argument for or against them doing a ballot again. |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 15, 2019 10:45:25 GMT
it will be interesting if her name is enough to get the early morning crowd in line. I reckon it will be. |
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Post by jadnoop on Jan 15, 2019 10:47:22 GMT
You and I clearly have very different ideas of what "statistically significant" means. Considering people were reporting being up to position 9057 in the queue *just to enter the ballot* then I'd have to have a HELLUVA lot of different browsers available to me to put a noticeable dent in any stats, and I don't usually go over two unless it's something like Angels In America I think we might, or maybe not @baemax . I was thinking of all my experiences in the past year or two. I usually run 4 windows and find absolutely invariably that one will be in the very low hundreds at most - sometimes even lower or even straight in, one in the 1500 to 2500 range and the rest over 3000. That's what I was working off. In a traditional ticket sale if you're enter the queue with two goes (I'm not sure if this can be 2 browsers on the same machine, or needs to be 2 separate machines), then you're effectively getting 2 rolls of the die when queue-it assigns the queue positions. Assuming that each entry gets randomly assigned a number and the top X will effectively get tickets, then by entering twice you're (almost but not quite) doubling the likelihood of one of your randomly assigned numbers being within the top X. Your entering twice won't have much effect on everyone else, since your increased likelihood is distributed across the thousands of other entrants, but you are still reducing their chances ever so slightly. It's no different to buying two raffle tickets. Of course, with entering the ballot this makes no difference since getting in earlier or later in the 24 hours shouldn't affect your chances of success (unless you have a second account). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 10:53:06 GMT
I'm not trying to stop people attending the theatre but merely asking that the lifeblood are rewarded on occasions such as this. To use my football metaphor again, do you think it would be fair if someone who had only ever watched the sport from the comfort of their armchair managed to get a ticket for England vs Scotland in a World Cup game and someone who had attended every England game for a decade missed out? Yes, it would be fair. But I don't think 'fair' is the right word because to me, the notion of 'fairness' doesn't even apply. There is stuff out there you might want to see, and you'll be able to see some of it but not all. There's nothing wrong with the points system you described at QPR, but that doesn't make the scenario you described above unfair. I'm sure it'd likely be irritating to the England regular in your example, but oh well there it is. I've spent decades paying to see all kinds of theatre and that makes me feel happy I've done a reasonable bit to support it but it doesn't give me any sense of entitlement or feel I have the right to benefit from some notion of "fairness" - such a concept has never occurred to me. I simply accept that when something attracts high demand, if it's something I'm interested in seeing there's a high chance I'll miss out. I've no interest in potentially annoying myself by wondering how many who beat me to getting tickets were dedicated theatregoers or total first-timers. I'll never know and even if I did, what good would it do me and what would be the point of feeling hard done by about it? those who watch 'their' team in a pub - excluding away games - normally only fall into two categories : * Glory hunters who attach themselves to successful clubs they have no connection with and whom they 'support' merely because they are successful * Old timers who have been priced out and replaced by Johnny Come Latelys from watching their local teams. Both are a sad endictment on modern football and the former are rightfully mocked by football fans across the country relentlessly. If that's serious and not some form of subtle satire - wow! It's one of the most unfair, sweeping things I've ever read. Go and question that 'sweeping' statement on any number of football forums and let me know how you get on... Good local clubs are struggling to stay alive because some people have no interest in football beyond the Premier League and even then only associating themselves with the most successful/high profile. If you think it is fair that families who have followed Arsenal - for example as I know of quite a few cases - for generations are forced to watch THEIR team on the TV rather than from the stands because they've been priced out so Alistair and Tabitha, who showed no interest in football before it became trendy, can boast to their circle of friends and colleagues that they go to matches then you don't understand what football represents. I suggest you also read 'Fans from anywhere, not somewhere' the only article I can remember reading and agreeing with Rod Liddle on... |
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Post by wiggymess on Jan 15, 2019 10:57:53 GMT
Go and question that 'sweeping' statement on any number of football forums and let me know how you get on... Good local clubs are struggling to stay alive because some people have no interest in football beyond the Premier League and even then only associating themselves with the most successful/high profile. If you think it is fair that families who have followed Arsenal - for example as I know of quite a few cases - for generations are forced to watch THEIR team on the TV rather than from the stands because they've been priced out so Alistair and Tabitha, who showed no interest in football before it became trendy, can boast to their circle of friends and colleagues that they go to matches then you don't understand what football represents. I suggest you also read 'Fans from anywhere, not somewhere' the only article I can remember reading and agreeing with Rod Liddle on... None of which backs up your claim that the only people who watch 'their' football team in a pub fall into the 2 categories you described though, does it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:03:02 GMT
Go and question that 'sweeping' statement on any number of football forums and let me know how you get on... Good local clubs are struggling to stay alive because some people have no interest in football beyond the Premier League and even then only associating themselves with the most successful/high profile. If you think it is fair that families who have followed Arsenal - for example as I know of quite a few cases - for generations are forced to watch THEIR team on the TV rather than from the stands because they've been priced out so Alistair and Tabitha, who showed no interest in football before it became trendy, can boast to their circle of friends and colleagues that they go to matches then you don't understand what football represents. I suggest you also read 'Fans from anywhere, not somewhere' the only article I can remember reading and agreeing with Rod Liddle on... None of which backs up your claim that the only people who watch 'their' football team in a pub fall into the 2 categories you described though, does it? I said most rather than all and, as above, please feel free to offer an alternative opinion on any number of football forums and tell me how you get on. |
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Post by wiggymess on Jan 15, 2019 11:05:25 GMT
None of which backs up your claim that the only people who watch 'their' football team in a pub fall into the 2 categories you described though, does it? I said most rather than most and, as above, please feel free to offer an alternative opinion on any number of football forums and tell me how you get on. You posted this on a theatre forum, so, no I won't go to a football forum. So when I'm down the pub with all my friends watching our team, who are very much not in the premership, nor currently anywhere near, which category do I fall under? Or am I, rather conveniently, one of the few not covered in your sweeping statement? |
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Post by altamont on Jan 15, 2019 11:15:25 GMT
I'm not sure if this can be 2 browsers on the same machine, or needs to be 2 separate machines I use 2 different machines with 2 different browsers on each. If you use multiple windows within each browser, even they will get allocated a different position. The trouble is that it's hard to monitor loads of windows and it can cross-contaminate if the numbers are too close in any one browser. Obviously, and I'm sure many also do, once through the checkout I leave the line for all remaining open windows, which pushes those behind up the line. Yesterday when the extra dates for Sweat went on sale, I opened up 5 queuing sessions - on my Mac (Safari and Chrome, in both "normal" and "private" modes, and on my phone. They came up with radically different queueing positions, so as TM says, as soon as I knew which was best, I closed the other 4. This could be described as gaming the system but as I suspect many other people are doing the same, then it seems the obvious thing to do - and the result was I got the ticket I wanted |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:26:19 GMT
I said most rather than most and, as above, please feel free to offer an alternative opinion on any number of football forums and tell me how you get on. You posted this on a theatre forum, so, no I won't go to a football forum. So when I'm down the pub with all my friends watching our team, who are very much not in the premership, nor currently anywhere near, which category do I fall under? Or am I, rather conveniently, one of the few not covered in your sweeping statement? If, like me, you follow a team with little chance of success and who occasionally get on television then, as you know, you are clearly not a glory hunter. You clearly know, however, that Iain from Ipswich who has never been to Manchester and has no family connection to the city will be, rightfully, ridiculed and called a plastic Glory Hunter for proclaiming to be a Manchester City 'fan'. Even old school City fans don't regard him as a fan. He should be supporting Ipswich and his local community. There's a reason why you will find it next to impossible to buy tickets in The Kop, Stretford End or whatever the Kippax is called post move if yu are a glory hunter... It's because the regular fans don't want people like you near them because you don't understand what the club represents to the local community and you dilute the atmosphere. Anyway, as you say, this is a theatre forum and not a football one but if you're being honest about your allegiance to a small club you know that what I am saying about how glory hunters are received, regardless of whether you agree with the position or not, is the consensus opinion. For a reason... |
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Post by floorshow on Jan 15, 2019 11:29:56 GMT
I'm not sure if this can be 2 browsers on the same machine, or needs to be 2 separate machines I use 2 different machines with 2 different browsers on each. If you use multiple windows within each browser, even they will get allocated a different position. The trouble is that it's hard to monitor loads of windows and it can cross-contaminate if the numbers are too close in any one browser. Obviously, and I'm sure many also do, once through the checkout I leave the line for all remaining open windows, which pushes those behind up the line. We go with 4 devices and multiple browsers on each, I don't think that's unusual for regular buyers - we generally get a 2 or 3 digit queue number which takes a lot of the pain out of buying. And when we get to the front and close all those windows we free up a lot of spaces. The number in the queue isn't the most important bit - it's how quickly that number is going down and will you get to 1 before the servers fall over. You also have the advantage of phones or choosing to go to actual box office to buy - these are options that can massively improve your likelihood of getting a ticket based on your experience and judgement of what will be most successful and they are all removed by a ballot that is just randomly preventing people from buying at all. If I admit I am sufficiently tortured now, can I have a ticket please? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:33:59 GMT
lol to all this if the show ends up being bad
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Post by wiggymess on Jan 15, 2019 11:34:26 GMT
You posted this on a theatre forum, so, no I won't go to a football forum. So when I'm down the pub with all my friends watching our team, who are very much not in the premership, nor currently anywhere near, which category do I fall under? Or am I, rather conveniently, one of the few not covered in your sweeping statement? If, like me, you follow a team with little chance of success and who occasionally get on television then, as you know, you are clearly not a glory hunter. You clearly know, however, that Iain from Ipswich who has never been to Manchester and has no family connection to the city will be, rightfully, ridiculed and called a plastic Glory Hunter for proclaiming to be a Manchester City 'fan'. Even old school City fans don't regard him as a fan. He should be supporting Ipswich and his local community. There's a reason why you will find it next to impossible to buy tickets in The Kop, Stretford End or whatever the Kippax is called post move if yu are a glory hunter... It's because the regular fans don't want people like you near them because you don't understand what the club represents to the local community and you dilute the atmosphere. Anyway, as you say, this is a theatre forum and not a football one but if you're being honest about your allegiance to a small club you know that what I am saying about how glory hunters are received, regardless of whether you agree with the position or not, is the consensus opinion. For a reason... Well... no, I don't agree - don't assume that my opinion is the same as yours. I know plenty of people who support teams they're not local to, for a multitude of reasons - one of which will inevitably be levels of success because, amongst other things, that means increased exposure to the team, especially when young fans want a team to support in the premier league, and I don't begrudge anyone that - it feeds their passion for football, for sport, for an active lifestyle, and helps them develop social groups. I'm not going to get on my high horse and force someone to support their local team because that is arbitrary, binary, and not taking into account a multitude of factors. I am an NFL fan, and a supporter of the Minnesota Vikings. What does that make me? Are you suggesting I should not follow them because I wasn't born there, and when I travel over there for a game I am depriving someone from the local community a seat in the stadium? What toss. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:47:24 GMT
If, like me, you follow a team with little chance of success and who occasionally get on television then, as you know, you are clearly not a glory hunter. You clearly know, however, that Iain from Ipswich who has never been to Manchester and has no family connection to the city will be, rightfully, ridiculed and called a plastic Glory Hunter for proclaiming to be a Manchester City 'fan'. Even old school City fans don't regard him as a fan. He should be supporting Ipswich and his local community. There's a reason why you will find it next to impossible to buy tickets in The Kop, Stretford End or whatever the Kippax is called post move if yu are a glory hunter... It's because the regular fans don't want people like you near them because you don't understand what the club represents to the local community and you dilute the atmosphere. Anyway, as you say, this is a theatre forum and not a football one but if you're being honest about your allegiance to a small club you know that what I am saying about how glory hunters are received, regardless of whether you agree with the position or not, is the consensus opinion. For a reason... Well... no, I don't agree - don't assume that my opinion is the same as yours. I know plenty of people who support teams they're not local to, for a multitude of reasons - one of which will inevitably be levels of success because, amongst other things, that means increased exposure to the team, especially when young fans want a team to support in the premier league, and I don't begrudge anyone that - it feeds their passion for football, for sport, for an active lifestyle, and helps them develop social groups. I'm not going to get on my high horse and force someone to support their local team because that is arbitrary, binary, and not taking into account a multitude of factors. I am an NFL fan, and a supporter of the Minnesota Vikings. What does that make me? Are you suggesting I should not follow them because I wasn't born there, and when I travel over there for a game I am depriving someone from the local community a seat in the stadium? What toss. American Football is based on franchises. British Football is based on a deep routed conviction that the club represents the area they are based and the local community. That's why, as you know, glory hunters are ridiculed and why my 'tosh' opinion is the prevalent one among football fans. I suspect the franchise system would render an outsider at grounds in the USA to be run of the mill but there are popular movements at Liverpool and Manchester United, for example, trying to have restrictions on non locals buying tickets in some parts of the ground and the clubs are starting to listen. We'll never agree but we will bore everyone else so let's agree to disagree 👍 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:49:44 GMT
lol to all this if the shows ends up being bad I mean it's a Katie Mitchell production of a Martin Crimp play, I am going to be genuinely devastated if it's good. |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 15, 2019 11:49:46 GMT
Yes, it would be fair. But I don't think 'fair' is the right word because to me, the notion of 'fairness' doesn't even apply. There is stuff out there you might want to see, and you'll be able to see some of it but not all. There's nothing wrong with the points system you described at QPR, but that doesn't make the scenario you described above unfair. I'm sure it'd likely be irritating to the England regular in your example, but oh well there it is. I've spent decades paying to see all kinds of theatre and that makes me feel happy I've done a reasonable bit to support it but it doesn't give me any sense of entitlement or feel I have the right to benefit from some notion of "fairness" - such a concept has never occurred to me. I simply accept that when something attracts high demand, if it's something I'm interested in seeing there's a high chance I'll miss out. I've no interest in potentially annoying myself by wondering how many who beat me to getting tickets were dedicated theatregoers or total first-timers. I'll never know and even if I did, what good would it do me and what would be the point of feeling hard done by about it? If that's serious and not some form of subtle satire - wow! It's one of the most unfair, sweeping things I've ever read. Go and question that 'sweeping' statement on any number of football forums and let me know how you get on... Good local clubs are struggling to stay alive because some people have no interest in football beyond the Premier League and even then only associating themselves with the most successful/high profile. If you think it is fair that families who have followed Arsenal - for example as I know of quite a few cases - for generations are forced to watch THEIR team on the TV rather than from the stands because they've been priced out so Alistair and Tabitha, who showed no interest in football before it became trendy, can boast to their circle of friends and colleagues that they go to matches then you don't understand what football represents. I suggest you also read 'Fans from anywhere, not somewhere' the only article I can remember reading and agreeing with Rod Liddle on... I agree with wiggymess that those comments don't back up your binary categorisation of pub football-watchers, who according to you will also include disenfranchised fans. Plus you wander into the realm of stuff getting more expensive, which is another issue. I'm sure I could indeed see comments on football forums which are in line with what you said, I don't doubt that, but that's just a load of people making the same sweeping statement, which is exactly what it is; it doesn't make it reasonable. Also, whatever the reasons for some no longer being able to regularly watch their team from the stands while others who are relative newcomers can, who are you to question and belittle them and their experience and enjoyment? Taking it back to theatre, the same question applies. If a theatre newbie decides to enter the NT ballot purely because they like the idea of seeing a film star in a small venue and successfully gets tickets, while long-time theatregoers miss out, so what? Equally, so what if the same thing happens in a normal ticket sale, not a ballot? It's disappointing, possibly annoying for the regular but I can't find it in myself to use that as the basis to question or resent the enjoyment or motivation of the non-regular, or make dismissive blanket comments about them such as your "Alistair and Tabitha" one. For whatever reasons, some people come to something they previously had no interest in, whether it's football or theatre or something else. It happens. Getting riled by it and dismissing those people as somehow unworthy seems a waste of energy to me. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jan 15, 2019 11:50:05 GMT
Wondering if in future they should hold back on releasing the cast especially if a major draw and maybe then do a ballot.
Last year Girls & Boys was on sale for a while before before it was released that Carey Mulligan was involved.
The people who wanted to see the play had booked and the scrum only occurred when the ‘star’ name was released.
This is what it is, in life I have missed thousands/millions more plays than I have seen and this will be just another one.
Will continue monitor the site on the off chance with low expectations.
Well done to those who have a ticket and look forward to this thread moving on to discussing the play and will experience by proxy.
Please feel free to review in detail with the caveat of judicious ‘Spoiler Alerts’ as not to spoil it for the ones going later in the run.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 11:51:45 GMT
Wondering if in future they should hold back on releasing the cast especially if a major draw and maybe then do a ballot. Last year Girls & Boys was on sale for a while before before it was released that Carey Mulligan was involved. Royal Court did this for Unreachable which went on sale before Matt Smith was announced. A good approach I think! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 12:00:18 GMT
In recognition of the fact that this production is a months-long performance piece exploring audience suffering in all its forms both prior to the play itself and in the aftermath, would it not be more respectful to the production's intent to let this thread continue spiralling out of control? Maybe we could do like we did with Cursed Child and have one thread specifically for people who've seen the production to discuss its ins and outs while leaving this thread for all the broader palaver?
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Post by wiggymess on Jan 15, 2019 12:15:30 GMT
I am an NFL fan, and a supporter of the Minnesota Vikings. What does that make me? As a Packers fan, I'd rather not say... Are you suggesting I should not follow them because I wasn't born there, and when I travel over there for a game I am depriving someone from the local community a seat in the stadium? Which is a fair point applying to most fans. Anyhow, isn't it time we did swing back to the theatre a bit, please? We most definitely WILL get back to theatre now you've announced yourself a Packer!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 14:02:01 GMT
Wondering if in future they should hold back on releasing the cast especially if a major draw and maybe then do a ballot. Last year Girls & Boys was on sale for a while before before it was released that Carey Mulligan was involved. Royal Court did this for Unreachable which went on sale before Matt Smith was announced. A good approach I think! Didn't the Almeida do that with 'American Psycho' too? I'm sure I remember it being rather easy to buy tickets when it was announced and then they announced Matt Smith and people struggled to get a ticket due to the bun fight. Or have I made that up because it was all about dear Jonny B for me? |
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Post by crowblack on Jan 15, 2019 14:24:22 GMT
No, why this ballot thing again? If there's a big name with teen or mainstream appeal why not simply release bunches of tickets at various times of day or over several days so people who are at work or school can queue online to buy them, say, at lunchime, 7pm or on a Saturday? And have a returns policy like the one the NT usually uses where returns go on sale immediately rather than holding returns back as additional day seats as some theatres seem to (which, as I said, is only good for locals). |
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Post by sf on Jan 15, 2019 15:38:22 GMT
lol to all this if the shows ends up being bad I mean it's a Katie Mitchell production of a Martin Crimp play, I am going to be genuinely devastated if it's good.
At the very least, I suspect some people who JUST booked to see Ms. Blanchett are going to be in for quite a surprise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 15:43:48 GMT
Wondering if in future they should hold back on releasing the cast especially if a major draw and maybe then do a ballot. Last year Girls & Boys was on sale for a while before before it was released that Carey Mulligan was involved. Royal Court did this for Unreachable which went on sale before Matt Smith was announced. A good approach I think! EDIT: Ryan already made the same comment as me!
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Post by peggs on Jan 15, 2019 18:03:12 GMT
Goodness haven't you all been busy while I've been without WiFi. I have a ticket, I am just going due to star casting, I'd rather it was in something that sounds more likely to be enjoyable but figure this is probably my one chance to see her. I do go to theatre and NT quite regularly if that has any relevance.
I am a football fan, I don't support my local team, I have had verbal crap because of this, I've supported them for 25 years through bits of triumph and bits of utter poo and don't think I'll change now thanks.
Frankly I'm currently most worried about possible snow/bad weather preventing my visit.
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Post by gingerB on Jan 15, 2019 21:50:53 GMT
so it turns out that if you buy a pair of daily tickets in the queue , or if you had already bought tickets on the ballot, you can't buy additional daily tickets. So it's two tickets for the whole run of the play regardless the way you bought the tickets.
they really need to make this clear because people will think they can come back another day and queue if they want to see the play again. Because at the moment only says two tickets per person for the day but nothing about the whole run of the play. That was only for the ballot .
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