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Post by vegas on Jun 13, 2018 22:53:13 GMT
I found it confusing and rather unsatisfying. The supposed love triangle really didn't present as such. There wasn't any hint of a potential for violence from any of the Irish characters, nor any hint of what happened to the Lieutenant. (I though maybe he just went AWOL because he liked Ireland and hated the army.) I couldn't see why Manus assumed that he would be a suspect. It wasn't even clear how much he knew about Maire and the Lieutenant. It felt like there ought to be a third act, or, alternatively, as though some crucial scenes had been chopped out. The situation had just barely become interesting when the play suddenly ended. The final tableau seemed unearned.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 13, 2018 22:53:24 GMT
Btw, I'm going to see Friel's Aristocrats at the Donmar in August and thinking of trying to dash for a late overnight bus home. I haven't seen the play before so please don't give any plot details away, but can anyone tell me if it's a long play? If it's under 3 hours my plan is probably do-able!
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Post by andrew on Jun 13, 2018 22:54:15 GMT
The soldiers were back out in black modern day soldier costumes tonight, so if they were tweaking it then they've tweaked it right back again. I quite liked this, and whilst I'm not his biggest fan it's a bit boring that for an NT play that people are being vaguely positive about and thats garnered very favourable critic reviews, the thread about it still has people clamouring for Rufus Norris's resignation. It'll happen eventually, lets try and be positive when the Nash is getting it right.
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Post by harrietcraig on Jun 14, 2018 0:38:16 GMT
Btw, I'm going to see Friel's Aristocrats at the Donmar in August and thinking of trying to dash for a late overnight bus home. I haven't seen the play before so please don't give any plot details away, but can anyone tell me if it's a long play? If it's under 3 hours my plan is probably do-able! When Aristocrats was done at the Irish Repertory Theatre in New York in 2009, the running time was 2 hours and 15 minutes, so you should be OK. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 14, 2018 8:26:28 GMT
Great - thank you! Yes, should be time enough to get to Victoria Coach Station. I'm doing a Allelujah and Aristocrats double bill. |
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5,691 posts
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Post by lynette on Jun 14, 2018 17:10:42 GMT
I don’t buy a programme usually nowadays but this time I did. It does have some good stuff in it including a diary written by Friel about the writing of this play. He says at one point that it is not political but it is all about the language and then again that he does not favour concept plays. ( hear that David Hare?) but then what does the NT do? Plonk a purely political ending ( don’t we love a lighting change and good clange noise to imdicate prisons?) which isn’t in the text right there at the end. As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid?
The audience was full of young people. It must still be lurking on the A level syllabus then. It is a masterpiece and here, very well done except for that last moment. They just couldn’t help themselves could they?
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1,103 posts
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Post by mallardo on Jun 15, 2018 8:05:27 GMT
I don’t buy a programme usually nowadays but this time I did. It does have some good stuff in it including a diary written by Friel about the writing of this play. He says at one point that it is not political but it is all about the language and then again that he does not favour concept plays. ( hear that David Hare?) but then what does the NT do? Plonk a purely political ending ( don’t we love a lighting change and good clange noise to imdicate prisons?) which isn’t in the text right there at the end. As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid? The audience was full of young people. It must still be lurking on the A level syllabus then. It is a masterpiece and here, very well done except for that last moment. They just couldn’t help themselves could they?
With all due respect, of course the play is political. How could it not be? Friel's diary entry underscores the point when he says he's worried that the political element will overwhelm the language issue. As it turned out he solved the problem. The political element does not overwhelm but it's certainly always there and powerfully so.
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Post by asfound on Jun 15, 2018 8:21:16 GMT
As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid? This just seems to be wear we are in our current climate. No nuance, no subtlety, everything has to be big STATEMENTS and obvious REFERENCES. West End aside, almost every play I've seen recently has had some rather tedious, shoehorned and rather predictable nod to bien pensant political thought, Fox News at Machinal last night and the Trump cap at Julius Caesar. Politics now seems to be about empty sloganeering on social media, I guess they are just catering to that rather than trust people to be able to think for themselves. |
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Post by nash16 on Jun 15, 2018 8:30:55 GMT
I don’t buy a programme usually nowadays but this time I did. It does have some good stuff in it including a diary written by Friel about the writing of this play. He says at one point that it is not political but it is all about the language and then again that he does not favour concept plays. ( hear that David Hare?) but then what does the NT do? Plonk a purely political ending ( don’t we love a lighting change and good clange noise to imdicate prisons?) which isn’t in the text right there at the end. As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid? The audience was full of young people. It must still be lurking on the A level syllabus then. It is a masterpiece and here, very well done except for that last moment. They just couldn’t help themselves could they? The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 9:49:55 GMT
I don’t buy a programme usually nowadays but this time I did. It does have some good stuff in it including a diary written by Friel about the writing of this play. He says at one point that it is not political but it is all about the language and then again that he does not favour concept plays. ( hear that David Hare?) but then what does the NT do? Plonk a purely political ending ( don’t we love a lighting change and good clange noise to imdicate prisons?) which isn’t in the text right there at the end. As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid? The audience was full of young people. It must still be lurking on the A level syllabus then. It is a masterpiece and here, very well done except for that last moment. They just couldn’t help themselves could they? The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? A coda is a concluding section and Network had already concluded. You could call it a postscript, I suppose.
It wasn't patronising although it was a deliberate provocation and it was good to see the few there who laud the rise of populist nationalism being suitably angry. Personally, I want action rather than words as we are sleepwalking to disaster and people need to go further than just nodding along.
Van Hove did a production of 'The Fountainhead' exhibiting the pathetic, whinging 'student politics' of Ayn Rand, so he's not just provocative in one direction.
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Post by nash16 on Jun 15, 2018 11:32:38 GMT
The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? A coda is a concluding section and Network had already concluded. You could call it a postscript, I suppose.
It wasn't patronising although it was a deliberate provocation and it was good to see the few there who laud the rise of populist nationalism being suitably angry. Personally, I want action rather than words as we are sleepwalking to disaster and people need to go further than just nodding along.
Van Hove did a production of 'The Fountainhead' exhibiting the pathetic, whinging 'student politics' of Ayn Rand, so he's not just provocative in one direction.
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 12:02:30 GMT
A coda is a concluding section and Network had already concluded. You could call it a postscript, I suppose.
It wasn't patronising although it was a deliberate provocation and it was good to see the few there who laud the rise of populist nationalism being suitably angry. Personally, I want action rather than words as we are sleepwalking to disaster and people need to go further than just nodding along.
Van Hove did a production of 'The Fountainhead' exhibiting the pathetic, whinging 'student politics' of Ayn Rand, so he's not just provocative in one direction.
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂 Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
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1,217 posts
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Post by nash16 on Jun 15, 2018 17:30:22 GMT
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂 Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
Wow. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 17:53:43 GMT
Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
Wow. I thought I was agreeing with you! The NT audience seems, more than not, to be middle class liberal. Happy to pay lip service to radical politics but nothing more. So putting in the Trump appearance allows for a bit of safe self righteous indignation. I’m not sure I’d call that patronising on Van Hove’s part but more akin to pandering. |
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Post by foxa on Jul 7, 2018 22:08:41 GMT
How enjoyable to see something really good in the Olivier - an absolutely genius play. I'd only ever read it, so was so happy to see it and in such a fine production. P.S. A Mexican artist, Sodi, constructed a wall made of long specially crafted and signed bricks in front of the National. When we arrived they were letting people choose a brick and take it away in a special canvas bag. I have FOMO (fear of missing out) and wanted one, but my husband convinced me that it wasn't worth carting around the National and into the cloakroom, so I left it. BUT there were still some left when we got out of the play, so I chose one (was filmed selecting it) and got my free brick, canvas bag and certificate. Luckily I've been working out with weights because it was bloody heavy and we had a walk/train/bus to get home. But 'Ta Dah!' a special political piece of art for my garden. observer.com/2018/07/bosco-sodi-erects-a-brick-border-wall-for-london-art-night-2018/ |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 8, 2018 15:30:48 GMT
I enjoyed this at yesterday's matinee, strong cast and atmospheric set. I'd never seen the play before, and knew little about it. I thought it a good play but I just don't get that it's a work of genius or, a masterpiece.
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Post by foxa on Jul 9, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
I'm glad you enjoyed it, tmesis. Just for fun, let me argue my point for the genius/masterpiece stuff.
Friel transports us to a place/time about which I knew very little (rural Ireland of 1833, hedge schools) - right there, fascinating choice It could so easily have been simply English bad, Irish nationalists good. But instead, Friel gives us a rich varied piece where you have the extreme English bad (with the seen character of Lancey) and the extreme Irish nationalist bad (the unseen Donnelly twins) and in between, with all the major characters, you have the whole range of three-dimensional, sympathetic people caught in between. There are about five characters in it for whom I feel deeply and see no easy solutions - so that in itself is unusual. Add to that his use of language - both in his enjoyment of it, his diction, turn of phrase, but also what it represents (am sure many a doctoral thesis has been done on this.) And his humour - at a very dark moment, he willed me to laughter when a Beckettian tramp character is musing about marrying Athena ('But I find myself wondering is she is human enough for me or am I GODLIKE enough for her.') It also has one of the most beautiful love scenes ever. And the relationship between the father and his sons (both of whom are so beautifully characterised - often a single line telling you so much - Owen's self-loathing on 'They pay me', the whole story of Manus's relationship with his father summed up in his saying he paid for the books by the slaughtering of a pet lamb.)
I can't think of a playwright writing now who can do so much, so well.
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Post by mallardo on Jul 9, 2018 11:05:12 GMT
Well said, foxa - I agree with you, especially about that love scene, beautiful in its conception and, in this case, so beautifully played by the actors.
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Post by lynette on Jul 9, 2018 17:34:29 GMT
You don’t have to argue with me, foxa, I think Translations is a masterpiece.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 21:10:08 GMT
In many ways Butterworth’s Ferryman owes a debt to the writing of Brian Friel and Seamus Heaney (especially the Bog poems). I thought this was a canonical work until I saw this production which seemed to drain all the energy out of the first act as did the lack of an urgent context.
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Post by lynette on Jul 9, 2018 21:35:09 GMT
In many ways Butterworth’s Ferryman owes a debt to the writing of Brian Friel and Seamus Heaney (especially the Bog poems). I thought this was a canonical work until I saw this production which seemed to drain all the energy out of the first act as did the lack of an urgent context. Well for a start the director might have read the programme in which Friel is quoted as to his intentions. Of course we can reinterpret a play. They do it with Wille all the time but here I think the director is wilfully ignoring the beauty of the work and trying to cram it into a political tin it doesn't fit into. And when will directors realise that we punters are well able to understand the inferences of a play as written. We do not need a big directorial finger shoved up our noses. As it were. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 15:18:57 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone.
Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound.
I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me.
Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 11, 2018 17:00:30 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone. Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound. I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me. Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman. I was there this afternoon and had no issues with sound, not withstanding the fact I was in the front row, I know there were issues as the stage manager addressed the audience after the interval. Easy mistake to make, but imagine so annoying for the people affected. The set was dark and bleak and captures beautifully the Irish peat bogs of the 1830’s in the Connemar/Donegal area. Brian Friel once he pops his clogs, will be remembered as one of those great Irish playwrights and will join the list with his this play is nothing short of genius and proves the author is a true visionary. The ending has been updated to put a modern slant on it, with imperial rule from the British empire for most of the play and how Irish individualism was squashed and British troops destroying Irish income (agriculture) under the guise of a British troop going missing to today with Brexit looming and the possibility of a hard boarder. Also some tremendous acting top notch, thought Laurence Kinkan was brilliant. 4 Stars |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 17:24:17 GMT
Apparently someone got up and left after the announcement, according to my friend who stayed.
Am still very grumpy. May have a large gin and tonic once I have put my daughter to bed.
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Post by barrowside on Aug 11, 2018 18:34:36 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone. Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound. I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me. Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman. I was there this afternoon and had no issues with sound, not withstanding the fact I was in the front row, I know there were issues as the stage manager addressed the audience after the interval. Easy mistake to make, but imagine so annoying for the people affected. The set was dark and bleak and captures beautifully the Irish peat bogs of the 1830’s in the Connemar/Donegal area. Brian Friel once he pops his clogs, will be remembered as one of those great Irish playwrights and will join the list with his this play is nothing short of genius and proves the author is a true visionary. The ending has been updated to put a modern slant on it, with imperial rule from the British empire for most of the play and how Irish individualism was squashed and British troops destroying Irish income (agriculture) under the guise of a British troop going missing to today with Brexit looming and the possibility of a hard boarder. Also some tremendous acting top notch, thought Laurence Kinkan was brilliant. 4 Stars |
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