2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Mar 12, 2016 20:23:31 GMT
Theatre Board is currently the only chat board I use to discuss theatre, and I'm pretty happy and satisfied with that as it's completely brilliant. This means that, obviously, I'm not a member of the BroadwayWorld chat board - and I know many on this board are. I'm not sure whether people have heard about this, but actress Patti Murin (who was due to be in Broadway musical 'Nerds' that was pulled at the last minute as financing fell through) has "taken on the chat boards" - specifically BroadwayWorld - campaigning against the negativity and snarky comments on there. Her blog post is a pretty interesting read, as are some of the comments left below it, and I'd be interested to know what people's thoughts on it are, as this board can get heated but it's still a lovely place to be and, as I said, I'm not a member of the BroadwayWorld chat board, but I sometimes feel that the same can't be said over there. pattimurin.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/the-one-where-patti-takes-on-the-chat-boards/ |
|
617 posts
|
Post by loureviews on Mar 12, 2016 21:04:33 GMT
I'm afraid I have no idea who Patti Murin is, but this blog post makes her sound terribly unprofessional.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2016 22:40:22 GMT
I occasionally check Broadwayworld but, more often, talkinbroadway. The latter can get petty but the former often has a flippant nastiness that is quite distasteful.
As for Murin she just verbalised what many in the business think; not that people on chat boards don't always like stuff (because that's a given) but that blatant untruths, mangled gossip and spurned 'fans' vitriol are given equal prominence. In a way I wish that more people verbalised it; as with any form of personal abuse, if ignored it does no good.
|
|
7,251 posts
|
Post by Jon on Mar 13, 2016 0:33:06 GMT
In the case of BWW, the trolling and general bitchiness had got out of hand and they've finally gotten around to doing something about it. Theatreboard and the old board are pretty mild in comparison, only certain threads like the Bend it like Beckham thread have been heated enough for mods to close it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coated on Mar 13, 2016 1:17:29 GMT
Ouch. I don't think that a blog post demanding love, adoration and unicorns, followed by some snark about stoopid posters is the best way to deal with snarky "chat boards".
I generally don't care for slander and malicious gossip, but I sure don't see it as my responsibility to "spread positivity"
|
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2016 4:14:37 GMT
What's funny is the entire Nerds thread was the most civil, understanding, and sympathetic show-closure-related thread I had seen in a LONG time, and I've been reading that board since its inception. Obviously Patti had has a lot of stuff to say about BWW for years (even though the term is generally not "chat board") and got it off her chest immediately after losing her job in a sudden way. Which is probably not the best time to ever look at a message board related to your industry, no matter what industry you're in. Take a look at her previous blog post about resolutions she made upon turning 35. I don't think you can say she kept some of them. I also find it hilarious that Rob Diamond and Company doing a lot of this out of humiliation. There have been problems on that board for years and years, and yet one performer who had an unfortunate thing happen to her writes an emotional, misguided blog post, a few of her big-name friends agree with her, and suddenly they act. It's also interesting to see who has not said a thing about this... and who has lashed out despite being very well-regarded on the BWW board. That means you, Steve Pasquale. (This even made it in the NYT because apparently it's a slow news week. www.nytimes.com/2016/03/12/theater/the-actress-patti-murin-takes-on-broadway-chat-board.html?_r=0 ) |
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2016 4:30:44 GMT
Matthew Murray (critic for Talkin' Broadway) had the most calm, rational response about this whole thing outside of some stuff that was already said on BWW. This was in response to performers who said the boards should come down all together; I'm sure there are a lot out there who just want more decorum, not for them to come down.
Some highlights:
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 5:21:03 GMT
Murray creates a strawman, the problem isn't discussing theatre, what the problem is, is misinformation, lying and insults.
It's like a Trump rally on BWW at times.
|
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2016 5:28:26 GMT
The problem, in this case, IS addressing discussion (and not just the Wild West that can happen on BWW) as both Murin and Pasquale have asked for the stamping out of the board:
"I am officially asking you, Broadway World, to take down your chat boards." - direct quote from her post
I feel bad for the rest of the Nerds team, as I'm sure this isn't the legacy they wanted to be remembered by.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 6:48:33 GMT
It's always been this way. Before web chat boards there was Usenet, and before Usenet there was hanging around in groups spreading gossip. The only difference today is that modern forums make it trivially easy to obfuscate your identity and be more of a tool than you ever would if people knew who you were. Fortunately, most other people are smart enough to recognise these people for what they are and treat their comments accordingly.
It's not a problem with web chat boards. It's a problem with people. You're always going to get people who think it's clever to be destructive; people who don't care about any damage they cause so long as they get to have their bit of fun. You can't stop them, because if you block them in one place they'll just go elsewhere and carry on. But you can stop treating them as though their opinions matter.
To quote Larry Wall: “I do quarrel with logic that says, ‘Stupid people are associated with X, therefore X is stupid.’ Stupid people are associated with everything.”
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 8:48:02 GMT
|
|
19,856 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 13, 2016 10:25:53 GMT
The comment about Glinda's high C is quite funny  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 11:08:18 GMT
I don't know anything about the chat boards being criticised but I hate that very American view that anything less than adulation with multiple exclamation marks makes you a bad person. I don't want to read a load of empty "positivity", I'm interested in thoughtful responses to what people see on stage, which is what we mostly get here. Along with a bit of gossip and filth, which I'm 100% in favour of.
|
|
270 posts
|
Post by littlesally on Mar 13, 2016 11:11:59 GMT
The posts which are speculative (but passed as opinion) often by people who haven't yet seen a show (or before the show even hits first preview) do concern me. Along with the persistent posts belittling the opinions of others as less valid or lacking in taste.
I know I can be a bit OCD about shows I love but some posters seem hell bent on trashing shows they dislike. As if only liking very few shows automatically makes you more discerning. Tastes vary wildly.
The old board had lots of this but this one seems less so. Long may it last.
|
|
19,856 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 13, 2016 11:33:16 GMT
When I was reading it I was imagining some middle aged Broadway broad who'd been round the block a few times. Then I google-imaged her. She looks about 17. It does make me gag a little bit when these artistic types are talking about co-workers and it's always the case that they're THE most talented actor/director/writer in the whole world. "Yes it's directed by Jeremy Farquelharson who is simply THE most BRILLIANT new talent I'm completely in awe of him blah blah blah" Give it a rest love.  The bit about rushing through the report abuse button sounds highly suspect. It seems more likely that they had the facility already and for whatever reason didn't use it but decided to switch it on in response to her blog as some sort of appeasement. Because now BWW look really responsible and co-operative, and not like some faceless commercial giant enjoying the ad revenue gained from thousands of clicks on their forum. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 12:35:16 GMT
The problem, in this case, IS addressing discussion (and not just the Wild West that can happen on BWW) as both Murin and Pasquale have asked for the stamping out of the board: Because the discussion is mixed in with the lies, misinformation etc. and allowed to be seen as equally valid. If a board can't be trusted to have that sort of thing moderated then of course it should be closed down. Would you really disagree with that? |
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Mar 13, 2016 12:42:32 GMT
It's a difficult one. Of course some of the things she quoted should not have been posted but to then ask for the boards to be shut down/completely separated is a bit of a big first step.
Of course, Broadway World will want to keep the actors on side so they can get exclusives/interviews etc. With so many of them endorsing her blog puts them in a very difficult position.
Discussion is a massive part of the Theatre and because not everyone goes it's important to have a place online where people can come together to discuss.
As long as people are expressing opinions and not stating lies as fact, I will defend them, no matter how much I disagree. It's obviously difficult when you have an emotional attachment to the person/show/whatever but as adults we have to be able to deal with that in everyday life, so Broadway/West End discussion should be no different.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 13:12:22 GMT
Just updating myself on the saga via the BWW board and they'd started putting together a blacklist of performers (which appears to have been nixed, so first strike to the new 'report button', followed by predictable outrage at such censorship). That 'The Crucible' with its McCarthyite witch-hunts is in previews there appears not to have got its message through.
I wasn't being facetious in my Trump references - the entitlement to say anything, however, untruthful or inflammatory, the 'us and them' posture, even (from only a few thankfully) the idea that 'their' musicals are being trashed by incomers (I had that directed at me a few times, especially when praising John Doyle's work, who was also routinely described as English (which would be news to him)).
|
|
433 posts
|
Post by DuchessConstance on Mar 13, 2016 13:39:16 GMT
When I was reading it I was imagining some middle aged Broadway broad who'd been round the block a few times. Then I google-imaged her. She looks about 17. She's 35. I feel quite torn. On one hand, she makes some good points about how abuse and libel shouldn't be acceptable. But then lumps it all in with criticism or negative opinion in general. In the comment section she mentions a BBW poster calling her the C-word. That's outright abuse - why not mention it in the post itself? |
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2016 14:18:29 GMT
The bit about rushing through the report abuse button sounds highly suspect. It seems more likely that they had the facility already and for whatever reason didn't use it but decided to switch it on in response to her blog as some sort of appeasement. Because now BWW look really responsible and co-operative, and not like some faceless commercial giant enjoying the ad revenue gained from thousands of clicks on their forum. I'm sure this is the case. They're afraid of losing ad revenue and of actors refusing to cooperate in their videos, interviews, etc. to contribute to the all-important content (quantity, not quality). |
|
2,041 posts
|
Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2016 14:19:55 GMT
The problem, in this case, IS addressing discussion (and not just the Wild West that can happen on BWW) as both Murin and Pasquale have asked for the stamping out of the board: Because the discussion is mixed in with the lies, misinformation etc. and allowed to be seen as equally valid. If a board can't be trusted to have that sort of thing moderated then of course it should be closed down. Would you really disagree with that? Yes, I would (and I do). They need to phrase their arguments better, and to look at it from the perspective of a fan who doesn't live in the immediate NYC area. |
|
|
|
Post by Coated on Mar 13, 2016 14:33:34 GMT
I've read (ok - skimmed, not really up to indulge that much drivel) the rest of the article now and really think she shot way off the mark. It reads like an emotional and entitled response against any form of non-positive criticism.
It's a shame that her valid points about speculative slander get lost amongst the point scoring against the apparently evil unwashed masses that frequent the Internet.
The fact that she is asking BWW to do a whatsonstage on their forum shows a level of intolerance that rivals and possibly exceeds that of the BWW trolls she condemns. Asking for decent moderation would be a positive thing for board that goes a bit over the top
Makes we very happy that we're a free forum for actual discussion instead of pre-approved fan-girling.
I saw a tweet when the closure of the WOS board was announced, saying something along the lines of 'Oh, dear, where will they go now to eviscerate us'. Looks like online discussion is seen as a bit of a nuisance in parts of the actorly fraternity
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 14:59:38 GMT
I saw a tweet when the closure of the WOS board was announced, saying something along the lines of 'Oh, dear, where will they go now to eviscerate us'. Looks like online discussion is seen as a bit of a nuisance in parts of the actorly fraternity I find this a bit sad. I'm pretty wary of internet boards but over the last few years I've seen a lot of theatre that I would have missed due lurking on the old board. True, I never liked the more aggressive posts, but it's not hard to tell who is making a valid balanced criticism and those who just like to wind people up. I just skip posts of the latter category as I think they are best ignored. Having said that, the new board seems to be a very positive place to date. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 15:24:06 GMT
Because the discussion is mixed in with the lies, misinformation etc. and allowed to be seen as equally valid. If a board can't be trusted to have that sort of thing moderated then of course it should be closed down. Would you really disagree with that? Yes, I would (and I do). They need to phrase their arguments better, and to look at it from the perspective of a fan who doesn't live in the immediate NYC area. You want people to spread lies and misinformation? Please tell me I'm reading that wrongly! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 15:45:30 GMT
Because the discussion is mixed in with the lies, misinformation etc. and allowed to be seen as equally valid. If a board can't be trusted to have that sort of thing moderated then of course it should be closed down. You can't expect moderators to be experts on the subject of every thread, so how are they supposed to tell the lies from the truth? In some cases it's obvious that someone's acting maliciously and attempting to cause trouble, but if it's obvious to the moderators then it's equally obvious to everyone else and the attempt fails. The damaging rumours are the ones that are believable. |
|
