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Post by Jan on Jul 12, 2018 5:56:42 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ?
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jul 12, 2018 6:02:46 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? To be fair, History Boys opened when he was 70, but yeah fair enough |
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Post by alece10 on Jul 12, 2018 6:48:22 GMT
Bear in mind this was the first preview and only one persons opinion. I think we need to hear other opinions before dismissing it ad we can't all like the same things
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 7:27:55 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? To be fair, History Boys opened when he was 70, but yeah fair enough Caryl Churchill is 80 and seems to be getting better and better even as her plays get shorter and shorter |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 7:37:06 GMT
David Hare is in his seventies, as is Howard Brenton who got good reviews for his play The Shadow Factory early this year. We could also ask each other to name a really fantastic play written by someone under 30 in recent years and I think we’d draw a blank. There would be a handful of good ones but astounding? I am willing this play to be good now to prove something to the ageist naysayers, but then I was willing England to get through to the WC final and look where that got us.
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Post by lonlad on Jul 12, 2018 8:31:07 GMT
Caryl Churchill leaves anyone of any age in the dust. She and Bennett are on different planes.
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Post by theatrefan77 on Jul 12, 2018 9:01:09 GMT
Well, I enjoyed this and have booked to see it again later in the run. Yes, it's not one of the best Bennett's plays but it's funny and witty and has some touching moments. Maybe they should iron a few bits get rid of some of the musical numbers which don't add much to the plot. But overall I found this a very entertaining night out. Just my two cents.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jul 12, 2018 9:33:33 GMT
I don't think it's about ageism, it's just that most artists' careers (especially writers, directors and, to a certain extent, actors) are like parabols, where they keep getting better and better until a point where they start just relying on past glories, repeating themselves or losing touch with their time. Most young playwrights' plays are pretentious and most older playwrights' plays don't say anything they haven't said before and better. Of course you have the great exceptions in both sides, like Annie Baker and Caryl Churchill.
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Post by Jan on Jul 12, 2018 12:09:05 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? “Broken Glass” by Arther Miller (79) I suppose. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 12, 2018 12:20:54 GMT
Verdi was 80 when he premiered Falstaff - OK not a play - but still a work of creative genius.
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Post by Jan on Jul 12, 2018 13:13:33 GMT
Verdi was 80 when he premiered Falstaff - OK not a play - but still a work of creative genius. In some areas of the arts the work tends to continue to improve with the age of the artist - painting is frequently cited and there are many examples. Not the case with playwrights or theatre directors though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 15:06:45 GMT
Caryl Churchill leaves anyone of any age in the dust. She and Bennett are on different planes. Indeed - AB's plays don't make 30 mins feel like eternity. After the play with 20 mins of an old man undressing and dressing again I have given up trying to persuade myself that Caryl Churchill isn't the most tedious writer on the planet. |
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Post by sf on Jul 12, 2018 16:06:32 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ?
Arthur Miller was 79 when he wrote 'Broken Glass'.
[edit]...and I should have read further down the thread before I posted!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 18:29:31 GMT
Verdi was 80 when he premiered Falstaff - OK not a play - but still a work of creative genius. In some areas of the arts the work tends to continue to improve with the age of the artist - painting is frequently cited and there are many examples. Not the case with playwrights or theatre directors though. I'm not sure that we're ever given the chance to find out. Unfortunately, theatre is obsessed with youth. Producers seem to be constantly searching for the next best thing and when they find it, discard it in favour of the newest new find. How many playwrights are given the opportunity to develop? As far as I am aware most works of genius, even in theatre, are written by older people (the fifties and sixties seem particularly productive) - look at GB Shaw, Samuel Beckett, Michael Frayn, Churchill we've already mentioned, Arthur Miller. Pam Gems wrote some of her best plays in her mid-sixties. Even dancers who lose the physical ability to dance as they age produce fantastic work as choreographers when they're older. Why would it be any different for playwrights, apart from producers who don't want wrinkles hanging around their brand new buildings? |
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Post by harrietcraig on Jul 12, 2018 21:48:03 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? I don't know if Tom Stoppard (now age 81) has a new play in the works, but if he does, I'll reserve judgment on no one over 80 writing a good play until I see it. Also, it's an obvious point, but let's not forget that you have to live to be 80 to write a play when you're over 80. Somewhere in that great "What if?" library in the sky are the manuscripts of all the plays an 80-year-old Shakespeare, or Chekhov, or August Wilson would have written (along with all the operas Mozart never lived to write, and all the songs George Gershwin never lived to write). |
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Post by lonlad on Jul 12, 2018 22:56:37 GMT
With all due respect to Abby, Bennett himself I suspect would be embarrassed even to be mentioned in the same sentence as Churchill, who is one of the very few theatrical game-changers out there and remains many people's favourite living playwright (Tony Kushner and David Hare, to name but two) -- Bennett began as a sketch artist and, bless him, has rarely moved beyond that. HISTORY BOYS was a great production of a play that would NEVER work nowadays, given current sensibilities and sensitivities. And HABEAS CORPUS at the Donmar was pure bliss. The TALKING HEADS are genius too. But beyond that ....
I fear for this latest one but we shall see.
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Post by Jan on Jul 13, 2018 6:29:05 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? Also, it's an obvious point, but let's not forget that you have to live to be 80 to write a play when you're over 80. Yes that is true. One interesting (but entirely irrelevant) observation is that if you look at the age demographics in Ancient Rome it is massively skewed to "young" people - the opposite of present day UK. People reached very senior positions in government or the army by their mid-20s and in any randomly selected group of people there'd be very few over the age of 40 which was regarded as "old". This is similar to the age demographics of several present-day African countries due to the impact of AIDS - just anecdotally if you are in your 60s and ask people there how old they think you are they will guess 40. |
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Post by alece10 on Jul 13, 2018 7:17:59 GMT
I think this play is going to produce a very mixed reaction. I enjoyed it, my 2 friends not so much.
It's quite dark and discusses difficult subject matter but some very funny Alan Bennett lines and great acting from the ensemble. I enjoyed the musical numbers too.
Seems in good shape but thought the 1st half dragged a bit and could do with tightening up a bit.
This was my first time at the Bridge theatre and it's a great venue. Sat in gallery 2 facing the stage. Lots of leg room and good rake. However you do feel a long way from the stage and if I went again I would opt for front stalls.
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Post by RedRose on Jul 13, 2018 7:54:57 GMT
Alan Bennett is 84. What's the best play anyone over 80 has written ? I bet there hasn't been a single really good one. Or over 70 ? I don't know if Tom Stoppard (now age 81) has a new play in the works, but if he does, I'll reserve judgment on no one over 80 writing a good play until I see it. Also, it's an obvious point, but let's not forget that you have to live to be 80 to write a play when you're over 80. Somewhere in that great "What if?" library in the sky are the manuscripts of all the plays an 80-year-old Shakespeare, or Chekhov, or August Wilson would have written (along with all the operas Mozart never lived to write, and all the songs George Gershwin never lived to write). Stoppard's last play from 2015 was terrible: The Hard Problem- and even my friend who adores Stoppard says that!
Only seen 3 plays by Churchill so far. Liked the newer 2, but was bored almost to death by the older (Light Shining in Buckinghamshire)- even didn't return after the interval which I don't do very often. But it might be not the play but the production that totally ruined it.
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Post by lynette on Jul 13, 2018 10:29:53 GMT
Ibsen nearly made it and did write powerful stuff in his 70s.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 16:14:24 GMT
With all due respect to Abby, Bennett himself I suspect would be embarrassed even to be mentioned in the same sentence as Churchill, who is one of the very few theatrical game-changers out there and remains many people's favourite living playwright (Tony Kushner and David Hare, to name but two) -- Bennett began as a sketch artist and, bless him, has rarely moved beyond that. HISTORY BOYS was a great production of a play that would NEVER work nowadays, given current sensibilities and sensitivities. And HABEAS CORPUS at the Donmar was pure bliss. The TALKING HEADS are genius too. But beyond that .... I fear for this latest one but we shall see. I could also have added that, to my knowledge, Bennett has not written a play that could reasonably be described as blatantly racist... |
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Post by paddy72 on Jul 13, 2018 23:37:30 GMT
This play is a masterpiece. I’ve never really gone for his other stuff as I found his wit patronising. However here he uses it to advantage as he suddenly turns on his nicely warmed up audience with a sudden, sickening and very harrowing plot twist. Mr Bennett reveals he has a very, very dark heart after all and is as screwed up as the rest of us. I found myself on the edge of my seat. Really thrilling, moving and momentous. The winding up of all the plot threads towards the end was a bit naff but can be forgiven for he doctors final speech, a magnificent damnation of self serving popular white liberal elitism. Everyone including myself leaves the theatre shame faced or at least they would do had they got that his anger is actually all aboutthem and not simply the characters in this wallop of a play. Go see and please let me know if your interpretation of what you hear is the same as mine. Or have I just misread the whole thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 9:57:08 GMT
I could also have added that, to my knowledge, Bennett has not written a play that could reasonably be described as blatantly racist... He's definitely written at least one that's wildly sympathetic to ephebophilia and inappropriate teacher/pupil relationships though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 10:22:29 GMT
He never struck me
As the most sophisticated of people
Either in his writing
Memoirs
Or even his acting or interviews
I think all his work is so self centred
And introspective
He has never left his comfort zone
Humour rather than comedy
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Post by Jan on Jul 14, 2018 14:04:39 GMT
I could also have added that, to my knowledge, Bennett has not written a play that could reasonably be described as blatantly racist... He's definitely written at least one that's wildly sympathetic to ephebophilia and inappropriate teacher/pupil relationships though. His support for Jonathan King in preference to his accusers also fits that pattern. |
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