879 posts
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 13, 2018 21:57:41 GMT
And then there's the elephant in the room about young Eponine...
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Post by Tibidabo on Jan 15, 2018 16:57:34 GMT
It occurred to me the other night - do the girls who play Young Cosette and Young Eponine just go home after their scenes? They don't bow at the end. And is Young Eponine an alternate for Young Cosette? Or do they cast a child to just come and be sung at on stage? I know an ex young WE Eponine. She was only 7 or 8 at the time and it is such a tiny role (she sings a couple of lines with others on the stage, but isn't miked) that it is often a first experience on the WE stage for performing children - as it was for this girl. She most definitely did not cover Cosette, who is much older and has a whole song. The Eponine in question went on to play various Von Trapp children, Matilda classmates, Jemima etc, who have only occasional solo lines to sing and thus learning her craft, before progressing to larger roles with meatier solo parts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 17:14:51 GMT
^Denise Van Outen was a Young Eponine back in 1986/7. The quietest she’s ever been!
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Post by Tibidabo on Jan 15, 2018 17:19:07 GMT
^She was indeed - though she's not the one I know! (I did meet her much later in her career at the final of Any Dream Will Do and she was actually very, very lovely.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 17:20:46 GMT
Carrie Hope Fletcher said in one of her videos that on a final performance for the two young girls, they do come on at the end to bow with their older counterparts. So in her instance, Young Eponine would bow with Carrie and Young Cosette would bow with Zoe Doano and Rob Houchen. *cue unnecessary Carrie criticism*  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 17:53:57 GMT
^She was indeed - though she's not the one I know! ( I did meet her much later in her career at the final of Any Dream Will Do and she was actually very, very lovely.) Oh, listen to you, Tibbs, hob-nobbin' there among the elite...  |
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Post by Tibidabo on Jan 15, 2018 18:00:50 GMT
^Oh yes @caiaphas ! I do like me a bit of hob-nobb-ing with the great washed...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 9:44:35 GMT
Friend saw this recently and said it was distinctly average. In dire need of a tidy up and some energy. Overheard a few other negative mutterings around the house.
I'm still abstaining on the basis of the detrimental re-orchestration and muchly complained about sound.
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349 posts
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Post by kimbahorel on Jan 18, 2018 9:45:45 GMT
I just needed a place to post a post. This is carrieharayel but was trying to change my name and password and got locked out and tried to log back in it wouldn't let me and was on an endless cycle of having to do those thing to identify you as not a robot. But it was a colour one. So I had to make a new account. I thought I'd post that here.
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jan 19, 2018 18:43:20 GMT
Cast/associate creatives change desperately needed. Worst shape since 2004. Weak, poor, tired. Doing AMAZING business though. Give it a year to see the effects. People won’t book to come back next year who have seen it lately.
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Post by The Lost on Jan 20, 2018 12:33:12 GMT
I saw the show the other week, it wasn't BAD necessarily, it just wasn't the strongest I've seen it. One of the things that made the show work was how tight it was, despite the 3 hour running time, each scene and song and facial expression was so clean and captivating. At the moment it seems to lag in the middle due to the fact that the cast aren't really on top of all of the material. There's no stand out cast members, no Peter Lockyer or Jeremy Secomb or dare I say, Carrie Hope Fletcher. Everyone is sort of mediocre-ish. Killian's not awful, but he's not amazing either. It's all just a bit meh.
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Post by kimbahorel on Jan 21, 2018 18:45:30 GMT
Well if it does start to decline I hope they reduce the ticket prices or start day seats or something. I am on 25 show for this cast year. Yeah it's not my fave cast I have seen and there are a few I have see way too many times. But I like a few of the cast who all cover leads (2 swings). Seeing them is costing me quite a bit and now CamMac company is increasing the price - my fave seat £25 now and in March goes to £30.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 19:31:38 GMT
Its blatant complacency. They know the Les Mis brand sells. People will keep buying tickets, but if they don't handle it well, it'll bite them in the arse.
Doesn't bother me too much, that would make Phantom the official longest running musical in London then - A title I think it rightfully deserves anyway given that Les Mis has bounced around the theatres where as Phantom has had a consistently solid run.
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Post by ali973 on Jan 22, 2018 4:32:29 GMT
I think people forget that this was the normal state of Les Mis for a while - just plain and doing just fine but not hugely remarkable - until the 25th anniversary when Cameron pumped in some interesting leads like Norm Lewis and Aflie Boe, up and coming performers like Alexia Khedime, and stunt casted Matt Lucas (good) and Nick Jonas (not good). From then on the cast replacements were quite on par, sometimes even better, leading to the 30th anniversary.
I think theatre fans are the only ones who probably notice the mediocrity with the current cast. Tourists and first time visitors, not so much. While dedicated Les Miz fans have contributed a lot towards its success, I'd say they are still outnumbered by the general attending public who cannot discern any difference as they have no point of comparison. I haven't seen the new cast, nor do I intend to, because everything about them seems to be quite unremarkable and average and I'm not surprised to read these consistently unfavorable remarks about them.
Give it until June, maybe they'll cast it with a better group come cast change. Miss Saigon on Broadway closed, so I'd expect to see some of the Broadway company recruited soon. I'd really hate to see him so type-cast, but Jon Jon would probably make a good Thernadier.
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Post by ali973 on Jan 22, 2018 4:34:28 GMT
His girlfriend (Taylor Louderman who he was in Kinky Boots with) lives there, hence the visits, but maybe he'll go back there though to be closer to her. I'd miss him  REALLY? I follow her on Instagram and he didn't show up on anything. I'm mainly following her because of Mean Girls. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 8:33:42 GMT
I think theatre fans are the only ones who probably notice the mediocrity with the current cast. Tourists and first time visitors, not so much. While dedicated Les Miz fans have contributed a lot towards its success, I'd say they are still outnumbered by the general attending public who cannot discern any difference as they have no point of comparison. I have a friend who went recently, goes to the theatre maybe once every 5 years, or less. Slightly aware of what musicals are doing etc, but no 'theatre fan' by any means. Reported back the show was "distinctly average at best". |
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 22, 2018 23:29:50 GMT
His girlfriend (Taylor Louderman who he was in Kinky Boots with) lives there, hence the visits, but maybe he'll go back there though to be closer to her. I'd miss him REALLY? I follow her on Instagram and he didn't show up on anything. I'm mainly following her because of Mean Girls. She Instagram stories him a lot when they're together! Not so much with photos, they seem quite private. I'm going tomorrow to check out David Thaxton. I will also check out Killian but in a different way |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jan 23, 2018 4:50:26 GMT
I think people forget that this was the normal state of Les Mis for a while - just plain and doing just fine but not hugely remarkable - until the 25th anniversary when Cameron pumped in some interesting leads like Norm Lewis and Aflie Boe, up and coming performers like Alexia Khedime, and stunt casted Matt Lucas (good) and Nick Jonas (not good). From then on the cast replacements were quite on par, sometimes even better, leading to the 30th anniversary. I think theatre fans are the only ones who probably notice the mediocrity with the current cast. Tourists and first time visitors, not so much. While dedicated Les Miz fans have contributed a lot towards its success, I'd say they are still outnumbered by the general attending public who cannot discern any difference as they have no point of comparison. I haven't seen the new cast, nor do I intend to, because everything about them seems to be quite unremarkable and average and I'm not surprised to read these consistently unfavorable remarks about them. Give it until June, maybe they'll cast it with a better group come cast change. Miss Saigon on Broadway closed, so I'd expect to see some of the Broadway company recruited soon. I'd really hate to see him so type-cast, but Jon Jon would probably make a good Thernadier. I don’t often disagree with you Ali, but I do on this point! Just as a point of reference, with Les Mis and Phantom I’ve seen every cast and most covers for lead roles in the last 15 years. My point is this; back when the show was dying at the Palace, some questionable casting decisions hastened the show’s closure. When it transferred to the Queens, an effort was made to reboot the show. Cuts were made, new set and so forth. It pootled along as “Les Mis Lite” for a few years, but circa 2003-2004 the show was in a very serious danger of closure. It discounted on both advanced bookings and at TKTS for every show, with ticket prices considerably cheaper than they’ve risen to some 14 years later. Now I don’t want to upset people and it’s nothing personal, more a general situation than individuals, but the show was incredibly stale - and this was largely down to the same, arguably jaded resident creative team running the show and a very substandard cast collectively. Sean Kingsley and Michael McCarthy headed up the worst single Les Mis performance I’ve ever seen. It was bored, stale, tired and the cast looked like they’d rather be anywhere else. Basically as a final throw in the 2005 cast change, they replaced virtually everybody. Some very key influential people behind the scenes moved on/retired and they brought in the first black West End Javert (Cornell John) as a statement of that effect. They brought back John Owen-Jones, allegedly for a considerable price, as one last chuck at it. Now, as I’ve rationalised before and agree with you - most people don’t sit there and “rate” the individual performers. But a show’s freshness is dependent on so many factors. Morale, relationships backstage, directorial involvement (is the AD willing to come in and run some tightening up rehearsals? Is the dance captain a strong personality and competent in their role? Is he personally putting each new company member in the show?) All of these things in addition to ability/enthusiasm of cast give each show a “sense” or “feeling”. Despite the PHENOMENAL box office the show is doing right now, I have the sense or feeling that the production could be in big trouble in the coming 12/18 months. It is the same feeling I had when it was doing poorly back in 2004. It isn’t instantaneous. Most people prebook their tickets for long runners and plan their visits far in advance. Audiences are down right now for Phantom, it’s at TKTS every day and there are offers around, unlike Les Mis where it’s not even at TKTS on a Monday night, and when it IS there it’s standing room only - upstairs! Phantom is the paying the price now for the *last* cast’s mistakes. The next cast will feel the benefits of this current strong cast, as people start to recommend the show again. Les Mis is doing great now because of the *previous* shape of the show, and in a year’s time I won’t be surprised to see it floundering. As I say, I’m focusing on the cast but really I think it’s the whole show vibe and tightness collectively. |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jan 23, 2018 4:57:44 GMT
Tl;dr version, it’s NOT good at the moment, as most of us (unusually for matters of taste!) agree, but the box office will take 6 months minimum to catch up, by which time the new cast will be playing to quieter houses due to a lack of box office advance
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 8:46:21 GMT
I think theatre fans are the only ones who probably notice the mediocrity with the current cast. Tourists and first time visitors, not so much. While dedicated Les Miz fans have contributed a lot towards its success, I'd say they are still outnumbered by the general attending public who cannot discern any difference as they have no point of comparison. I have a friend who went recently, goes to the theatre maybe once every 5 years, or less. Slightly aware of what musicals are doing etc, but no 'theatre fan' by any means. Reported back the show was "distinctly average at best". That's still missing the point though - your friend still bought a ticket, so the show is still making money. Tourists and casual viewers buy tickets without even thinking about the cast of this show (unless there's a big name involved when the demand becomes even greater) - it doesn't need stunt casting to sell tickets, so the quality of the cast is really pretty irrelevant to how much money it's making. The fans who see the show multiple times make up such a small proportion of any long-running show's revenue that in terms of commercial success it really doesn't matter what they think of the cast. |
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Post by The Lost on Jan 23, 2018 15:45:03 GMT
Phantom is the paying the price now for the *last* cast’s mistakes. What do you mean by this? Not arguing with you, just curious. 3) The current show bears very little resemblance to the original production, and hasn't for many years. That's just the way a long run goes. "Cats" at the end of the run was very little like the original, nor were many other shows. Do shows tend to improve over the course of a long run as they change, or deteriorate as orchestras are gradually cut, possibly set is reduced if it moves theatre etc? I know Starlight Express has undergone so many transformations that since it first opened in Germany it could probably be considered to be 3-4 different shows. |
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Post by The Lost on Jan 23, 2018 15:53:48 GMT
Do shows tend to improve over the course of a long run as they change, or deteriorate A very hard question. Probably needing a thread of it's own, so I'll start one now rather than digress. |
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Post by Jon on Jan 23, 2018 19:07:35 GMT
1) The "Subo" effect gave the show a new lease of life. 2) Mackintosh was on record late last year noting that this show is second only to "Hamilton" in advance bookings in his theatre empire. 3) The current show bears very little resemblance to the original production, and hasn't for many years. That's just the way a long run goes. "Cats" at the end of the run was very little like the original, nor were many other shows. Cameron mentioned in an interview that the show was ticking along and he thought it would close within a few years but then Susan Boyle came along and caused a surge in booking. The film version also helped sales as well. Does anyone know why it moved to the Queens, I've read is was because ALW wanted the Palace for The Woman in White and do refurbishments and he allowed Cameron to take the lease on the Queens and Gielgud early in exchange for getting the Palace back. |
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Post by daisy24601 on Jan 24, 2018 15:33:04 GMT
I went last night and from the look of the theatre on a Tuesday night in January the ticket sales are doing just fine. I could hardly see an empty seat.
David Thaxton: great voice, great acting, Javert's Suicide and The Confrontation were particularly good for me. But I felt something was missing in terms of his authority and stage presence. Maybe it's because he has a slim build, whereas some Javerts are quite broad which makes them seem more menacing. I'd be interested to hear what other people think.
There were a few understudies on last night, Katie Kerr as Mrs T, she was brilliant, she got a lot of laughs. Catherine Hannay was probably the best Cosette I've ever seen which is saying something because I usually find Cosette so dull, she's so wet. Catherine actually gave her some personality and for once I enjoyed watching her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 15:47:14 GMT
and Nick Jonas (not good) Oh I rather liked Nick Jonas. I liked the way that every now and again he was able to act and sing and walk at the same time. It was like Russian Roulette, you just never knew when you'd get them all at once. |
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