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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 9:31:43 GMT
Personally, I think if any show has a younger and older of the same character, the performers need to be of same race. It just doesn't make logical sense. I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but not the ability of a human to change race. Just cast people of the same race, surely it's not that difficult. Really? Is this to do with suspended disbelief or something else? [/quote] Excuse me? Please don't insinuate what I think you're trying to. There's only so much I believe an audience member, especially a young child, can suspend disbelief for. I am not going to go into massive detail here because after all, this is a Les Mis thread. We should be casting people of all different ethnicities (unless the race of a character is integral to the role) but personally, I think its only logical to put a younger and an older of the same race on for a performance. If there's a black older on for that performance, make sure that there's a black younger on for that performance. Before the question of what if one of them is off sick comes up, then the producers need to be smart and cast enough people in order cover this. Producers are stingy sometimes. This then causes a mismatched cast like we saw happen at Frozen the other night. What I'm trying to say is, it's not hard to make this happen. It's a easy thing to get right that has a significant effect on the overall visuals of a show. Anyway, this isn't the place to go into detail about this... Do you hear the people sing? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 9:38:36 GMT
This is absolutely spot on about performers, could not have said it better myself. Personally, I think if any show has a younger and older of the same character, the performers need to be of same race. It just doesn't make logical sense. I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but not the ability of a human to change race. Just cast people of the same race, surely it's not that difficult. But if you can suspend disbelief enough to accept that three hours of sung through coincidences & mistaken identities is real, why is an actors fluid race such a jarring experience? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. I am talking about the race of a character, not an actor. But let's be clear, it's not possible for a human to change race. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 9:39:45 GMT
I think it depends on the show and the story. For example it doesn't matter in Frozen if younger and older else and Anna are different races as its clear who they are.
Les mis is a bit different, especially as for some reason Cameron has decided to make the story harder to follow (no more dates or locations so no idea of time passing). It can work for cossette as she is quite a big character with a lot of stage time so you understand the young child in the wood who is adopted by valjean is then the daughter as an adult. However eponine as a child is barely mentioned. Yes the name eponine is said but it's so quick and not always audible you can (and people do) easily miss that she is the same girl that later sings on my own and that she and cossette grew up together.
When you know a show so well its easy to forget how people come to it feel when it's fresh.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 30, 2021 9:58:19 GMT
Personally, I think if any show has a younger and older of the same character, the performers need to be of same race. It just doesn't make logical sense. I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but not the ability of a human to change race. Just cast people of the same race, surely it's not that difficult. Really? Is this to do with suspended disbelief or something else? Excuse me? Please don't insinuate what I think you're trying to. There's only so much I believe an audience member, especially a young child, can suspend disbelief for. I am not going to go into massive detail here because after all, this is a Les Mis thread. We should be casting people of all different ethnicities (unless the race of a character is integral to the role) but personally, I think its only logical to put a younger and an older of the same race on for a performance. If there's a black older on for that performance, make sure that there's a black younger on for that performance. Before the question of what if one of them is off sick comes up, then the producers need to be smart and cast enough people in order cover this. Producers are stingy sometimes. This then causes a mismatched cast like we saw happen at Frozen the other night. What I'm trying to say is, it's not hard to make this happen. It's a easy thing to get right that has a significant effect on the overall visuals of a show. Anyway, this isn't the place to go into detail about this... Do you hear the people sing?[/quote] The overall visuals of the show? These are people you are talking about not flats and props |
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Post by danb on Aug 30, 2021 11:32:09 GMT
I was literally saying that it is a piece of fiction so it shouldn’t matter. Yes it would be easier to follow if little girl Eponine was black to match grown up Eponine. But it really doesn’t matter to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 13:43:31 GMT
I was literally saying that it is a piece of fiction so it shouldn’t matter. Yes it would be easier to follow if little girl Eponine was black to match grown up Eponine. But it really doesn’t matter to me. That's awesome if it doesn't matter to you. But it should! Not enough people care about the details anymore which is why I feel theatre is slowly getting worse. I think we will continue to disagree on the matter, so let's leave it here. |
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Post by inthenose on Aug 31, 2021 5:00:53 GMT
Post removed as no longer relevant.
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Post by danb on Aug 31, 2021 5:57:58 GMT
In fairness, Dan, we must be very careful what we say on internet forums - even when a subject touches a nerve and feelings are running high. Libel is still libel and if the person you're implying - frankly without any evidence - to be an open racist were to make DMCA takedowns or seek relief from the courts, it could put both this cherished website and yourself personally in a spot of bother. Just something to consider. But that isn’t really what I’m saying at all. People struggle to process their feelings on subjects like this, and just like Nellie in South Pacific, have no idea that what they are feeling is actually diluted xenophobia or racism. It’s a struggle to understand the unknown, to process new experiences, a struggle to understand why that persons life is not the same as my life, maybe even an entitlement to not have to think too hard where art is concerned. I will delete my post if you think it is dangerous but I certainly think that the discussion should stay. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 31, 2021 7:18:55 GMT
I didn’t see the post but thanks for removing it.
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Post by matilda1 on Sept 16, 2021 8:33:03 GMT
Hi,
Does anybody know who are the Covers/Understudies for the Principal roles?
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Post by alison on Sept 16, 2021 18:43:27 GMT
I assume that those who have just been in the concert run will keep their same covers, so ...
Valjean: Luke McCall
Fantine: Jessica Joslin
Marius: Danny Colligan
Eponine: Jessie Hart
Enjolras: Leo Miles, Samuel Wyn-Morris
Thenardier: Matt Dempsey
I'm fairly sure that I've heard that Richard Carson will be covering Javert again, and I think Michael Kholwadia (new Jean Prouvaire) is the other Marius cover. As for the rest (all of them crooks) ... who knows. I'd put money on Phoebe Williams being a Cosette cover though, since her bio says she was Laurey in Oklahoma.
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Post by matilda1 on Sept 16, 2021 21:33:24 GMT
Yes, PW has a look of Cosette.
Also Mared Williams, previously covered Eponine, and has a fantastic voice. Check out her On my own on YouTube.
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Post by LaLuPone on Sept 16, 2021 23:08:23 GMT
Kelly Agbowu is cover Madame Thenardier I’m pretty sure, she’ll be a treat when she’s on because her comic timing in Waitress was impeccable. She made the small role of Nurse Norma one of the highlights of the show in the original London cast.
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Post by showtoones on Sept 17, 2021 2:40:43 GMT
I assume that those who have just been in the concert run will keep their same covers, so ... Valjean: Luke McCall Fantine: Jessica Joslin Marius: Danny Colligan Eponine: Jessie Hart Enjolras: Leo Miles, Samuel Wyn-Morris Thenardier: Matt Dempsey I'm fairly sure that I've heard that Richard Carson will be covering Javert again, and I think Michael Kholwadia (new Jean Prouvaire) is the other Marius cover. As for the rest (all of them crooks) ... who knows. I'd put money on Phoebe Williams being a Cosette cover though, since her bio says she was Laurey in Oklahoma. I saw Richard Carson as Chris in Miss Saigon the second year at the Prince Edward and he was excellent. Could def see him as a great Javert |
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Post by alison on Sept 17, 2021 6:15:49 GMT
Kelly Agbowu is cover Madame Thenardier I’m pretty sure, she’ll be a treat when she’s on because her comic timing in Waitress was impeccable. She made the small role of Nurse Norma one of the highlights of the show in the original London cast. Oops - I forgot about Kelly. She should have been on my list of people staying from the concert, definitely. I’m still sad she didn’t get to go on in the concert run when it was easier to get more reasonably priced decent seats. |
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Post by matilda1 on Sept 19, 2021 8:33:26 GMT
Did anyone see the performance at West End Live?
Not great tbh, lots of sound issues and problems with mics. They brought back Shan Ali and Rachelle Ann Go to do the IDAD and OMO mash up.
Not sure about the nee Fantine, but I could be too harsh, due to the sound problems.
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Post by matilda1 on Sept 19, 2021 8:34:36 GMT
Shan Ako, autocorrect!
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Post by jamie2c on Sept 19, 2021 22:06:48 GMT
West-End-Live sound is often variable. Many productions reverted to using hand held microphones.
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Post by inthenose on Sept 19, 2021 23:04:25 GMT
West End Live is the one and only time to show off all those vocal acrobatics in LM.
It's a singular chance to showcase your abilities in front of a massive audience - but more importantly - to sell the show. Which is why the performers are there.
Now is the time to act completely out of character and "show off", it's certainly not the sort of performance you'd ever give in front of a paying audience. You would be in character.
West End Live is not meant for those old snobs who would like to *FEEL* anything. Not for those who care about the integrity of this show.
It's about the "new generation of fans".
On My Own: A Fan's Perspective
"She is helpless. God I wish someone would love and care for Eponine, as her useless Dad and especially brutal Mum doesn't!! I want to protect her. I hope she ends up happy with the guy she loves."
Or
"Wow!!! My favourite actress Generic Mc-Guildhall Mountseduation has such an incredible voice!!! I love those grace-notes she throws in. Her vocals are sooo much better than those old boomers who actually know something about acting and characterisation. She's like twice as loud and BELTS the score as written HALF as much. She's AMAZZZZING. #definitive"
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Post by Dawnstar on Sept 20, 2021 12:58:25 GMT
"Wow!!! My favourite actress Generic Mc-Guildhall Mountseduation has such an incredible voice!!! I love those grace-notes she throws in. Her vocals are sooo much better than those old boomers who actually know something about acting and characterisation. She's like twice as loud and BELTS the score as written HALF as much. She's AMAZZZZING. #definitive" I doubt that sort of fan would know or use the expression "grace-notes"! |
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Post by shady23 on Sept 25, 2021 22:46:00 GMT
Curtain call video from opening night tonight
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Post by fiyerorocher on Sept 25, 2021 22:47:48 GMT
So they've been playing around with Thenardier's part in the wedding where he sings ‘here comes a prince, there goes a Jew, this one’s a queer, but what can you do’ for a while now. During the concert performances the last line became ‘this one’s a queer, and I might be too.’ Then earlier this year when Palestine was in the news a lot, it became ‘here comes a prince, so parvenu, this one’s a queer, but what can you do.’ Tonight, with the reopened fully staged production, it was, as far as I could make out, ‘here comes a prince, he’s nouveau riche, this one looks queer, I bet he likes quiche.’ And just WHAT? Why quiche? What on earth is going on here. And princes are born rich, they can’t be new money (they also can't be parvenu either). It doesn’t scan with the music and it sounds like it was completed via madlib sheet. Please god, Cameron, change it to something that at least makes sense.
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Post by matilda1 on Sept 25, 2021 22:53:18 GMT
Any thoughts on opening night?
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Post by Dr Tom on Sept 25, 2021 23:02:25 GMT
Tonight, with the reopened fully staged production, it was, as far as I could make out, ‘here comes a prince, he’s nouveau riche, this one looks queer, I bet he likes quiche.’ And just WHAT? Why quiche? What on earth is going on here. That was the line when I saw it in the concert production a few weeks ago. It seemed odd to me then, but I did a search and found out they've been using the quiche line for a few years now. I've still no recollection of ever hearing it before, so I presume they must cycle the lines around in some manner. |
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Post by inthenose on Sept 25, 2021 23:07:58 GMT
I quite like the original lyric, sums up Thenardier pretty well I think! The concert one isn't an improvement really and doesn't make sense. But those new efforts are just appalling!
You know when they change lyrics; why do they feel they have to keep part of the original lyric in instead of writing a new couplet which fits better? It seems like forcing square pegs into round holes. Something tells me it's to avoid having to give a writing credit, perhaps?
"Ain't it a laugh, ain't it a treat, hob-nobbing here among the elite. Belles of the ball, dapper gents too, filchin' their gauds, they don't have a clue".
I won't give up the day job but I prefer that 30 second effort to a line about quiche! I didn't even know quiche had a sexual identity, I thought it was - you know - quiche. I do know flan is pie-curious.
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