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Post by Rory on Oct 15, 2018 20:00:09 GMT
☝️To clarify, they were referring to the Martin McDonagh, not our @ryan's posts on 'ere!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 20:31:19 GMT
Blimey, someone on Twitter has referred to this as disgusting, vile filth! Oooh smashing. That's me booked then! ☝️To clarify, they were referring to the Martin McDonagh, not our @ryan 's posts on 'ere! My filth is never vile. |
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525 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Oct 15, 2018 20:52:59 GMT
"London writer" is a bit off the mark... Born and brought up in London, lives in London = London writer. Thought it implied his plays were London centric rather than just the arbitrary fact that he lives in London so therefore shouldn't write about certain things. |
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Oct 15, 2018 20:54:15 GMT
Blimey, someone on Twitter has referred to this as disgusting, vile filth! She's also posted on Time Out, saying the Royal Court rejected it - I'm not surprised, if true. To be fair on the audience, many seemed to be sitting there gobsmacked like after the Springtime for Hitler number rather than laughing, and on the first night when I saw it, the lights went up quickly after just one round of applause. |
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Post by crowblack on Oct 15, 2018 21:10:18 GMT
arbitrary fact that he lives in London so therefore shouldn't write about certain things. He is a middle aged white male Londoner working in the arts and Hollywood. I don't think people "shouldn't write about certain things" but it's HOW they write about them that's the issue here. If you see the play I think you'll see what I mean - arguing about it when you haven't is a bit pointless. For the record, I bought tickets for this play the day they came out. I have enjoyed McDonagh's previous work and was really looking forward to this. It sounded potentially great. It even has Tom Waits in it (not live, obvs). But - argh. |
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Post by wiggymess on Oct 15, 2018 23:14:47 GMT
arbitrary fact that he lives in London so therefore shouldn't write about certain things. He is a middle aged white male Londoner working in the arts and Hollywood. I don't think people "shouldn't write about certain things" but it's HOW they write about them that's the issue here. If you see the play I think you'll see what I mean - arguing about it when you haven't is a bit pointless. For the record, I bought tickets for this play the day they came out. I have enjoyed McDonagh's previous work and was really looking forward to this. It sounded potentially great. It even has Tom Waits in it (not live, obvs). But - argh. I'm still none the wiser what him being from London has to do with any of that, but ok. |
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Post by crowblack on Oct 16, 2018 8:34:43 GMT
I'm still none the wiser what him being from London has to do with any of that, but ok. There's a expression used by Mark Kermode about storylines dealing with particular issues - have they earned it? Have they earned the pass to tackle something in the way that they do at this point in a drama. Generally, now, it's considered, at best, a form of tourism if someone from a socially privileged group decides to tell a story focusing on those who aren't, particularly at a time when people - including writers - from those marginalised groups are demanding the right to speak for themselves. In this case, the treatment is particularly crass - it's like something from a 70s or 80s comedian. I don't think McDonagh is racist, but he is very insensitive and shallow here, and judging by Twitter reactions - scathing last night - this may be a bit of a Morrissey moment for his fans, in which I include myself. This play foregrounds all of the issues I have had with his previous work without the quality of writing or wit to redeem it. |
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525 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Oct 16, 2018 8:49:01 GMT
I'm still none the wiser what him being from London has to do with any of that, but ok. There's a expression used by Mark Kermode about storylines dealing with particular issues - have they earned it? Have they earned the pass to tackle something in the way that they do at this point in a drama. Generally, now, it's considered, at best, a form of tourism if someone from a socially privileged group decides to tell a story focusing on those who aren't, particularly at a time when people - including writers - from those marginalised groups are demanding the right to speak for themselves. In this case, the treatment is particularly crass - it's like something from a 70s or 80s comedian. I don't think McDonagh is racist, but he is very insensitive and shallow here, and judging by Twitter reactions - scathing last night - this may be a bit of a Morrissey moment for his fans, in which I include myself. This play foregrounds all of the issues I have had with his previous work without the quality of writing or wit to redeem it. Well put and I don't disagree, because I haven't seen the play and I'm not trying to stick up for Martin M here (although as I've said I think some criticism of 3 Billboards was knee-jerk and misplaced). But I still, after all that, don't understand what him being from London has to do with it, I think it's an important debate to be had, but I don't think it helps to chuck in arbitrary things like that. |
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Post by crowblack on Oct 16, 2018 9:47:28 GMT
him being from London has to do with it I don't know where you are from, but the worldview and opportunities of someone from London are very different from someone who grew up or lives outside it. In the context of this play - and in the place where it is being staged - as with the criticism levelled at him for his depiction of rural Ireland or the US, it's something that feels relevant. |
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525 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Oct 16, 2018 10:14:53 GMT
him being from London has to do with it I don't know where you are from, but the worldview and opportunities of someone from London are very different from someone who grew up or lives outside it. In the context of this play - and in the place where it is being staged - as with the criticism levelled at him for his depiction of rural Ireland or the US, it's something that feels relevant. I'm not from, nor have ever lived in the capital. I'm from somewhere pretty different to London. Looks like we will have to disagree on this one I'm afraid, I think the 'London' criticism is a little too 'all encompassing' when used in this way, because of the mixture of people who would consider themselves Londoners, and I think it plays into a slightly narrow outside view of what a Londoner is. I would understand it holding weight as a criticism if he was writing plays specifically and exclusively about middle-class London life, but he actively isn't, and I really wouldn't want him to. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the play - understand from other posts you have to travel far to visit London which must make the disappointment worse. I was very tempted to book for this but held off and at the moment I'm fairly glad I did. |
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Post by crowblack on Oct 16, 2018 11:00:22 GMT
plays into a slightly narrow outside view of what a Londoner is. I lived in London full time for 15 years, studied there, worked there, I have close family there, many friends there etc.... Anyway, it'll be interesting to see the reviews. |
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1,103 posts
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Post by mallardo on Oct 16, 2018 11:47:33 GMT
him being from London has to do with it I don't know where you are from, but the worldview and opportunities of someone from London are very different from someone who grew up or lives outside it. In the context of this play - and in the place where it is being staged - as with the criticism levelled at him for his depiction of rural Ireland or the US, it's something that feels relevant.
I can't speak for rural Ireland but McDonagh's depiction of the US (specifically Missouri) in Three Billboards was right on the money.
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Post by harry on Oct 16, 2018 18:44:43 GMT
I saw this last night (preview 3).My overriding thought is that it felt very preview-y, timing a bit off in places, too-slow and noisy set changes, slightly tentative and under-powered performances. But I can also see that a lot of that may well tweak up and this could be a hit by the time the reviewers are in. What I'm interested in is people's objection to the content. Minor spoilers... {Spoiler}{Spoiler - click to view}
As I see it the play is about a character who is specifically black, of very small stature, and missing a foot. Many of the other characters make derogatory comments towards her because of these things, but the play seems very clear that they are in the wrong and that she is ultimately the heroine and can outsmart them all despite them thinking they are superior. I completely understand that from a white able bodied person's perspective I'm not really in a position to comment, but I'm genuinely (i.e. not just stirring the pot) interested to hear what people found offensive, and hopefully understand the strong negative reaction from some quarters. |
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Post by foxa on Oct 16, 2018 19:22:44 GMT
I notice some folks on twitter are describing this as 'bonkers!' - which seems to be a kind code for a stinker ('Pity' was also 'bonkers!')
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 19:35:19 GMT
Bonkers means mad, surely?
There’s a problem with discussions about theatre, at least early in a run. When few people have seen something then there isn’t much of a knowledgeable discussion to be had. Sadly, I booked for this in January, so I wont get to make a meaningful contribution until it’s nearly over.
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Post by paddy72 on Oct 16, 2018 19:56:20 GMT
Saw this last night and ‘harry’ is right. It isn’t ready yet. Which is not to say it won’t be great but my advice is to wait a bit before seeing. Jim Broadbent is really funny and the only one I thought that was on point. Regardless, it is an odd piece of work. Very short, ( it says 1 hour 30 in the programme but I reckon we were done by 1 hour 15) and I think it could really be made much darker and given more meaning with some extra work on the writing. I also kept thinking that it would have worked better in an older house. Suspension of both rational and belief are crucial to getting what’s going on and so a nice clean anodyne auditorium didn’t help. I wouldn’ want to bet on which way the critics will go it. Positive I hope.
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Oct 16, 2018 20:42:31 GMT
Sounds like they may have cut a fair bit already - it was a few mins late starting on Friday but I think it still ran over 1hr30. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 21:37:03 GMT
Yes, and they're generally handled in a comic, flippant way in a work by a white able-bodied male London writer, which is what I think some (including me) will have issues with. And I'm sorry if that makes me sound po-faced and joyless because I'm not - I love dark comedy but I think this sort of thing has to be brilliant and come from some sort of place of understanding and experience for the writer to 'earn' it Oh dear, this is putting me off massively. After the way he handled race (badly) in the dreadful Three Billboards I am wondering if I should bother. He made some pretty dire racist jokes in Hangmen too. The only jokes in that play that were met with silence, which makes me wonder why he didn't take them out. He got into a lot of trouble in the States around racism. I wish he'd leave the issue alone. |
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Post by eatbigsea on Oct 16, 2018 22:22:24 GMT
Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I’m afraid it reminded me of Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction, but without any verve or energy. {Spoiler - click to view}
I suspect the “Pygmy in a box” is the new “dead n-word storage.” It was controversial in 1994, and tying it superficially to the Belgian Congo in 2018 isn’t going to make it any more palatable. {Spoiler - click to view}
Just because the woman in the box is clever (and might ultimately win, in some hypothetical scenario that doesn’t make any sense) really doesn’t make this acceptable. The scenes in London were marginally preferable, but only because {Spoiler - click to view}
the thing in the cupboard was literally a skeleton and the characters’ interaction was more or less among equals. I see what he was trying to do, but it wasn’t sophisticated or (in my opinion) very intellectually interesting. I may be too North American to get this, but I can pretty much promise that it will never, ever transfer to New York in its current form. |
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3,040 posts
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Post by crowblack on Oct 16, 2018 23:00:44 GMT
Does anybody know what the view is like from the front row for this production? Or how high the stage is? If you look up the hashtag #averyveryverydarkmatter on Instagram, someone has posted a photo of the curtain call showing the set and stage etc. |
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Post by partytentdown on Oct 17, 2018 7:28:46 GMT
What the hell did I just watch
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 7:59:43 GMT
More than ever, I'm congratulating myself for booking this for the Friday before Christmas - it sounds like the most unfestive thing ever, which is exactly what I was looking for!
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Post by Rory on Oct 17, 2018 8:19:02 GMT
Hmm, what to do, to see this or The Wild Duck?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 8:38:08 GMT
I know Robert Icke can be quite polarising, as can Ibsen, but if you want something that's more likely to be a great piece of theatre, I think The Wild Duck is a safer option. But then if you've never seen Jim Broadbent on stage and would like to, or would like to be certain of getting home at a reasonable hour, then A Very Very Very Dark Matter isn't necessarily the worst call. (Full disclosure, I have seen neither production yet, but I'm familiar with the creatives' work for both and can already see which one is more likely to make me extremely cross.) Also if it helps, I'm pretty sure The Wild Duck has an actual live duck in it. If, y'know, you like farmyard animals (which I personally REALLY REALLY DO).
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Post by Boob on Oct 17, 2018 21:06:13 GMT
I am giving you all the opportunity to reclaim 90 minutes (yes, back to 1 hr 30 mins tonight) of your lives and a great deal of sanity by suggesting you DO NOT BOOK/RETURN YOUR TICKETS.
Just... WTF?!?
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