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Post by profquatermass on Dec 29, 2017 11:33:31 GMT
Depends what they're writing though. So many new plays are two- to four-handers, but it would be very boring for the future of theatre if that's where we stuck. And a two- to four-hander will fit in just about anywhere, but it's nice to know we have the NT for plays that would be simply too big for the Bush or Royal Court or Hampstead. Indeed but you don't expect the main stage of the Olivier to be given over to a new play by a new writer with a cast of dozens. Oh wait, it was called St George and the Dragon and we all know how well that went... |
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Post by stevemar on Dec 29, 2017 11:43:03 GMT
At the risk of changing the direction of the thread, other than "go now" and "get some decent new writers", what notes would you give Mr Norris to improve his performance in 2018?
It seems that the main issues have been on the Olivier Stage - based on feedback here and the critics, I made the unprecedented move of exchanging tickets for Common, Salome and St George. So, I can't comment specifically on those shows. There have been some notable successes - Follies, Angels in America, (great new writing with) Beginning, and to a lesser extent Mosquitoes and Consent, but I agree three apparent duds in a row leaves Mr Norris exposed. As a stopgap perhaps he could bring back his excellent adaptation of Festen from the Almeida?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 11:54:04 GMT
I have seen every single show at the NT Since 2004 or so And many prior to this Surely you mean you've seen half of every single show at the Nash . . ?  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:01:51 GMT
Point of Information - Norris is the first non-Oxbridge AD in over forty years (non-Cambridge in fact). A certain type of person doesn't like that sort of thing, lowers the tone of the place. EDIT: Forum was dire, just appalling, Ed Hall screwed up Once in a Lifetime in the Olivier as well. My Fair Lady was solid but no greater than scores of West End musicals then and since, His Dark Materials was a stunning design in search of a script that stopped to think rather than just plot, plot, plot. Measure for Measure wasn't Complicite at their best, for that look to Mnemonic, Diappearing Number, Master & Margarita etc. Poor taste overall, only War Horse is worthy of being in a best of list over that period of time. Are you suggesting that people don’t like Norris because he’s non-Oxbridge? I think that’s a bit of a stretch, given that the whole conversation has been about how weak his programme is. Bit of a dig at Parsley, which he responded to as expected! On 'Forum' vs Norris - there is measurable success and there is opinion; your opinion of Norris appears not to be backed up by audience numbers across the building and its finances (facts), my opinion of Forum is not backed up by a number of critics (other people's opinions). Having different opinions is one thing, creating alternative facts is another. I seem to recall that De Jongh was, among some others, of the same opinion as me but that's all long past now. Sam Kelly was the only one who I thought really got the old music hall/vaudeville style. If people saw the Nathan Lane revival they would have see the difference, delirium as opposed to 'modified rapture'. It hadn't been seen in London for twenty years or so though. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:04:56 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:12:20 GMT
At the risk of changing the direction of the thread, other than "go now" and "get some decent new writers", what notes would you give Mr Norris to improve his performance in 2018? It seems that the main issues have been on the Olivier Stage - based on feedback here and the critics, I made the unprecedented move of exchanging tickets for Common, Salome and St George. So, I can't comment specifically on those shows. There have been some notable successes - Follies, Angels in America, (great new writing with) Beginning, and to a lesser extent Mosquitoes and Consent, but I agree three apparent duds in a row leaves Mr Norris exposed. As a stopgap perhaps he could bring back his excellent adaptation of Festen from the Almeida? Continue what I see to be an excellent development in bringing in productions from regional theatres. I'd advise him to not flood the Olivier with revivals and adaptations but this very argument may already have stymied that. On an organisational level I'd suggest that he revamps the dramaturgy department, they don't seem to have done their job well assisting the writers and directors in the Olivier (maybe because it's been so long that nobody is around who can remember what a successful new play there needs). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:17:17 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? More hotties. With or without nudity but preferably with. Tom Bateman. More of those jolly restoration comedies. More musicals with tap routines and kick lines. And staircases. A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum. More Jonny Bailey. More farces. 'Whoops There Go My Bloomers', that sort of thing. More nudity. More Tom Bateman. More things with glitter cannons and things falling from the sky (except the roof of course). The Boy From Oz. Bring Back Jennifer Ehle. Marc Elliott. More plays about the gayers. And I'm still waiting on that Gigi transfer. That should be a good start. When I take over, Rufus is going to eat poop and collapse. Take that nemesis. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 12:28:03 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? Dominic Cooke in charge With close help From Katie Mitchell Natalie Abrahami Indu Rubasingham Martin Crimp Paulette Randall Kathy Burke And occasional guest input from Richard Jones Trevor Nunn Phyllida Lloyd Michael Grandage Deborah Warner Julie Taymor Robert Lepage Anna D Shapiro |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 13:50:48 GMT
Honest question echoing that of stevemar above- what DOES Rufus need to do? Or which AD does he need to emulate? So far there’s a lot of “he’s rubbish” and not a lot of “what I’d like to see is” Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on his tenure thus far- other than it’s too soon to make a final judgment. But those who don’t like what he’s done who or what would you put in it’s place? Dominic Cooke in charge With close help From Katie Mitchell Natalie Abrahami Indu Rubasingham Martin Crimp Paulette Randall Kathy Burke And occasional guest input from Richard Jones Trevor Nunn Phyllida Lloyd Michael Grandage Deborah Warner Julie Taymor Robert Lepage Anna D Shapiro I may be slightly off but (other than Abrahami) this is a list of directors (and Martin Crimp) all over the age of 50. There must surely be some younger directors that deserve a call-up under the Parsley regime; I think there'd be some back-biting if not... |
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Post by Jon on Dec 29, 2017 14:02:46 GMT
I suspect The Ryan regime would end in multiple complaints and restraining orders from having to perform nude on or off stage..... and not doing any new work or series or revivals of classics that aren’t comedies wouldn’t be good either
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 14:21:32 GMT
I think Norris should get some top notch dramaturgs on board because I perceive a crisis in this area and I see it in every single theatre I have visited this year. Theatre auteurs like Icke are wonderful but in my mind the play’s the thing and there needs to be an investment in the development of writers who can fill the larger spaces. It was a good call to commission St George and Common but the lack of dramaturgical development is evident in both plays.
Jack Bradley ran the literary dept for a while in Hytner’s “regime” and he was one of the best. Some writers don’t need that input so much because of their experience. I went to a talk years ago where Bradley interviewed Michael Frayn when Copenhagen was on and he revealed that Frayn’s work required very little dramaturgical intervention. Frayn Then disclosed that was because his wife (a literary heavyweight herself) was his first reader and gave him feedback. So, in fact all writers - no matter their accomplishment - need input while developing their work.
Along with the revivals and classics a national theatre should give writers the opportunity to engage with the important topics of their time. I am keen on new writing because I believe the role of Theatre is to hold a mirror up to life. We might not like what we see reflected there but it’s essential that we look.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 14:42:39 GMT
There seems to be general agreement that the Dorfman has now hit its stride, with a widely lauded 2017/18 programme {Consent, Barber Shop Chronicles, Mosquitoes, Beginning) and the forthcoming rapid succession of the next five productions (John, The Great Wave, Nine Nights, An Octoroon, Hello I'm Darling).
The Lyttelton began 2017/18 with a hugely successful seven-month season - a last hurrah from the old regime (Angels in America), an incoming American hit transfer (Oslo), a returning success (Jane Eyre) - which gave the NT a much-needed breathing space to plan the current and forthcoming season of major new productions (Network, Pinocchio, Absolute Hell, Julie, The Lehman Trilogy, I'm Not Running).
Apart from the Travelex season of new work, the Olivier has Follies, Amadeus, Macbeth, Translations, Exit the King, Antony and Cleopatra.
Verdict: STRONG AND STABLE.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 14:56:10 GMT
I think Norris should get some top notch dramaturgs on board because I perceive a crisis in this area and I see it in every single theatre I have visited this year. Theatre auteurs like Icke are wonderful but in my mind the play’s the thing and there needs to be an investment in the development of writers who can fill the larger spaces. It was a good call to commission St George and Common but the lack of dramaturgical development is evident in both plays. Jack Bradley ran the literary dept for a while in Hytner’s “regime” and he was one of the best. Some writers don’t need that input so much because of their experience. I went to a talk years ago where Bradley interviewed Michael Frayn when Copenhagen was on and he revealed that Frayn’s work required very little dramaturgical intervention. Frayn Then disclosed that was because his wife (a literary heavyweight herself) was his first reader and gave him feedback. So, in fact all writers - no matter their accomplishment - need input while developing their work. Along with the revivals and classics a national theatre should give writers the opportunity to engage with the important topics of their time. I am keen on new writing because I believe the role of Theatre is to hold a mirror up to life. We might not like what we see reflected there but it’s essential that we look. I suspect that many (most?) don't actually register the importance of dramaturgy and, as a result, put blame on writers, directors, the bar staff etc. instead. The fact is that most will have been used to small spaces and small casts, just as writers will have been so the Dorfman and the Lyttelton are their home ground. Who is there who has experience shaping and guiding projects to completion on a massive stage though? There is this big gap, not helped by the gradual handing over of that space to musicals, pseudo-musicals, revivals and the odd literary adaptation. |
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Post by martin1965 on Dec 29, 2017 18:03:26 GMT
I suspect The Ryan regime would end in multiple complaints and restraining orders from having to perform nude on or off stage..... and not doing any new work or series or revivals of classics that aren’t comedies wouldn’t be good either Well certainly multiple somethings from Ryan! |
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Post by lynette on Dec 29, 2017 18:29:51 GMT
Cleo, you are right. You can have all the talented directors you like ( please not Katie Mitchell cos for me she can do no right) but without good plays they might as well go and make more dosh on adverts. No, what is needed is support for people who want to write plays and who are already writing: financial support for development, courses, workshops, mentoring and outreach visits to schools and colleges and unis. Then more studio shows, try outs and low key performances which again need some financial support as actors shouldn’t be asked to do stuff for nothing. And the NT should go and search for talent: visit colleges etc, rooms over pubs ( play that goes wrong ) and then people will approach the NT when they realise that support is available. Bring in the directors certainly ( not Katie Mitchell) but only when there is material, to direct. Create a busy channel of writing and development, a channel that people know about and want to be involved with. ( I think something like this might already exist but it is not wide reaching enough, is it.)
And yes, of course, Ryan, more nudity.
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Post by tributary on Dec 29, 2017 19:00:20 GMT
I think honestly what happens now is that the writers take the plays to the directors more than to the building. I suspect the reason the Almeida get the goodies is that they’ve got two directors the writers want. I agree with what’s being said re the quality of NT dramaturgy but the weakness is in their lack of director relationships. NT got Alan Bennett plays because he wanted Hytner as director, now he’ll go to the Bridge. Bartlett and Hickson and Anne Washburn stay loyal to the Almeida; I bet you Graham will now too. Alice Birch stays loyal to Katie Mitchell, home and abroad. Hangmen was supposed to be on at the NT, and they jumped ship to the Court, and now the new McDonagh has gone to the Bridge. It’s about directors, not buildings/resources.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 20:21:53 GMT
On another note: is it possible to change the title of this thread. I find the current one unnecessary and, while I am finding the posts interesting, I don’t like contributing to a troll’s vendetta.
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Post by lynette on Dec 29, 2017 21:47:11 GMT
On another note: is it possible to change the title of this thread. I find the current one unnecessary and, while I am finding the posts interesting, I don’t like contributing to a troll’s vendetta. I’ll see what I can do... |
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Post by tributary on Dec 29, 2017 22:02:41 GMT
On another note: is it possible to change the title of this thread. I find the current one unnecessary and, while I am finding the posts interesting, I don’t like contributing to a troll’s vendetta. Oh come on. The title fits the topic. Criticism isn’t trolling or a vendetta. Criticism of someone paid with taxpayers money at £250k a year certainly isn’t trolling or a vendetta. |
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Post by lynette on Dec 29, 2017 22:47:43 GMT
I changed it, tribs, because it opens the discussion up more but I think we can take criticism here...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 23:03:00 GMT
I like it, it makes it more discussion-y and less like we're all ghouls sitting around waiting for the Fates to cut RuNo's life-thread. Thanks, Lynette!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 23:03:43 GMT
The sun has come out.
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Post by foxa on Dec 29, 2017 23:09:18 GMT
I think it's better - less like entries in a slam book.
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Post by zahidf on Dec 29, 2017 23:19:28 GMT
Better topic title. No need to be nasty about Norris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 1:05:33 GMT
I may be wrong, but wasn't the thread title "Rufus Norris - How long?"?
Can't see what was wrong with that. It was just a question - one that could be answered with a ringing endorsement of Norris' tenure, and a desire for him to be in the job for the next fifteen years.
Am I wrong?
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