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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 11:45:08 GMT
Rarely will I book for a performer, but often for the show itself, the director and even the type of theatre it promises to be. Just yesterday a show at The Gate, which had passed me by, became a must see because I got a look at the script (Trust by Falk Richter, the script is very much in the open text format and I really want to see what the director does with it).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 11:55:47 GMT
Well I think I look forward to what's on at the Nash more than any other theatre really. I'm more likely to book for stuff that I don't know anything about there than at other theatres. I mean, obviously I book loads of stuff at the Nash (and elsewhere) that I know nothing about and has no stars - but it's more because it sounds interesting/intriguing than because I get breathlessly excited about it. Cheap tickets help. I'll try most things for a tenner. I guess I'm just not that into a theatre's 'brand' - I've never booked everything a theatre is doing in a season just because it's doing it. I don't expect everything a particular theatre puts on to appeal to me. In fact, I'd argue that if everything the Nash did appealed to me - a middle-class white woman in her mid-30s - then it would be doing something wrong. Same- re: theatre brand. In fact (unpopular opinion alert for some here) I think there's something a bit strange about needing to compulsively see everything JUST because it's staged by a particular theatre. As Kathryn says, in fact if a theatre is programming every season with everything that appeals to me it's probably not doing a great job appealing broadly across everyone else. To qualify my above statement: I obviously don't JUST book for stars, like everyone I see a play description and think 'ooh well a play about video games and violence bet that'll be interesting' or whatever or 'Oh I don't know much about x historical period maybe that'll be worth seeing' I just think 'interested to see it' and genuine 'baited breath excitement' come with different things for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:15:27 GMT
I have a list of theatres I enjoy attending and I do intend to see everything at those theatres unless something specific about a production turns me off (maybe it sounds naff or it's a dodgy playwright or the tickets are overpriced or I'm on holiday), and that does include the National Theatre. I'll concede it's definitely more than a bit strange though, most people just don't go to the theatre that much. They have time to do fun things, like spontaneous trips away or luxurious dinners or watching Strictly or hanging with friends, or whatever the hell it is that people do on a Saturday that isn't "go to the theatre at least twice to see shows that have been booked months in advance". I could probably do with a less... *focused* cultural diet...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:19:53 GMT
That wasn't directed at you @baemax for the record, more a general comment at the erm tunnel vision of this thread that somehow we HAVE to WANT to book everything at the NT by some.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:22:22 GMT
I do think though, now you raise it that a lot of this thread neglects the 'normal' theatre goer, which by virtue or curse of being poor/far from London I'm probably closer to than a lot of people on here: the people who go to the theatre a LOT but no, don't go 2-4 times a week or more, simply because the logistics of their lives don't allow for it. I think the NT (and others) are serving those kinds of dedicated audiences alongside the more casual theatre-goers for that matter. As an aside of a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:23:56 GMT
Oh, I didn't take it as meaning me specifically, but I definitely suffer from the tunnel vision myself. I actually made the decision a few months back that I wasn't going to go to the Dorfman anymore because it's such a miserable little hole, but I've still been suckered in by Barber Shop Chronicles and Mosquitoes, and I don't see me making much of an effort to skip Annie Baker's John either when it comes up. Maybe it just looks less like the tunnel vision because I'm not making such a point of going to literally everything primarily so I can come back here and whine about Rufus Norris...?  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:28:15 GMT
hahaha perhaps THAT'S what it is?! Perhaps that's where you're going right...or wrong? (as an aside interestingly I seem to have made an unconscious decision not to go into the Dorfman since it's been the Dorfman) I think it's logical we all have certain theatres on our list of 'will probably be booking a lot there' each time a season comes out but logistics dictate what 'a lot' means for anyone. Equally there's scope for a perfectly irrational aversion to a theatre based on previous experience- be that an uncomfortable seat or an irrational aversion to the current AD |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 12:31:26 GMT
One of the advantages of living away from London is not being swamped by over-supply of affordable, accessible theatre. I'm sure I've attended a much more diverse range of performances than I would've if I'd been based in London, where I'd probably have been sucked into an eternal whirlpool of "new writing."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 14:09:37 GMT
Hey kids, the National Theatre has published it's annual report. Lets see how the failing organisation is getting on under its terrible artistic director review.nationaltheatre.org.uk/#2017/overview/2"The theatre was 93% full - a 12 year high" "The theatre goes into 2017/18 in good health and with increased reserves that are getting closer to our target of three months' running costs" against a background of a "real terms cut to our Arts Council grant of 24%" etc Guess he's doing OK then. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 14:15:19 GMT
Hey kids, the National Theatre has published it's annual report. Lets see how the failing organisation is getting on under its terrible artistic director review.nationaltheatre.org.uk/#2017/overview/2"The theatre was 93% full - a 12 year high""The theatre goes into 2017/18 in good health and with increased reserves that are getting closer to our target of three months' running costs" against a background of a "real terms cut to our Arts Council grant of 24%" etc Guess he's doing OK then. I don't have an axe to grind but I'm always really suspicious of this; bums on seats don't mean people have paid for those seats. I could have seen a lot of the last year's NT output for free through various papering agencies. Which is not to say that they haven't also had big successes as well, of course. And the fact that the cafes and pubs are now much nicer must help with revenue. |
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Post by dani on Oct 11, 2017 14:39:46 GMT
Hey kids, the National Theatre has published it's annual report. Lets see how the failing organisation is getting on under its terrible artistic director review.nationaltheatre.org.uk/#2017/overview/2"The theatre was 93% full - a 12 year high" "The theatre goes into 2017/18 in good health and with increased reserves that are getting closer to our target of three months' running costs" against a background of a "real terms cut to our Arts Council grant of 24%" etc Guess he's doing OK then. Thank you for drawing attention to this. I see there is £7.7 million in the expenditures for "depreciation". Not being well versed in these things, I don't know what it is that has depreciated - not premises, I see, as these are a separate entry in the expenditures. Is this a fall in the value of things such as costumes and machinery? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 14:43:53 GMT
Good question! Could be depreciation of the premises as I would think the entry in expenditures is for running costs of the building. Also as you say, costumes and machinery, also potentially sets etc - they have to pay for them, then they are dismantled at the end of a production so presumably lose a lot of value.
Particularly could be the West End sets for War Horse & Curious Incident?
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Post by lynette on Oct 11, 2017 14:46:08 GMT
Monarch planes were full weren’t they? Ryanair planes are always full, no? Just pointing out that usage isn’t everything.
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Post by Jan on Oct 11, 2017 14:55:39 GMT
Monarch planes were full weren’t they? Ryanair planes are always full, no? Just pointing out that usage isn’t everything. In the History of the NT book for every production they’d put on up to the end of Hytners regime they quote both % capacity based on filling seats and % economic capacity which accounts for papering and so on, obviously those numbers are different, often strikingly so. If you dig into the report you’ll see the seat capacity was 93% and the economic capacity was 75% which is quite good, just off the top of my head I think breakeven is around 70%. The figures relate to a period ending March 28th 2017 and include a full years revenue from West End productions of War Horse and Curious Incident. Obviously they also exclude the recent run of Olivier flops. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 15:11:20 GMT
More figures
"In 2016-17 we generated £104.7M 83% of which we generated ourselves through ticket sales, fundraising and commercial activity"
Which is down from Hytner's last year (£117M) but that seemed an unusually successful year (previous year was £99M)
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Post by zahidf on Oct 11, 2017 15:18:14 GMT
Monarch planes were full weren’t they? Ryanair planes are always full, no? Just pointing out that usage isn’t everything. In the History of the NT book for every production they’d put on up to the end of Hytners regime they quote both % capacity based on filling seats and % economic capacity which accounts for papering and so on, obviously those numbers are different, often strikingly so. If you dig into the report you’ll see the seat capacity was 93% and the economic capacity was 75% which is quite good, just off the top of my head I think breakeven is around 70%. The figures relate to a period ending March 28th 2017 and include a full years revenue from West End productions of War Horse and Curious Incident. Obviously they also exclude the recent run of Olivier flops. Would exclude Angels in America and Follies though as well
I think next year's will be worse based on the run of Olivier flops, but Network and Pinnochio will boost those up as well
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 15:31:28 GMT
So, in a manner of 'outing' myself until fairly recently I used to asses reports on finances to the Arts Council for a living (hey it's a dirty job and all...) So while this is obviously an edited highlight version of that, and slightly different given it's England and I worked for Wales...all told that's a report that would get a strong 'Tick' and a 'nothing to worry about carry on' type response (given we/they respond and personally work with Portfolio clients or whatever they call them at ACE)
Also an 83% self-generated income is none to bloody shabby. There are organisations getting far more public money for far more a percentage of their income. Also if I was looking at this the fact a big chunk of their money actually goes on production is another sign they're using resources well (again many a company don't)
Depreciation is related to assets, so most likely the buildings or anything else they outright own, which naturally devaules over time but isn't taken into account in terms of the net income etc. So my main guess there is the physical spaces and any particularly valuable kit they have?
Even though the 93% isn't a true picture (comps, press tickets etc) the 75% is a decent outing for a venue like this, and as above, they'd have comfortably broken even I'd guess (not knowing their personal figures but at an educated guess). So again none to shabby on ticket sales.
My memory of what is in that season isn't great but I'd wager that Angels and Follies will mostly balance out the flops, if there's nothing too disastrous in the future. Also War Horse and Curious on tour will probably more than balance out some less great sales for some of Jane Eyre's stops.
Wow I HATED that job but I did quite enjoy that nerdy moment of looking at the figures there...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 15:56:25 GMT
So, in a manner of 'outing' myself until fairly recently I used to asses reports on finances to the Arts Council for a living (hey it's a dirty job and all...) So while this is obviously an edited highlight version of that, and slightly different given it's England and I worked for Wales...all told that's a report that would get a strong 'Tick' and a 'nothing to worry about carry on' type response (given we/they respond and personally work with Portfolio clients or whatever they call them at ACE) Also an 83% self-generated income is none to bloody shabby. There are organisations getting far more public money for far more a percentage of their income. Also if I was looking at this the fact a big chunk of their money actually goes on production is another sign they're using resources well (again many a company don't) Depreciation is related to assets, so most likely the buildings or anything else they outright own, which naturally devaules over time but isn't taken into account in terms of the net income etc. So my main guess there is the physical spaces and any particularly valuable kit they have? Even though the 93% isn't a true picture (comps, press tickets etc) the 75% is a decent outing for a venue like this, and as above, they'd have comfortably broken even I'd guess (not knowing their personal figures but at an educated guess). So again none to shabby on ticket sales. My memory of what is in that season isn't great but I'd wager that Angels and Follies will mostly balance out the flops, if there's nothing too disastrous in the future. Also War Horse and Curious on tour will probably more than balance out some less great sales for some of Jane Eyre's stops. Wow I HATED that job but I did quite enjoy that nerdy moment of looking at the figures there... OMG actual knowledge and insight! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 16:01:41 GMT
@abby haha I wouldn't go quite that far!
But yes my job was to check budgets pre-award and finance reports post-award. The way things work in Wales I didn't (full disclosure) ever work directly on the 'Portfolio' clients, so the equivalent of NT etc. BUT the nature of my role meant a fair bit of crossover/knowledge from those who did. And well, I literally sat next to them so you pick a few things up.
Endlessly fascinating actually are the ways in which companies break down their finances, and relatively who is doing well for their % of public money. (Or Lottery money, which was where I mostly worked). As are the rules about what you can and can't pay for. No booze (kinda a given) but also no Fireworks. So it's a good job the NT's tradition of setting off a rocket on opening night ended back in the 80s.
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Post by Jan on Oct 11, 2017 16:29:30 GMT
So it's a good job the NT's tradition of setting off a rocket on opening night ended back in the 80s. When they first opened on the South Bank they set off a rocket on curtain up every night, not just opening nights. It was a tradition created by Ralph Richardson who after the first one said "I love fireworks, they are so unnecessary". Quite soon this reverted to just opening nights. The short-lived tradition was stopped in the 80s due to the IRA bombing campaigns. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 17:15:20 GMT
So it's a good job the NT's tradition of setting off a rocket on opening night ended back in the 80s. When they first opened on the South Bank they set off a rocket on curtain up every night, not just opening nights. It was a tradition created by Ralph Richardson who after the first one said "I love fireworks, they are so unnecessary". Quite soon this reverted to just opening nights. The short-lived tradition was stopped in the 80s due to the IRA bombing campaigns. I was at the performance of Romans in Britain when a fracas broke out at the front right of the stalls. Demonstrators had barged their way in and lobbed fireworks onto the stage which had ‘straw’ all over it. The actors stopped, started stamping on the flames to put them out, and the demonstartors-who had shouted something about the IRA- were bundled out. The performance quickly resumed... |
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Post by peelee on Oct 11, 2017 17:16:39 GMT
Years ago, possibly in 2007 or 2008, we came out of the theatre after a good Saturday matinee and were delighted to see fireworks starting to go off upriver. It was the Lord Mayor's fireworks display, and hundreds of theatregoers had that bonus to enjoy. It wasn't often we'd go to a Saturday matinee at the National, and I thought perhaps it was Howard Davies's-directed Philistines by Maxim Gorky on the evening of those fireworks except I don't think the dates tally. This year's similar event is approaching: lordmayorsshow.london/fireworks/ |
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Post by Jan on Oct 11, 2017 17:19:39 GMT
When they first opened on the South Bank they set off a rocket on curtain up every night, not just opening nights. It was a tradition created by Ralph Richardson who after the first one said "I love fireworks, they are so unnecessary". Quite soon this reverted to just opening nights. The short-lived tradition was stopped in the 80s due to the IRA bombing campaigns. I was at the performance of Romans in Britain when a fracas broke out at the front right of the stalls. Demonstrators had barged their way in and lobbed fireworks onto the stage which had ‘straw’ all over it. The actors stopped, started stamping on the flames to put them out, and the demonstartors-who had shouted something about the IRA- were bundled out. The performance quickly resumed... Interesting. You should start a thread for “Unauthorised people on stage” - I’ve got an odd one. In that RSC Complete Works Festival when they did Henry VIII in that church in Stratford they used real fireworks outside as part of the staging. One of the few productions I tried to get tickets for and failed. Billington rates it as the best production of that play he’s seen. |
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 11, 2017 18:03:10 GMT
I was at the performance of Romans in Britain when a fracas broke out at the front right of the stalls. Demonstrators had barged their way in and lobbed fireworks onto the stage which had ‘straw’ all over it. The actors stopped, started stamping on the flames to put them out, and the demonstartors-who had shouted something about the IRA- were bundled out. The performance quickly resumed... Interesting. You should start a thread for “Unauthorised people on stage” - I’ve got an odd one. In that RSC Complete Works Festival when they did Henry VIII in that church in Stratford they used real fireworks outside as part of the staging. One of the few productions I tried to get tickets for and failed. Billington rates it as the best production of that play he’s seen. "That church" you mean Holy Trinity where Shakespeare's grave is! You are a card. I saw that and dont recall any fireworks. The big fuss was the use of a real life baby at the end for the infant Elizabeth. Good production. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 18:09:00 GMT
Well @theatremonkey I didn't like to say (re: depreciation) legal ramifications and all that Also fascinating is what people will try and sneak INTO their expenses. Though amusingly the Temp who working in my team, having no experience in the arts could also frequently heard to mutter 'You want a what?' while reviewing applications. Meanwhile the rest of us were inclined to shrug and and say 'Sure I guess 5 children's paddling pools seems reasonable. Can we include the water bill or is that company running costs anyone know?' |
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