|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 20:55:26 GMT
Left in the interval. Just wasn't feeling it at all. Totally didn't grip me in any way. Sorry you also didn't enjoy it I was expecting something Gritty and challenging It's so wanting Like a child wrote it |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 21:05:01 GMT
You mean the play that was voted 36th best play of the 20th century in the NT's end of century poll? The dialogue is both accurate in its reflection of northern speech and heightened with its poeticism. If you can't figure outbthe social commentary within the play, then you really weren't trying very hard. 😂😂😂😂 36th Were you also told coming second in sports day was good And 50% was a high mark The same NT Who have comissioned and staged Common and Mosquitoes 😂😂😂😂 It was for the NT. not by it. Coming below it are a number of plays that any writer would be proud to be thought of as having written better. It is useful to have lived in a number of different sections of society, it means you have an empathy for most and a sense of who is truly representative and who is the outlier. EDIT: and I really don't get why you are name checking some of the other outstanding plays on the list. I'll even give them the Cooney play, it's the perfect example of British farce. |
|
562 posts
|
Post by jadnoop on Jul 31, 2017 21:07:21 GMT
And our country's good 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I understand that it's exciting and you want to tell your online buddies all about how bad you thought the play was, but it's okay to pause for a few seconds, and collect your thoughts onto a single post. If you're going to make each comment split out into multiple 1 or 2 word sentences then it can make the posts get a bit clunky and makes some of your thoughts awkward to read as a whole. It also means that other people's comments get lost. If you hit the post button too early and would like to make a change, it's also possible to do an 'edit'. It's the button in the top right of your posts here: imgur.com/FEJs0e3 |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 21:11:11 GMT
And our country's good 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I understand that it's exciting and you want to tell your online buddies all about how bad you thought the play was, but it's okay to pause for a few seconds, and collect your thoughts onto a single post. If you're going to make each comment split out into multiple 1 or 2 word sentences then it can make the posts get a bit clunky and makes some of your thoughts awkward to read as a whole. It also means that other people's comments get lost. If you hit the post button too early and would like to make a change, it's also possible to do an 'edit'. It's the button in the top right of your posts here: imgur.com/FEJs0e3Thanks I'll let my PA know |
|
45 posts
|
Post by publius on Jul 31, 2017 23:00:43 GMT
You mean the play that was voted 36th best play of the 20th century in the NT's end of century poll? The dialogue is both accurate in its reflection of northern speech and heightened with its poeticism. If you can't figure out the social commentary within the play, then you really weren't trying very hard. I could name real life versions of about three quarters of the characters, I doubt that they thought of themselves as 'stereotypes'. I have no doubts that Parsley has had few if any real shared life experiences of the working class in social situations. In fact, they seem to be the consistent target of his disdain when depicted on stage in natural situations and displaying both authentic attitudes and language. It's because we're all beneath him... As someone who is proud to have grown up on a poor inner city council estate and who can relate to such characters I would like to tell him, on behalf of friends, family and fellow gutter dwellers to F.... |
|
45 posts
|
Post by publius on Jul 31, 2017 23:09:53 GMT
It's a bit like saying "Oh that dog sh*t won't taste very nice" Hardly premonition exquisite Thank you for making it clear just how much you despise people of my upbringing and location. It would be interesting to find out what the reaction would be, if you went there and tried your comments out in situ. I grew up just off the Old Kent Road... He wouldn't have the courage to get off the bus there nevermind tell us scumbags what he thought of us... Time to ban this idiot. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 23:20:25 GMT
Thank you for making it clear just how much you despise people of my upbringing and location. It would be interesting to find out what the reaction would be, if you went there and tried your comments out in situ. I grew up just off the Old Kent Road... He wouldn't have the courage to get off the bus there nevermind tell us scumbags what he thought of us... Time to ban this idiot. For the record my comment referred To the quality of the play as dog sh*t Not the subject matter or the people portrayed in it Quite different indeed A similar criticism has been made about Dessert at Southwark playhouse Which portrays a stereotyped wealthy group of people That it is unsubtle and ineffective and even vulgar That's how I found Road A parody Perhaps working class playwrights lack something when it comes to storytelling That is an important part of a play you know Just presenting a group of people From Whatever social background does make an engaging play So some people will obviously identify with some characters Again that doesn't make for a satisfying whole You can just as well watch a social documentary Like Distant Voices Still Lives One of my favourite films from one my my best directors One of my favourite plays is Port Which left me very moved and affected And actually showed people having proper interactions Not like Road Which shows them behaving like small children And quite frankly does nothing positive for the people it tries to portray I didn't find it timely Or relevant I found it stupid dumb and self indulgent And secondly Hardly likely to be on a bus |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 0:04:04 GMT
You are just digging deeper, Some knowledge of different approaches to characterisation would help, that heightening is not the same as stereotyping, that social realism is not the only way to represent people who you see as lower class or to highlight 'issues', that montage and monologue are excellent means to represent isolated lives in isolating circumstances.
You wouldn't find it timely because you live in a rarefied world of metropolitan hauteur, haute couture and surfaces. Nicely packaged Terence Davies films that trade on nostalgia and quiet desperation have their place but the reality was/is loud, sweary, alive and often teetering on the edge of kicking off. The world of 'Rita, Sue and Bob, Too', of 'Shameless' (which, at times was scarily close to reality), of 'Bouncers'.
I've lived in comparative wealth and on the edge of poverty, surrounded by high culture and working men's clubs, suburbia and council flats. Parts remind me of relatives, parts my own teenage years. You get to know what rings true. Any attempt to claim objectivity and that you are talking about the production really doesn't cut it when you can't help inserting even more digs at the working class.
The final chorus of 'somehow a somehow might escape', that is so powerful. That was me, destined for the factories that would soon close anyway, drilled by my grandmother into the importance of education, of speaking properly and of not getting into trouble. 'Somehow a somehow'.......I escaped.
|
|
|
|
Post by perfectspy on Aug 5, 2017 19:46:42 GMT
I saw this on the Thursday matinee. It was pretty good, very much enjoyed. I'll leave my comments to that.
|
|
524 posts
|
Post by wiggymess on Aug 11, 2017 8:37:21 GMT
I saw this yesterday matinee and found it very moving.
I'm not going to bother scrolling back through this thread, I have no interest in seeing or engaging with the small-minded, sneering opinions I'm sure I'll find. Mainly because, to be frank, this isn't their play.
I grew up in a working class area in the South. Like most, my experiences have shaped me.
I recognised Scullery right away. The the way he speaks, the way he moves, the way people who know him move around him, (and crucially) the way those who don't know him move around him. My life is richer having been surrounded by people similar to those depicted in this play, there isn't an ounce of doubt in my mind about that.
It was enthralling, invigorating and joyful to see these people portrayed on stage, in all their messy, flawed glory.
I also know plenty of people who were, and still are, left behind.
What a perfect use of Lippy Kids.
|
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 11, 2017 8:48:14 GMT
I'm off to see this on Monday - question: I have a choice of two tickets, one centre front circle, the other stalls row C - which should I go for?
|
|
524 posts
|
Post by wiggymess on Aug 11, 2017 8:52:57 GMT
I'm off to see this on Monday - question: I have a choice of two tickets, one centre front circle, the other stalls row C - which should I go for? TM's your man  This might help in the mean time seatplan.com/london/royal-court-theatre/ |
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 11, 2017 10:25:10 GMT
Row C stalls unless very short Thanks...I'm 5'5" so the tall people thing can be an issue! |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 10:25:27 GMT
Also note for Road - "some episodes spill down a flight of steps towards the stalls." so the stalls may be a better experience.
|
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 11, 2017 10:42:16 GMT
Thanks - I think the circle might be more comfy neckwise, though, because I'm not tall! It's a long time since I sat in the Royal Court stalls...though I see from theatremonkey that further back in the stalls and front row circle are premium so... decisions...
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 11:28:04 GMT
This production is very rich from moment to moment and scene to scene but I regret that I also found it obscure, like most Opera and many Classical Theatre productions.
Most actors are cast in multiple named roles and also in other smaller, unnamed ones. And most scenes are played in the same, central space on the stage. So, when actors reappear in different scenes, there's often insufficient clue as to whether they are returning characters or new characters. I could only piece together the sense of what I'd seen by rooting through the playtext afterwards.
I completely missed the simple, central story of Carol and Louise in the first half because I wrongly thought that the actors were playing different characters in each scene. And, conversely, I wrongly identified bed-bound Joey as the same character as the stay-at-home brother in the early scene. And then I sat fruitlessly racking my brain trying to recall where Clare might also have featured in an earlier scene. Mark Hadfield's scenes were here diminished by the ambiguity as to whether they were each new or returning characters.
The final scene of mass community movement is very powerful (as is very much else, from moment to moment) and it made me reflect as to whether the director and designer had chosen deliberately to present Road as a total community and to strip out as many elements of individual story as possible. It would seem a slightly wayward approach - I don't really understand it.
Another Operatic aspect is the setting of the time of this production. The text is very specifically set in the time it was written and first produced. But this production seems to let the present seep in at times, although it completely ignores aspects of today's Lancashire towns such as the largely divergent White and Asian communities there.
In the original production, there was a whole road of individual dwellings set all around the promenading audience, so each character was physically linked to their individual set and everything was so so much more clear. I think that the repeated forum criticisms in previous posts of a "series of vignettes" stem from the casting and staging of this production - the audience isn't presented with enough information to properly follow all the narrative and character links which are actually there in the text.
And it doesn't help that the acooustic is too reverberant with this set - with clear sound only in the miked scenes staged in the enclosed room.
I'd still recommend seeing this production which is very fine in many ways. But it has also niggled me in the ways I've tried to explain.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 11:47:01 GMT
Yes, the production fell short of the script, in my opinion.The physical divide between character and audience should be non existent but it felt like i was being treated as separate rather than part of them, being placed an observer at an objective distance. Maybe that's because these are 'my people' in a way that the well heeled Royal Court audience isn't (however much I am part of it, it never goes away). I wasn't so worried about the characters, maybe as I knew the play anyway, but, as nobody else had mentioned it, I thought the acoustic was just me from where I was sitting (side stalls halfway back). I rationalised it as the acoustcs of the sort of place shown, with the hard surfaces of packed in buildings, but it also added to the relative coldness.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 12:06:31 GMT
Yes, the production fell short of the script, in my opinion. I felt that it lost some of the direct clarity of the text but it added other things, evoking elements of later Jim Cartwright plays such as the music of Little Voice and the whimsy of Bed. Probably an intentional Operatic approach to be multi-dimensional. as nobody else had mentioned it, I thought the acoustic was just me from where I was sitting (side stalls halfway back). I rationalised it as the acoustcs of the sort of place shown, with the hard surfaces of packed in buildings, but it also added to the relative coldness. I sat similar, a bit more central. I had the same sound issue, to a greater degree, at X because of its three-sided (and topped?) box set. I doubt it's an aesthetic sound choice (coldness?), more likely a feature of hard stage walls, and the problem is that I lose a lot of the dialogue - Obviously, it affects people differently, according to their hearing condition. The physical divide between character and audience should be non existent but it felt like i was being treated as separate rather than part of them, being placed an observer at an objective distance. Maybe that's because these are 'my people' in a way that the well heeled Royal Court audience isn't (however much I am part of it, it never goes away). Lemn Sissay as Scullery was brilliant at bridging that gap but the staging does deliberately keep everyone else apart from the audience. I didn't mind that because in the text it is Scullery introducing us all to the road on this night so we should relate directly with him and we should just be observers of everyone else. |
|
747 posts
|
Post by Latecomer on Aug 11, 2017 12:20:56 GMT
Saw it yesterday and I too found it frustrating.....the sound (couldn't make out some of the dialogue and I am from Manchester!), the box (added a barrier between us and the actors), trying to work out if doubling was supposed to be the same character or different, the exasperation of wanting to see more of some of the charatcters as we quickly moved on to the next......I can imagine it would have worked far better as promenade with each set of characters in their own setting. I also found narrator annoying...couldn't make out what he was saying sometimes and did not seem drunk And I found his breaking of the 4th wall unconvincing and quite cringe making.
I did enjoy bits of this but it never touched me and frequently irritated me.
Thanks also to the elderly couple behind who felt it necessary to keep up a running commentary!
Oh and to add to my irritation I paid full price for my ticket when booking first opened and then the Royal Court sent me an email asking if I would like to book with a special offer £10 off.....
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 12:44:54 GMT
I also found narrator annoying...couldn't make out what he was saying sometimes and did not seem drunk Ah, I'd forgotten he was meant to be drunk! He wasn't played as drunk. Yesterday afternoon, we (audience) didn't respond to some of his early addresses and I think maybe he held himself back, apart, a bit after that? Oh, couples behind! At both Road and Queen Anne yesterday, I had elderly visiting Americans - in varying degrees of detachment and alienated disengagement with both shows. At least they were in premium seats at Queen Anne and making a disproportionately generous contribution to keeping West End theatre financially afloat! It reminded me how diverse is the audience of London theatre, especially the West End, which makes it hard for some shows to make a proper direct engagement with the audience. The Road couple behind were bemoaning the prevalence of Ivo van Hove productions everywhere they go in the world, and ruing the apparent extinction of straightforward direction! I'm not sure they made the leap to fully connect with Road but they were happy enough to lap up Queen Anne, as an exotic gem, which of course is pretty much how I encountered it too. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 12:48:29 GMT
HG - the only thing I would disagree with is the idea that we are supposed to be observers of all except Scullery. I feel that each monologue section is best served by the character scanning the audience around them, looking them in the eye. This is best served by anything other than an end stage, so that it is clear that the character is making a choice as to talk to us (collectively and individually). Other outdoor scenes, in the street and chip shop, can be better served by the audience also being 'in the street/chip shop'. I'm glad I've seen it staged this way but I think it loses more than it gains.
|
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 11, 2017 15:25:46 GMT
Thanks for the advice - the stalls seat was row B not C so - thinking about my neck - I'm going with the circle (the man in the box office said it was his preferred seat of the two).
|
|
181 posts
|
Post by caa on Aug 11, 2017 17:02:55 GMT
I'm 5ft 7 and always go for front stalls at the Royal Court. Same here Front Row every time or anywhere in the stalls, Circle sometimes feels too far from the stage and has less leg room |
|
181 posts
|
Post by caa on Aug 11, 2017 17:10:21 GMT
Yes, the production fell short of the script, in my opinion.The physical divide between character and audience should be non existent but it felt like i was being treated as separate rather than part of them, being placed an observer at an objective distance. Maybe that's because these are 'my people' in a way that the well heeled Royal Court audience isn't (however much I am part of it, it never goes away). I wasn't so worried about the characters, maybe as I knew the play anyway, but, as nobody else had mentioned it, I thought the acoustic was just me from where I was sitting (side stalls halfway back). I rationalised it as the acoustcs of the sort of place shown, with the hard surfaces of packed in buildings, but it also added to the relative coldness. I really felt that the play lost something by not being a promenade production, and this meant there was less of an impact. I'm glad to see it again but I can't help thinking it was a better production when I first saw it in 1997 |
|
3,040 posts
|
Post by crowblack on Aug 11, 2017 17:13:31 GMT
I like front row where possible but if if the stage is low and the seats are raked a bit so the heads-in-front isn't an issue I prefer a couple of rows back because then you're on the actors' eye level. Leg room not an issue cos I'm short! I don't like being so close I'm looking up their noses if the stage level is high, though. |
|
