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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 12:46:12 GMT
I went on a sort-of-date with a guy who tried to tell me both Into the Woods and Company are awful, as was Sweeney. And proceeded to tell me basically he knew better than Sondheim generally. Now ITW I can just about let slide as my least favourite Sondheim (which still ranks it above a lot of other musicals) But somehow I don't see a future with this fella....  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 12:51:05 GMT
I can't help but feel that a vote for West Side Story or Gypsy is a vote for "I don't mind his lyrics but I think he's an absolutely terrible composer of music", and I have to wonder if that's what the 9 people who've voted for those two shows are actually aiming for... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 12:52:12 GMT
To be honest, old Stevie's best work is how he's managed to string out a load of shows like the list above from just one tune.
Oh I jest of course Sondfans. To be fair to him, it's two tunes.
I voted for 'A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum' of course. I loved it when Frankie used to try to do "the prologue". Oh no, titter ye not missus.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 12:56:04 GMT
Sunday makes me cry EVERY time Because you've got to get up for work the next day? |
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Post by theatremadness on Jul 3, 2017 13:00:35 GMT
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CHOOSE. SEND HELP, CAST RECORDINGS/DVD's AND PROBABLY COOKIES.
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19,659 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 3, 2017 16:44:09 GMT
I went on a sort-of-date with a guy who tried to tell me both Into the Woods and Company are awful, as was Sweeney. And proceeded to tell me basically he knew better than Sondheim generally. Now ITW I can just about let slide as my least favourite Sondheim (which still ranks it above a lot of other musicals) But somehow I don't see a future with this fella.... you've met Michael then! |
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Post by Michael on Jul 3, 2017 18:50:29 GMT
I went on a sort-of-date with a guy who tried to tell me both Into the Woods and Company are awful, as was Sweeney. you've met Michael then! It definitely wasn't me - I'd have never said such positive things about him |
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Post by infofreako on Jul 3, 2017 19:24:18 GMT
Having reflected on this over the weekend i have switched my vote to Sunday
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Post by orchestrator on Jul 3, 2017 21:18:52 GMT
To be honest, old Stevie's best work is how he's managed to string out a load of shows like the list above from just one tune. Oh I jest of course Sondfans. To be fair to him, it's two tunes. Sort these into your two tunes by typing A or B before each title, there’s a good chap, Ryan. Hey, Old Friend — same same same up down down same same Sunday — up down up down up up down down down down up Children & Art — up down up down up up down up Pretty Lady — same same down down down up same same up up up down Last Midnight — up down down down down up down down (too much sherry, maybe that last down is an up) Everybody Has The Right — up up up down up up up down up up Green Finch — down down down down up down down up down down down up same same up Broadway Baby — up down down up up up down down up down up same same I Remember — same up up down down same up up down Comedy Tonight — up down up up down up down down down Send In The Clowns — up up same down up up same up up down up up same same same up down up Everybody Says Don’t — same same same same up down same same same same up Cheers x |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 3, 2017 21:46:37 GMT
I voted for Sweeney which has, by the criteria you list, got to be the greatest. Why? ....
It has true operatic sweep but it is still a musical (others that attempt this i.e. Les Mis, Phantom are laughable by comparison)
Integration of musical motifs to produce a distinctive and homogeneous sound-world.
Melodically inspired with much variety
Clever use of Dies Irae theme to bind it all together in an almost Wagnerian way.
Seen lots of productions but one of my favourites was at the short lived Twickenham Theatre with David Bedella, really intense and claustrophobic.
My favourite Sondheim though, and the one I find most affecting, would be Merrily - as the sourness of the relationships turns back to innocence and youthful idealism it is expressed in that deceptively simple, but gut-wrenchingly heartbreaking, final song 'Our Time.'
I'm a complete Sondheim obsessive and love them all....
The austerity (that word!) of Pacific Overtures
The sumptuousness of A Little night Music (homage to Richard Strauss)
The fecundity of Company
The eclecticism of Follies
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 4, 2017 11:29:11 GMT
Clever use of Dies Iraq theme to bind it all together in an almost Wagnerian way. Is this a typo or did Sondheim foresee the Iraq wars? |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 4, 2017 16:19:29 GMT
That'll teach me with my poncey Wagnerian references!
It's SO annoying you can't correct a typo after an hour.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 4, 2017 16:54:36 GMT
That'll teach me with my poncey Wagnerian references! It's SO annoying you can't correct a typo after an hour. In which circumstances you only have to call on one of us to help! corrected  |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 4, 2017 18:19:30 GMT
That'll teach me with my poncey Wagnerian references! It's SO annoying you can't correct a typo after an hour. In which circumstances you only have to call on one of us to help! corrected Thank you. |
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Post by Mr Snow on Jul 6, 2017 16:24:41 GMT
Bumping this as voting closes in the morning and then its PART 2!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 17:07:47 GMT
Sort these into your two tunes by typing A or B before each title, there’s a good chap, Ryan. Hey, Old Friend — same same same up down down same same Sunday — up down up down up up down down down down up Children & Art — up down up down up up down up Pretty Lady — same same down down down up same same up up up down Last Midnight — up down down down down up down down (too much sherry, maybe that last down is an up) Everybody Has The Right — up up up down up up up down up up Green Finch — down down down down up down down up down down down up same same up Broadway Baby — up down down up up up down down up down up same same I Remember — same up up down down same up up down Comedy Tonight — up down up up down up down down down Send In The Clowns — up up same down up up same up up down up up same same same up down up Everybody Says Don’t — same same same same up down same same same same up Cheers x Oh, I see what you've done there. You're trying to prove to me that they're different songs aren't you? Very clever.  |
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Post by theatremadness on Jul 6, 2017 17:37:42 GMT
So, I've seen a good chunk of them over my relatively young years; West Side Story at Sadlers Wells, Gypsy at Chichester/Savoy, Company in Concert (Donmar version) at the Queen's for Sondheim's 80th, Sweeney Todd at the Adelphi, Merrily at the Harold Pinter, Into The Woods at Regent's Park, Assassins at the Menier, Side By Side By Sondhiem at the Brockley Jack and Putting It Together in Guildford (with Follies at the National coming up). In terms of productions - I reckon I'd rank Assassins at the Menier top of that list for me, it was just absolutely thrilling in every sense! I'd probably put Company up top but it was in concert as opposed to a full production.
But I had to choose Company as his greatest overall work, in my opinion. Most of his stuff is pretty emotional, yes, but his hits me in a way that some of the others don't. I don't even particularly relate to it at all, but I can relate to and empathise the emotions and for some reason it gets me deep down. I think the score is just beautiful and it's probably the one I could listen to in its entirety without skipping any tracks. I love the device of a series of vignettes strung together by revolving around this one constant and the various different interpretations this leads to. It's also tremendously funny and witty with a great set of characters who are at the same time completely recognisable yet realistically caricatured.
Anyway, above all that, the string section in 'Another Hundred People' on the Original Broadway Cast Recording was enough for Company to get my vote!
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 6, 2017 17:54:13 GMT
I haven't seen Forum, Sunday or Company as yet.
I had to go with West Side Story, there is a reason why it is voted one of the top musicals of all time, I know Stephen Sondheim only done the lyrics, likewise second favourite is Gypsy, then Merrily We Roll Along.
I cannot stand Into The Woods.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 6, 2017 19:13:38 GMT
I can't help but feel that a vote for West Side Story or Gypsy is a vote for "I don't mind his lyrics but I think he's an absolutely terrible composer of music", and I have to wonder if that's what the 9 people who've voted for those two shows are actually aiming for... Anyone else's opinion you'd like to dismiss? I voted WSS and not for that reason. I love Sweeney and Into The Woods aswell. But I did read the original post and based my vote on that. |
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Post by Mr Snow on Jul 7, 2017 12:36:38 GMT
Thanks to everyone who’s voted. It’s been fascinating seeing the clear leader emerge and reading the explanations for your choices. Also profuse (and totally insincere) apologies to all those who found this exercise simply too, too painful!
Thankfully the 88 votes received were spread across exactly 10 works!
The 2017 Theatre Talk Ranking of Sondheim’s works.
Sweeney Todd
A Little Night Music
Into The Woods
Sunday in the Park with George
Company
Assassins
West Side Story
Merrily We Roll Along
A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum
Gypsy
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Post by Mr Snow on Jul 7, 2017 12:43:45 GMT
PART 2
The strength of this board comes from its participants being an active theatre goers. The excitement about each new production, is palpable. But what often gets ignored are the recordings available of older productions. This is in complete contrast to Classical Music Forums where the energy is all about the recorded history of performances and they live to compare Kielberth or Knappertsbusch, ‘52 or ‘57? When you think about it we spend more time away from the theatre than we do attending and until recently you only dreamed of hearing what the original performances were like. Today using Youtube, Spotify, iTunes etc. everyone can access a huge amount of material.
Now we have a Top 10 of Sondheim’s works, we need recommendations for the greatest recordings. In Part 2 the aim is to find out what you think are the best versions available on
Audio (CD/Vinyl/Download etc)
Video (DVD/Blu-ray/Web etc)
Hopefully you will have heard at least two versions before voting. This may mean you feel qualified to recommend e.g. an audio but not a video, but ideally if you can, recommend one of each.
Starting today until Sunday we’re taking votes for the favourite audio and videos of the TheatreBoard top 3
Sweeney Todd
A Little Night Music
Into The Woods
Please tell us the reasons for your choice. Perhaps it’s a particularly strong performance? The most complete version? Those who recall Robert Cushman’s excellent BBC shows Book, Music and Lyrics will know he always tended to favour the original cast recording, as it was closest to the authors conception. When I haven’t chosen the original, I’ve often gone for a souvenir of the cast I’ve seen and frankly there are times when neither choice has proved ideal. Also at least six of the top 10 have a Film version to compare with the more complete stage versions; a justification of your choice will be most interesting.
Let the fun begin.
NB there will be more added Sunday PM, please hold your horses until then. It will be great if we can get some debate going on the relative merits of different recordings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2017 22:22:42 GMT
Sweeney Todd has to be the original Broadway cast with Angela Lansbury - I saw her do it on Broadway and was blown away by her performance.
Night Music again the original Broadway cast mainly because of Glynis Johns' version of Send In The Clowns which I only saw on TV in the UK on the Russell Harty show I think. her performance was so poignant and full of emotion. That said the British cast with Jean Simmons, which I saw at the Adelphi, is a close second favourite.
Into The Woods my choice is the original London cast for Julia McKenzie's amazing Witch and Imelda Staunton's wonderfully naive Baker's Wife. I saw both the West End and Broadway versions of the show and I think the London cast caught the essence of the fairy tale/pantomime theme much better.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 9, 2017 8:15:03 GMT
Sweeney - OBC
NIght Music - NT
Woods - OLC
All three are definitive in multiple aspects. Quality sound and Singers
With NM and Woods I love the inclusion of Dinner Table and Our Little World which are often ignored on other recordings
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Post by sayers500 on Jul 9, 2017 17:01:57 GMT
For ALM, I prefer Alex Hanson and Angela Lansbury to the original actors but find the bare orchestrations frustrating and the inclusion of speech means that I usually listen to the OBC just so I can get A Weekend in the Country without Catherine Zeta Jones being annoying. For the same reason, I don't listen to the Evans/Russel Sunday recording, preferring the OBC which cuts more of the dialogue.
I find Nicholas Parsons annoying in the OLC recording of Woods (he cannot sing in Ever After!!) and find the posh English accents offputting. The OBC is far better for my taste. The tempo of Giants in the Sky is far better than the OLC that treats it like a race and the cast make the more annoying sections (the slotted spoon can catch the potato section in particular) the least annoying I've heard. The movie soundtrack doesn't even compete, even though Blunt's bakers wife was pretty great!
I've only ever listened to the Ball/Staunton Sweeney Todd recording which is pretty wonderful even if it misses out large sections like Pirelli's Miracle Elixir. I've been trying and failing for a number of years to find a recording of Terfel's Todd. I'm sure Rob Brydon used one in his Desert Island Discs but am not sure if that was a special recording or if there is a full recording. Also, dis they ever record the ROH production with Felicity Palmer as Lovett? That would be a fascinating listen!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2017 17:19:10 GMT
^They're both available in dark corners of the web, you just have to REALLY look for them ;-)
I think the biggest crime is that the 1993 NT revival was never officially released on disc though again you can find a BBC recording of the whole show which is perfection. That we don't have Julia's Lovett on disc is a shame, but as I said at least she did record it.
Best Sweeney - OBC, it's pretty complete bar a few slight measure cuts here and there
Best Night Music - OBC, though the 2010 revival deserves a mention
Best Woods - OLC if for Julia McKenzie's glorious Witch alone.
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