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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 15:54:45 GMT
If you want to hear lyrics which are misogynistic, homophobic, encourage drug taking and violence then he's your man... So a bit like Shakespeare then? Boom! Well done, sir. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 15:55:23 GMT
I can't be bothered to quote and edit quote, it's too late on a Friday (clearly I am a lazy yoof, despite not being a yoof by any stretch)
But yes, you erm beat me to it on the cock joke front (ahem)
Look I get the idea of preservation and historical preservation I really do, in another life I was a history teacher and another an English one, and being able to show people (not just the afore mentioned yoofs) how it 'would have been done' has it's uses sure, but I'd far rather a) productions that get people engaged and talking b) interesting re-interpretations because my God even some of the Bard's best stuff gets tedious in the 20th viewing of a bog-standard re-telling.
To the best of my knowledge The Globe doesn't have in it's consitution that it will be ONLY for faithful re-productions of 'how it was done back then' if it was, and therefore was a museum rather than a working theatre, then this debate would be different.
Also is nobody going to mention the terrifying fact this production is full of Clowns?!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 15:56:08 GMT
If you want to hear lyrics which are misogynistic, homophobic, encourage drug taking and violence then he's your man... So a bit like Shakespeare then? As the kids say "Mic drop" |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 15:56:33 GMT
"Do you think I mean country matters?" I mean, how obvious do you need to be? (Also see 'The Country Wife', Restoration theatre would frankly be nothing without overt references to genitalia).
"What, with my tongue in your tail?" Oo-er, very 'Carry On' Mr Petruchio.....
'Much Ado About Nothing' would surely be innocent though if it weren't for the fact that 'Nothing' was used by Elizabethans to refer to a lady's private parts.
So what was that about cock jokes?
See also Chaucer with what is generally agreed to be the best arse-kissing joke in English literature. |
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 15:57:51 GMT
If you want to hear lyrics which are misogynistic, homophobic, encourage drug taking and violence then he's your man... So a bit like Shakespeare then? Please, not even in a joke, compare the most important cornerstone of our cultural heritage with such low-life... |
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 15:58:50 GMT
So a bit like Shakespeare then? As the kids say "Mic drop" As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 16:03:02 GMT
As the kids say "Mic drop" As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? Well I had to google him, but I think he's a young man doing very well for himself in the music scene, and also bringing an under represented minority music culture to the mainstream. So sure, why not? Also I'm not a teacher any more the clue was in the word 'former' |
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Post by iamian on Apr 28, 2017 16:04:42 GMT
As the kids say "Mic drop" As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? OMG you totally would have tried to get the Sex Pistols banned! and calling him 'low life' is starting to stray into some rather unpleasant territory... |
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 16:08:19 GMT
As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? Well I had to google him, but I think he's a young man doing very well for himself in the music scene, and also bringing an under represented minority music culture to the mainstream. So sure, why not? Also I'm not a teacher any more the clue was in the word 'former' So, and correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying is that you approve of "minority" kids being told that it's ok to be misogynistic, homophobic, violent and taking drugs if they see that a way to be successful?
Never mind that such behaviour is at odds with the liberal views you harbour as long as poor black kids are doing "their thing" it's ok?
Do you not see the hypocrisy? Are you equally defensive of poor white kids who grew up on dead end council estates who got into football violence or are they scum of the earth?
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 16:09:29 GMT
As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? OMG you totally would have tried to get the Sex Pistols banned! and calling him 'low life' is starting to stray into some rather unpleasant territory... I don't know about you but women haters and homophobic people are low-life in my opinion... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 16:10:41 GMT
Well I had to google him, but I think he's a young man doing very well for himself in the music scene, and also bringing an under represented minority music culture to the mainstream. So sure, why not? Also I'm not a teacher any more the clue was in the word 'former' So, and correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying is that you approve of "minority" kids being told that it's ok to be misogynistic, homophobic, violent and taking drugs if they see that a way to be successful?
Never mind that such behaviour is at odds with the liberal views you harbour as long as poor black kids are doing "their thing" it's ok?
Do you not see the hypocrisy? Are you equally defensive of poor white kids who grew up on dead end council estates who got into football violence or are they scum of the earth?
Clearly sarcasm passes you by. I said I had no idea who he is, I read his Wikipedia page, unlike you I'm not making an opinion of something or someone without actually engaging with it, so without listening to his music I cannot pass comment. However as pointed out above, the sweeping generalisation about music from a minority group by yourself is skirting into dangerous territory. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 16:13:57 GMT
Skepta's music is critically respected, for example with a Mercury music prize nomination.
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 16:16:16 GMT
So, and correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying is that you approve of "minority" kids being told that it's ok to be misogynistic, homophobic, violent and taking drugs if they see that a way to be successful?
Never mind that such behaviour is at odds with the liberal views you harbour as long as poor black kids are doing "their thing" it's ok?
Do you not see the hypocrisy? Are you equally defensive of poor white kids who grew up on dead end council estates who got into football violence or are they scum of the earth?
Clearly sarcasm passes you by. I said I had no idea who he is, I read his Wikipedia page, unlike you I'm not making an opinion of something or someone without actually engaging with it, so without listening to his music I cannot pass comment. However as pointed out above, the sweeping generalisation about music from a minority group by yourself is skirting into dangerous territory. As a PASSIONATE fan of the Blues I know it has nothing to do with race...
These are just criminals with microphones.
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 16:17:00 GMT
Skepta's music is critically respected, for example with a Mercury music prize nomination. A decision which was ridiculed beyond all belief...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 16:21:52 GMT
Skepta's music is critically respected, for example with a Mercury music prize nomination. A decision which was ridiculed beyond all belief...
... by Edmundokeano and the Board of the Globe? |
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Post by iamian on Apr 28, 2017 16:22:17 GMT
OMG you totally would have tried to get the Sex Pistols banned! and calling him 'low life' is starting to stray into some rather unpleasant territory... I don't know about you but women haters and homophobic people are low-life in my opinion... I'm not sure that your opinion of him is based on the most in depth knowledge of him as an artist or a person. I only know a few of his songs but in the last 10 minutes I've struggled to find homophobic or misogynistic lyrics on his Mercury Prize winning album |
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Post by jadnoop on Apr 28, 2017 16:29:04 GMT
As the kids say "Mic drop" As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? It's quite telling that you've decided on your 'lines in the sand' on which to determine whether or not art is acceptable (i.e. homophobic lyrics, or violence or cock jokes or whatever), but you completely ignored or brushed aside when people have commented that Shakespeare plays have some of these traits too. It's also kinda strange that you keep going back to this notion of 'encouraging the children', as though a piece of art has no value other than the lessons it teaches us. I enjoy Romeo & Juliet as a play, but if I was that worried about was the message that kids would get I'm not sure I'd think that a love story that ends in double suicide of young teens is the best. Art -just like everything else- is defined by more than just one thing. It can be beautiful and horrible, enlightening and repulsive, it can be fun and morally dubious. |
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Post by peggs on Apr 28, 2017 19:09:24 GMT
Goodness if i'f known how this conversation was carrying on I wouldn't have bothered with going back to work this afternoon.
And yes as someone mentioned too many clowns!
I have my £5 ticket for sometime this summer so will see what I think then, someone at work said her friend was going and I mentioned it could be interested as they'd cast it older, she frowned and said she would not pass that on, I'll keep quite about the clowns and dinosaurs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 19:31:26 GMT
I would argue that the introduction of women to the stage benefitted society but littering Romeo and Juliet with, according to the reviews, cock jokes probably isn't. Oh boy, if you don't like cock jokes, I have bad news for you about literally the entire Shakespeare canon... |
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Post by edmundokeano on Apr 28, 2017 20:06:32 GMT
I would argue that the introduction of women to the stage benefitted society but littering Romeo and Juliet with, according to the reviews, cock jokes probably isn't. Oh boy, if you don't like cock jokes, I have bad news for you about literally the entire Shakespeare canon... As said above, they're puns and clever... cock jokes for cock jokes sake and to snatch attention away from an awful production is something completely different. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 20:12:49 GMT
[Yawns]
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 20:35:56 GMT
Oh boy, if you don't like cock jokes, I have bad news for you about literally the entire Shakespeare canon... As said above, they're puns and clever... cock jokes for cock jokes sake and to snatch attention away from an awful production is something completely different. Yep. And as everyone else said above, if you think that you clearly don't know a thing about Shakespeare. Oh man, I can't believe I came out of the theatre and started this again. Someone take my damn phone off me! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 23:01:52 GMT
As a teacher do you think we should be encouraging children to listen to people like Skepta? It's quite telling that you've decided on your 'lines in the sand' on which to determine whether or not art is acceptable (i.e. homophobic lyrics, or violence or cock jokes or whatever), but you completely ignored or brushed aside when people have commented that Shakespeare plays have some of these traits too. It's also kinda strange that you keep going back to this notion of 'encouraging the children', as though a piece of art has no value other than the lessons it teaches us. I enjoy Romeo & Juliet as a play, but if I was that worried about was the message that kids would get I'm not sure I'd think that a love story that ends in double suicide of young teens is the best. Art -just like everything else- is defined by more than just one thing. It can be beautiful and horrible, enlightening and repulsive, it can be fun and morally dubious. There are over 400 years of cultural development between William Shakespeare and Skepta. Attitudes towards homosexuality, violence and others things have thankfully moved on - in certain cultures at least - so suggesting that criticism of Skepta should automatically correlate with similar criticism of Shakespeare is muddying an otherwise quite simple distinction; the lie of the land was different then. The arts have been directly influenced by some of the worst atrocities of humanity, and they serve a useful reminder of who we once were, and what we once considered standard. Plus there are various scholars who suggest that Shakespeare was bi-sexual - if true then accusations of homophobia (if correct) might be more a symptom of the time than the man himself. I have very little knowledge of Skepta, so am not aware of whether his lyrics are indeed "misogynistic, homophobic, encourage drug taking and violence" or not. I imagine he might be thrilled to be compared to Shakespeare in discussions on a theatre forum though. I haven't seen the this production of R&J. I imagine it's quite a lot of fun. I hope so. |
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Post by Jan on Apr 29, 2017 9:57:23 GMT
Oh dear, Mikey Billington didn't like this at all, 1*, the assorted academics running the Globe must be pleased he is helping to vindicate their decision to terminate the current artistic regime there.
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Post by bordeaux on Apr 29, 2017 10:35:35 GMT
I would truly love for someone to explain to me why re-interpretation of a text is always hailed as 'dumbing down' when it comes to Shakespeare. I can't help but think that the man who borrowed from 100s of sources directly and clearly took on the trends and influences of his own time wouldn't, if presented with a Tardis say 'Aye well done I'd never have thought of doing it this way' and sat back and enjoyed the performance. And also if we are playing by the rules of 'as it was handed down to us' why has a woman ever been allowed to set foot on stage at The Globe then for a start? Except that radical re-interpretation isn't always denounced as 'dumbing-down'. Ivo van Hove's Roman Tragedies were adored earlier this year. Icke's Hamlet, Ostermeier's various Shakespeares, Deborah Warner's Lear and all her earlier stuff have received widespread praise. What matters is the intelligence and theatrical vision with which it is done.
Though, as someone said earlier, it's not worth getting worked up about as there'll be another one along in a minute.
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