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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 8, 2017 17:51:25 GMT
Very few would argue that Rodgers and Hammerstein were/are the greatest musical collaboration of all time.
South Pacific, The King and I and The Sound of Music all went on and won the Tony for best musical, however Oklahoma and Carousel didn't, for no other reason than the Tony awards wasn't around when they musicals premiered.
It is given that Oklahoma would've won the Tony because it was absolutely groundbreaking at the time and Broadway hadn't seen anything like it, it changed the course of musical of theatre. But would Carousel gone on to win the Tony?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 17:58:33 GMT
Do groundbreaking always equate to Tony winning thou? How many T's has Sondheim won?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 18:01:53 GMT
Do groundbreaking always equate to Tony winning thou? How many T's has Sondheim won? Bloody hell - 10! |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 8, 2017 18:08:44 GMT
It would have probably won the Tony, no other musical from 1945 is still represented, which might give us a clue about their value/quality. Carousel was the most dramatic musical ever written by then and it's much deeper than Oklahoma!
On the other hand, Follies lost the Tony to Two Gentlemen of Verona, a show that has practically disappeared from the radar, while Follies is considered one of the most iconic musicals ever. Pacific Overtures, which is (in my opinion) the most groundbreaking musical ever written, didn't manage to win the Tony, which went to another marvellous musical, A Chorus Line. But in 1975 the competition was tougher than in 1945, so who knows.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 8, 2017 23:53:53 GMT
It is worth noting that the greatest musical of all time didn't bag the Tony, which is 'West Side Story'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 10:32:45 GMT
It is worth noting that the greatest musical of all time didn't bag the Tony, which is 'West Side Story'. Not groundbreaking |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 11:02:04 GMT
Carousel's greatest competition would have been from On the Town, Bloomer Girl, Song of Norway and Up in Central Park. The last two are operetta throwbacks and Bloomer Girl was just aping Oklahoma but On the Town would have been a worthy winner, given its innovative dance element, Bernstein's score and its contemporary wartime setting.
If we take late April as the eligibility cut off date, the season after was a real dog, with only the revue Call Me Mister running longer than a year.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2017 17:30:07 GMT
It is worth noting that the greatest musical of all time didn't bag the Tony, which is 'West Side Story'. Not groundbreaking It's all subjective and how you define 'groundbreaking'. |
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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 9, 2017 17:50:10 GMT
It's all subjective and how you define 'groundbreaking'. Not as subjective as "the greatest musical of all time"  |
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2017 18:56:18 GMT
A lot if industry insiders say it's the greatest musical of all time including Andrew Lloyd Webber.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 19:34:59 GMT
It's all subjective and how you define 'groundbreaking'. According to u a winner of a Tony |
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 16, 2017 0:11:31 GMT
It would have probably won the Tony, no other musical from 1945 is still represented, which might give us a clue about their value/quality. Carousel was the most dramatic musical ever written by then and it's much deeper than Oklahoma! On the other hand, Follies lost the Tony to Two Gentlemen of Verona, a show that has practically disappeared from the radar, while Follies is considered one of the most iconic musicals ever. Pacific Overtures, which is (in my opinion) the most groundbreaking musical ever written, didn't manage to win the Tony, which went to another marvellous musical, A Chorus Line. But in 1975 the competition was tougher than in 1945, so who knows. Seeing this tonight, was a potent reminder of how much of a great musical this still is and I feel this would have beaten On The Town. This is the greatest Roger and Hammerstein musical with their best score, the dream ballet is gorgeous and the book even though misgoynist, is truly a great story and even though we should hate the protagonist we cannot help ourselves from having great sympathy for him, same way we do for the Phantom in the Phantom of the Opera. Seeing on a big scale for a 42 piece orchestra was lush, but this piece also stands up in a small scale revival as what happened in the Arcola and gained a host of 5 star reviews and better than the ENO reviews, so feel this would have pipped On The Town. So would have Carousel bagged the Tony? The Music Man won over West Side Story, so very strange things do happen. Also worth noting that Carousel did win best revival, many years later and you feel if the musical is good enough to win revival, it had to be good enough to win best musical. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 19:17:12 GMT
I would imagine Oklahoma! and Carousel would both have won the Tony, especially considering South Pacific, King & I and Sound of Music all did. John Raitt would've won Best Actor for his Billy Bigelow, and I'm sure Alfred Drake would've bagged one for his Curly. Not sure about Jan Clayton or Joan Roberts winning Lead Actress for their original turns in both shows, as ingenues were generally beaten by the more 'broad' types (Merman, Martin etc.) in that time. Interesting discussion though.
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