19,661 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 3, 2017 12:00:59 GMT
On Broadway, previews are all about rewriting the piece --- since rehearsal times are so (comparatively) short. Sad but true.
The success of re-worked or re-imagined shows are when they completely change the book, set, cast, song order etc as in the case of the Australian Love Never Dies or the recent Carrie at Southwark Playhouse. They didn’t work the first time but did given a complete overhaul and new creative team. I really want this to be a success! Great subject for a thread, so I’ve taken the liberty  www.theatreboard.co.uk/thread/3979/longest-previews |
|
7,054 posts
|
Post by Jon on Dec 3, 2017 12:16:31 GMT
Probably a stupid question but does anyone know why the NT is involved in producing this in the first place? Do Disney need the endorsement of the NT on the poster? Why aren't they producing this themselves like Lion King, Aladdin etc? They are usually so protective of their brand. It took Cam Mack ages to get the rights to produce Mary Poppins on stage. Poppins was different because Cameron Mackintosh had the stage rights but Disney had the film elements and songs. Disney do license things to theatre companies, Hunchback was done by La Jolla and Papermill and Freaky Friday was done by Signature. My guess is that The National approached Disney to get the film songs and film elements, it’s not a easy sell compared to say Poppins and Lion King |
|
1,217 posts
|
Post by nash16 on Dec 3, 2017 12:48:57 GMT
It's fairly obvious from all the above posts that the version first previewed is a work-in-progress While I take that comment on board, surely script editing, workshops and rehearsal time should be used for "work in progress". Once a show goes into the theatre technical issues take over the rehearsal time and previews should be used to "bed the show in" and do some minor tweaks/cuts/edits depending on audience reaction etc. not rewrite the piece! Common cancelled more than one preview to amend/totally rewrite its script, if I recall. They never seem to sort the script out in either the workshop stage or rehearsals at the National, and always end up with this. It's so frustrating that they never learn. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 13:10:42 GMT
On Broadway, previews are all about rewriting the piece --- since rehearsal times are so (comparatively) short. Sad but true. Has any show ever dramatically changed in previews? None that I can remember. The odd song removed, made shorter or text changed and that’s it. The go to example is War Horse which changed very much for the better, same with musicals like Passion (famously) or, sticking to the Sondheim theme, Forum and Follies (out of town, which is where this work was done before it became prohibitive for many shows). Billy Elliot was a bit of a mess etc, etc. As for audiences, you really do never know. If it was a science production teams wouldn’t need to make changes but what looks good before can often change in front of a paying audience, Seussical, Leap of Faith etc., all came out of that period with everyone saying how they were going to be massive and they flopped. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 0:55:56 GMT
|
|
1,210 posts
|
Post by musicalmarge on Dec 5, 2017 7:13:50 GMT
Pinocchio looks like a pantomime Prince. Not impressed. The one in Shrek the musical looks much better!
|
|
|
|
Post by Boob on Dec 5, 2017 7:53:44 GMT
Is this a desperate attempt to get the public to book before word of mouth and reviews get out? The NT usually only releases production shots close to opening night...
|
|
19,661 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 5, 2017 8:01:49 GMT
Will be tricky trying to explain to youngsters who the two huge humans in period costume operating that very small cricket puppet are...
“Mummy, is that Jiminy Cricket’s mummy and daddy?”
“No Darling, just try to imagine they’re not there”
|
|
378 posts
|
Post by Ade on Dec 5, 2017 8:12:23 GMT
Will be tricky trying to explain to youngsters who the two huge humans in period costume operating that very small cricket puppet are... “Mummy, is that Jiminy Cricket’s mummy and daddy?” “No Darling, just try to imagine they’re not there” Didn’t notice any kids having trouble the other day. But then before Jiminy appears there has been other puppetry that helps make it make sense. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 8:28:06 GMT
I go to a lot of kids theatre, and I've never heard kids in an audience talking like that. They understand better than one might imagine they do, or at least they instinctively understand what doesn't really need to be questioned. If a particular scene isn't immediately clear, you'll probably get a rippled chorus of "what's he doing?"s, but kids can cope with puppetry for heaven's sake.
|
|
19,661 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 5, 2017 8:35:02 GMT
Except that it’s not the cricket that’s supposed to be the puppet!
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 10:53:21 GMT
I rather like the layers of ‘puppets’ we’re seeing in these photos... the ones on strings, the ones operated with sticks by humans beside them, and the boy who really is a puppet who’s got no strings (and no sticks).
Children are taught to suspend their disbelief from the very early stages of their development. They will have no trouble buying into all of this, like many of us adults, just as the millions worldwide had no trouble buying into War Horse. We knew there were puppeteers there, but we believed that Joey was real, just as we admired the superhumans who could bring him to life. I remember a friend taking her daughter to it at the New London, and she fell under its spell. At the curtain call she turned to her mum and said, “We’re clapping bits of wood!” She got it! On both levels!
Of course, for this type of thing you have to want to go with it. I, for one, can’t wait to see it!
|
|
378 posts
|
Post by Ade on Dec 5, 2017 11:42:09 GMT
I do think they have been very clever with their use of puppetry in this. Don’t want to give anything away but they’ve taken a very different approach to it which wouldn’t be immediately obvious, and it’s probably one of the strongest parts of the production.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 18:26:33 GMT
Tonight's preview cancelled at short notice due to "technical difficulties during rehearsals" this afternoon.
|
|
76 posts
|
Post by finalperformance on Dec 5, 2017 19:36:29 GMT
Had tickets to Monday might and show CANCELLED
Had tickets to Tuesday night and mow that is CANCELLED I give up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 20:35:15 GMT
Oh gosh. Has Pinocchio been on the Malibu?
|
|
524 posts
|
Post by callum on Dec 5, 2017 21:44:11 GMT
Although I had my problems with the show seeing it on Saturday, none of them were particularly as a result of technical issues. Like I said, the show did need to temporarily be stopped for a few seconds and I don't think one special effect happened when it was supposed to, but there was nothing major. Definitely nothing to cancel two performances over. To be honest, I didn't even find it that technically ambitious, especially compared to Network for example, the other occupant of the Lyttleton at the moment.
I wonder if anyone has any inside information to spill. Or indeed whether the 'technical issues' is code for extensive script rewrites. I must admit that none of the 'jokes' landed brilliantly on Saturday, and audience response was muted throughout (hardly any oooh's, aaah's, awww's), although it's difficult to gauge reaction from sitting in Row B. Still, no one stood at the end. Definitely a tepid response compared to A Christmas Carol.
|
|
1,936 posts
|
Post by wickedgrin on Dec 6, 2017 12:24:21 GMT
Oh gosh. Has Pinocchio been on the Malibu? Ah, those "technical difficulties" again? If, as other posters have pointed out - the show is not that technical (although these shows can be more complex than appear on the surface) the cancellation of previews suggests some major work/rehearsing is going on to fix this show. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 12:31:42 GMT
The Monday preview wasn't scheduled in the Nov - Mar brochure, so it must have been cancelled at least several weeks in advance.
|
|
19,661 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 6, 2017 12:32:48 GMT
I have it on good authority that puppet Jiminy has got the boot and they’re doing it with an actor 🙂  |
|
4,172 posts
|
Post by anthony40 on Dec 6, 2017 12:51:22 GMT
Well I'm going tonight so (hopefully) it won't be cancelled.
|
|
1,217 posts
|
Post by nash16 on Dec 6, 2017 13:13:55 GMT
We were also there on Saturday. Feel very lucky now that we got to see a show at all. Second preview. The only thing that didn't work, as mentioned, was the nose in the second half. It worked fine in the first half, but you could see how easy it might be to fail, as the guy playing Pinocchio really has to press the fake nose to his face hard. We were Row M so got a good effect of the stage overall.
The problem with the show as it stands at the moment is that it's just not magical enough. For all the work that ha gone into the giant puppets, and the flying, etc. the script never allows the show to lift off the page. It also, in it's design, seems to be about four different shows. Connected set pieces that don't quite create a throughline, in the way say War Horse's design and puppet use did.
An awkward problem for the show is the puppets themselves. Jiminy was actually one that fared beter, so if they have got rid of it, that would be a shame. But the giant puppets used for Gepetto, the dead-mum figure, and the Coachman, all seem to big and wieldy. This is turn means they take an age to get on and off stage, slowing it all down and killing the pace. They also seem dead behind the eyes. So you stop looking at the puppet because there's little emotion there, and start looking at the actors instead.
The songs are well done, but it seems like there are only four of them in the entire 2hr 40minute show.
(A reason I would strongly suggest to offer that this thread actually be moved to the plays category.)
This is really not a musical. The only "big" number is "I've Got No Strings" at the end of the first half, repeated to death, and coming from nowhere, just seems too forced. Makes for great production photos, but sitting there watching it, we felt nothing. A lot of sound and lights.
Also, because they've chosen only to use so few songs, they're just repeated on loop throughout. It gets tiring.
The cast worked very hard. Most of the casting choices seem right. The only miscast was the actor playing the Fox who is playing it as some sort of drag act. Very bizarre. And not in the least threatening or scary, as he should be.
As has been mentioned, there are a lot of moments (blue flames galore) taken from Cursed Child, but again, these seem out of place with the stripped back prod values Bob Crowley seems to have gone for in much of his design.
Ultimately though, the story (as someone mentioned, just 88mins in the Disney cartoon) doesn't have the weight to sustain itself (or our attention) for 2hrs 40mins. The kids in the audience looked bored. Never a good sign. Only one boy near me was excited when Jiminy was on (credit to actress and puppeteer operating it). The script, aside from the only vibrant scene in the second half with Dawn Sedgewick from Our Ladies, never provides for the creators to give real action, pace, and adventure.
It is salvageable, but in the time left before press (a week and a half), if the Olivier shows this year were anything to go by, even hacking away and ammending said script, will not be enough.
I think Disney have watched it, and demanded that 2nd cancelled show. It all looks too weak and not exciting or joyous enough.
It will be interesting to hear from others here if they can get the magic and joy back into it, beyond the initial sighting of the big puppets, and lighting effects.
|
|
19,661 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 6, 2017 13:21:04 GMT
Well, despite my earlier flippancy about this I do genuinely think it’s a terrible shame and what sounds like a missed opportunity given Disney’s backing. So many people will be looking forward to it enourmously, especially kids, and are being disappointed. Let’s hope they get it back on some sort of track.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 13:31:39 GMT
The Monday preview was cancelled weeks ago, presumably to schedule intensive work after the first two previews at the weekend. Surely this gave people plenty of notice to reschedule their attendance, and took away the risk of cancelling the preview at very short notice if necessary.
Yesterday's preview is the only one so far to be cancelled at short notice, and it was at very short notice - less than a couple of hours - so the theatre must have been working towards performing it that night until almost the very last minute.
|
|
4,172 posts
|
Post by anthony40 on Dec 6, 2017 13:57:54 GMT
That's reassurring. In truth I have to be down at The National before the performance for a completely unrelated matter so guess will know within time.
|
|
