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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 7, 2017 23:58:55 GMT
Seeing the show tomorrow night. I'm excited to see what Price has done with it, and excited to hear Boe sing the score. It took me a long time and several viewings to appreciate Carousel, so I can understand perfectly why people find it objectionable.
Personally, I think it has an unabashedly anti-violence stance. Other characters, including the Heavenly Friend, are constantly condemning Billy for his violent tendencies, and ultimately, it is his downfall. That said, it's psychologically very complex. It does paint Billy as somewhat sympathetic, which is hard to swallow in contemporary times. I think he is sympathetic, in that he's a person who has been brought up by a society that teaches him that to be a man, he has to assert his dominance by hitting his wife. He doesn't know how else to express himself and deal with his emotions - thus, in a sense, he is a victim of the deep-seated toxic masculinity of society. Julie is even more of a victim, obviously, given that she's the one who actually gets hit. But in a way, she sees through his facade of strength and masculinity to see how insecure he is, and she loves the person who he is inside. It's his insecurities and weakness that ruin their lives, and also his chance at redemption, but he does some good by helping Louise to not to let her father's mistakes define her.
It's an incredibly complex story, and I think this complexity can easily be mistaken for a defense of Billy's behavior. On that note, I don't want to sound as if I am defending Billy's actions either, or saying that victims of domestic abuse should all stay with men who abuse them. But that IS what happens in Carousel, and it results in a fascinating and profoundly emotional story that paints both of these lovers as both sympathetic and deeply damaged.
I think that R&H actually did a very good job telling this story, but much like in South Pacific, they had a clear progressive message that has become muddled with shifting values over time. South Pacific has an incredibly anti-racist message, but the character of Bloody Mary is still a racist stereotype. Similarly, they just didn't have the language to deal with the themes of domestic abuse in Carousel that we do today.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 8, 2017 0:10:27 GMT
Well we know half the article is true, Jenkins gets the last bow... Oh I don't go till next week. But there's a video on Twitter of curtain call. Full standing ovation but Jenkins gets the final bow. Which I think is a disgrace. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 8, 2017 8:02:02 GMT
The poster for this looks so cheap - was it designed by the people who do the publicity for Bill Kenwright's touring productions? The one for Sunset was awful too, Glenn in that white jacket that looked like it came from M&S. No kimono, no turban... shoddy. |
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Post by danb on Apr 8, 2017 8:14:12 GMT
The poster for this looks so cheap - was it designed by the people who do the publicity for Bill Kenwright's touring productions? The one for Sunset was awful too, Glenn in that white jacket that looked like it came from M&S. No kimono, no turban... shoddy. Well she had you fooled then because it was from 'Bon Marche'! £16 so they bought two!!! |
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Post by shady23 on Apr 8, 2017 9:32:07 GMT
Even in the poser Katherine seems to be trying to edge in front of Alfie.
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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 8, 2017 22:29:54 GMT
Saw this tonight, and really enjoyed it. Lonny Price has a deep understanding of what this text is about at its core, and reflects that brilliantly in many decisions throughout the production. What they did with the Carousel Waltz was a revelation, a stroke of genius. The whole production was beautifully staged, beautifully sung, and beautifully danced.
This COULD have been an extraordinary production, if it weren't for the acting. Mr. Price was dealt a very poor hand with Alfie Boe and Katherine Jenkins*. They simply do not have the acting chops to match Price's level of depth. Jenkins was alright, but playing into the demure archetype rather than the actual character. Boe was worse in my opinion. He strutted around the stage like a toddler pretending to be a grown-up (which might have made for an interesting character choice, had it been intentional). He had very poor diction, and generally didn't seem to understand what he was saying. And believe it or not, this is coming from a fan of his. I loved him in Les Mis, and I think he has an absolutely gorgeous voice. But he was just the wrong person for this role. The supporting actors were better, but no one stood out as particularly memorable.
I hope this production has a future beyond the ENO, as I think it could be something special with competent actors in the leadings roles.
*btw, am I right in assuming that Price had little to no influence in casting Billy and Julie, as is often the case with star casting? I imagine the producers roped all 3 of them in together.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 23:29:10 GMT
Even in the poser Katherine seems to be trying to edge in front of Alfie. There's a Freudian slip if ever I saw it ;-) |
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2017 0:01:51 GMT
Saw this tonight, and really enjoyed it. Lonny Price has a deep understanding of what this text is about at its core, and reflects that brilliantly in many decisions throughout the production. What they did with the Carousel Waltz was a revelation, a stroke of genius. The whole production was beautifully staged, beautifully sung, and beautifully danced. This COULD have been an extraordinary production, if it weren't for the acting. Mr. Price was dealt a very poor hand with Alfie Boe and Katherine Jenkins*. They simply do not have the acting chops to match Price's level of depth. Jenkins was alright, but playing into the demure archetype rather than the actual character. Boe was worse in my opinion. He strutted around the stage like a toddler pretending to be a grown-up (which might have made for an interesting character choice, had it been intentional). He had very poor diction, and generally didn't seem to understand what he was saying. And believe it or not, this is coming from a fan of his. I loved him in Les Mis, and I think he has an absolutely gorgeous voice. But he was just the wrong person for this role. The supporting actors were better, but no one stood out as particularly memorable. I hope this production has a future beyond the ENO, as I think it could be something special with competent actors in the leadings roles. *btw, am I right in assuming that Price had little to no influence in casting Billy and Julie, as is often the case with star casting? I imagine the producers roped all 3 of them in together. A very deep and concise review. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 9, 2017 10:03:11 GMT
Saw the matinee yesterday, and agree with sondheimhats. Great semi-staging, great chorus, great Gavin Spokes, great Daniel Hagen, better than expected Katherine Jenkins, all brought down by a sullen charisma-free misfire of a Billy Bigelow. Spoilers follow. . . Carousel is one of my favourite musicals. Sure, it's got problematic elements, not least of which is the concept of a "kiss with a fist," the dubious concept of the pain of violence evaporating through love and mysticism. Yet Carousel has a primal power that resonates more profoundly than any other musical, if you tap into it. In essence, it mines the same vein of deep desires that religion does, in particular, Christianity. Like Jesus, Julie Jordan is not a mere person, which is why feminist analysis can't contain her. Like Jesus, Julie Jordan is a font of love; like Jesus, when abused, she "turns the other cheek," her love unconditional; like Jesus, she offers the ultimate: redemption. The idea that whoever we are, no matter how we were born, no matter what we've done, no matter what nature, no matter what nurture, we can have hope, that's what Jesus and Julie Jordan offer, that's the beautiful desperate fantasy that Rodgers and Hammerstein have coded into this musical, with Hammerstein's coupling of the broken conditional "if" of now, with the "golden chances" of hope in a fantasy future (where you can always free yourself from the Carousel of traps that life brutally delivers), while Rodgers butters Hammerstein's religious bread with the most seductive soaring emotional melodies ever written. As a secular person, this musical is the closest I get to religion, with the first two 5 star productions I saw (in the late nineties at the Ahmanson, and in 2014 at the Arcola) leaving me helplessly and deliriously emotional. This new version did NOT hit the spot. . . On the plus side, it's got a half-Hytner approach to the staging that really works. Where Hytner staged his Carousel Waltz in a pincer movement, with the horses riding on wheels below, as a gorgeous giant umbrella enfolded it from above, here the semi-staging necessitates the dropping of the umbrella, so Lonny Price instead expands his wheeled horses to such a large size that the Carousel is nonetheless stunning. Like "An American in Paris," the backdrop is primarily projections of impressionist paintings, albeit they are not quite as colourful and luscious as those in AAIP. Also on the plus side, Gavin Spokes sparkles with comic whoops, giggles, genuine depth of feeling, bringing his effortless charm to transform the typically dull Mr. Snow into such a compelling and amusing stage presence, that I delighted every time he showed up. His "When the Children are asleep" and "Geraniums in the Winder" were highlights. But an even bigger highlight, the biggest of the afternoon in fact, was Derek Hagen, as the amoral Jigger, leading the ensemble of "Blow High, Blow Low" with such vitality and passion that the audience cheered louder for him than for the principals. So thuggish and unrestrained was Hagen's bearing that it struck me he'd make a perfect Billy Bigelow! The Billy Bigelow we actually got was stillborn. It's not that Alfie Boe can't sing, he absolutely can, and at times, he does, wonderfuly. But he can't project the qualities that make Billy Bigelow Billy Bigelow! I remember Patrick Wilson playing Billy Bigelow years ago in Hytner's touring production, so animalistic, as quick to anger or to grin, terminally unpredictable, with such depth of feeling beneath, charm and charisma constantly swamped by bouts of "toxic masculinity," the hope of who he could be as evident as the hopelessness of who he was! The Perfect Billy Bigelow. There is no hope in Alfie Boe's Billy. No animalism. No spark. No grins. No volatility. No charm. No charisma. No sign of a wonderful person within, crushed by circumstance. Instead, there is sullenness and hair. So much hair. It's like Price wanted to take a shortcut to characterisation, and grew hair from all sides of Boe's face. I suppose, like Samson, this should make Boe's Bigelow toxically masculine. It doesn't. It makes him hairy. And worse, director and actor mistake unsmiling sullenness for masculinity. Wrong again, that's just lack of animation, which promotes a lack of audience involvement. In fact, the most personality that Boe evinced all afternoon was when he flubbed a line, asking if his "daughter was a boy or a girl?" then correcting himself by quipping "baby, even?" He got a big laugh. I do think the director has to take responsibility for some of the choices around Boe's Billy Bigelow, as I've seen Boe do great work, as Nanki Poo in The Mikado, in particular. Another wrong-headed choice the director makes is to allow too much of Boe's and Jenkin's singing to be directed at the audience. Billy and Julie are falling in love during "If I Love You," with EACH OTHER not with US! And the director also has to take responsibility for some of Katherine Jenkin's choices. For example, she raises her finger on the "if" of "If I love you" as if she were a tease who may withhold her love. No! The emphasis in Julie's phrase, "somehow I can see just exactly how I'd be if I loved you," is not on the "if," it is on the "loved." The "if" is there to emphasise that Julie doubts she even deserves love, the tragedy that the love she so desires to give and receive may remain an unachieved fantasy, it is not there for her to wag her finger like a scolding matron. My opinion, lol. Generally, however, Jenkins is good. I've seen the youtube clips that suggested she may struggle with the songs, and she doesn't. She thrives. In fact, with the caveat that sometimes she focuses so much on singing that she neglects performance, I thought her singing beautiful. And her performance is natural and convincing, by and large, though her range is limited. At one point she needs to cry, which requires more emotion than she can manage, so she turns away from the audience to cry with her back to us, but when she subsequently greets Boe's Billy, she fumbles her emotional transition as there is no sign in her beaming countenance that she has ever been crying at all. Still, for a first time actress, she does astonishingly well. As to the bows, Boe and Jenkins came down TOGETHER, stood together, and then Boe and Jenkins each took a separate bow, but with the other standing right next to them. This means the the bows have been modified after the scandal in a teacup about bowing order in the first show. For me, the real scandal is that Rodgers and Hammerstein didn't come rushing down from heaven for the final bow. They are the true stars! Overall, Rodgers' and Hammerstein's musical is so good, that coupled with good staging and lovely ensemble choruses, sparky players like Gavin Spokes and Derek Hagen, it overcomes it's cardboard Grizzly Adams of a Billy Bigelow. However, as an antidote to this productions' deficiencies, I have united Patrick Wilson's Billy Bigelow (from the Hytner touring production) and Gemma Sutton's saintly luminous Julie Jordan (from the recent Arcola show) to perform together in my dreams.  3 and a half stars |
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Post by martin1965 on Apr 9, 2017 10:22:53 GMT
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Post by wickedgrin on Apr 9, 2017 11:20:04 GMT
A great review (as usual) Steve - thanks.
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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 9, 2017 15:04:18 GMT
Well said, Steve . Seems like we felt much the same way about the production. I totally agree with you about tapping into that "primal power," as you so eloquently put it. I think many of R&H's other shows are more well-constructed than Carousel, but none of them achieve the same visceral emotion. There are some moments in which I feel like I can hear all the hopes, dreams, and mistakes of mankind in a single musical phrase. Just curious: why on earth is this considered/marketed as a "semi-staged" production? To me, there was nothing "semi" about this staging in the slightest. There entirety of the stage was utilized as playing space, plus there was a revolve, and additional set-pieces (not many, but enough). Plus it was fully costumed, fully lit, with whole dance sequences. I've seen Tony-winning Broadway productions that felt significantly more "semi-staged" than this. |
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Post by mallardo on Apr 9, 2017 15:36:38 GMT
Indeed, Steve, a brilliant analysis. It would be wonderful to have a Billy Bigelow with a glorious voice who could do full justice to the songs while being a powerful and sympathetic actor, but if it's an either/or situation I would always opt for the strong actor. I saw the Hytner production in New York with Michael Hayden as Billy and I well remember the criticism that was heaped upon him for, basically, not being John Raitt. He lacked that rich baritone sound that everyone seemed to feel was the essence of the role.
In fact he sang the role just fine - listen to him on the cast recording - but, much more importantly, he created a lost and vulnerable character, desperate to earn Julie's love and be worthy of her yet lacking the essential confidence in himself - resorting instead to violence. The vocal stars were in other roles in that production - Audra McDonald was Carrie! - but the show worked so brilliantly because of Hayden's performance.
If we, the audience, don't see in Billy what Julie sees, then Carousel makes no sense.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Apr 10, 2017 13:51:26 GMT
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 10, 2017 13:57:57 GMT
Is Jenkins carrying an iPad with the script on it?
That wig is hilllaarrrriouusss!!!
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Post by zak97 on Apr 10, 2017 13:59:49 GMT
I'm glad I've not booked - those photos have really put me off.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 10, 2017 14:27:34 GMT
I'm really looking forward to this on Saturday. Not the biggest fan of either of them if I'm honest, but nothing against them. It's Carousel as a show that I just adore, it's one of my favourites. I always say the two productions I wish I'd been alive to see were the NAtional's Carousel and Betty Buckley as Norma Desmond in London.
Looks a lot more than semi-staged though!
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Post by nrets001 on Apr 10, 2017 15:26:28 GMT
Haven't posted for a 'long long' time - but I saw it on Saturday matinee and the dancing was magnificent, the musica too, the staging was brilliant - Katherine Jenkins surprised me - although her accent dropped a bit, I thought she did a very good job, Alfie Boe was Alfie Boe, as wooden as a plank, strutting around the stage like a peacock just because he could - fluffed his lines. He can sing, but I'm not really keen on his voice. I went because it was a cheap seat in the balcony and I love Alex Young, she is my girl crush lol
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Post by Steve on Apr 10, 2017 18:01:13 GMT
There are some moments in which I feel like I can hear all the hopes, dreams, and mistakes of mankind in a single musical phrase. Just curious: why on earth is this considered/marketed as a "semi-staged" production? To me, there was nothing "semi" about this staging in the slightest. Sondheimhats, I agree about all the hopes, dreams and mistakes of mankind. Lovely description. I think they only describe it as "semi-staged" because there are no helicopters (like in Miss Saigon) or spaceships (like in "I Can't Sing") or other massive set constructions, so I agree. After all, AAIP also uses projections as a backdrop, and like that, this features lots of choreography and dance. I expect the description lingers from the producers' initial cost-saving philosophy adopted in their previous two productions that did at the Coliseum, Sweeney Todd and Sunset Boulevard, but that they have grown increasingly ambitious since then. if it's an either/or situation I would always opt for the strong actor. I saw the Hytner production in New York with Michael Hayden as Billy and I well remember the criticism that was heaped upon him for, basically, not being John Raitt. He lacked that rich baritone sound that everyone seemed to feel was the essence of the role. In fact he sang the role just fine - listen to him on the cast recording - but, much more importantly, he created a lost and vulnerable character, desperate to earn Julie's love and be worthy of her yet lacking the essential confidence in himself - resorting instead to violence. The vocal stars were in other roles in that production - Audra McDonald was Carrie! - but the show worked so brilliantly because of Hayden's performance. If we, the audience, don't see in Billy what Julie sees, then Carousel makes no sense. I agree completely, Mallardo. Acting is everything to make this really work. Otherwise it feels like a concert performance. I also regularly listen to the recording of the Broadway cast you saw, and I love it! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 22:41:36 GMT
Hands down the most disappointing and dull evening I've spent at the theatre in a long time. After Lonny Prince's stunning Sweeney & Sunset, I was so exicted for this show, but I have never been more bored in my life.
Dismal leading performances bring this beautiful show to a grinding halt. Gavin Spokes, Alex Young & Derek Hagen shine in their supporting roles, but Alfie and Katherine have 0 charisma or stage presence. Both as awkward and wooden as planks of wood. Sure, they can sing, but semi-staged does not mean semi-acted.
What a waste of Nicholas Lyndhurst who does the most with his seven or so lines...
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Post by dlevi on Apr 11, 2017 23:37:26 GMT
Was there tonight ( press night) The orchestra was great, all the supporting people were just fine, the choreography terrific ( especially the second act ballet) and visually it was Lonny Price's usual smart staging. But the two leads were bad. They have no connection with one another and the "bench" scene one of the best scenes ever written for a musical was dull. Neither of them can act well in the first place but this was rather agonizing. However, the most appalling thing was Mr Boe 's bow which he milked for what seemed like forever. If you've never seen Carousel it's worth it for the scale of the production. But if you have seen it, well you can give this one a miss.
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Post by wickedgrin on Apr 12, 2017 0:22:29 GMT
Even Mark Shenton did not like it - 3 stars in the stage and he likes everything!
It seems as we all suspected that the leads are simply wrong. It is musical theatre not opera and needs acting as well as singing. Huge amounts of availability for this as well, but the prices remain high!
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Post by ali973 on Apr 12, 2017 5:31:34 GMT
I saw pictures of it and it looks tacky as hell. Billy's wig is atrocious, and Julie looked like she stepped out of a M&S ad from the '80s. I also don't think I want to see a Carousel without an actual Carousel.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 12, 2017 6:44:50 GMT
Well this was bad. I went to the press night last night and left at the interval. What a naff production.
Katherine Jenkins wasn't terrible but Alfie Boe, good lord. What a useless lump of a performer. He sounds like a cliche of an 'opera' singer and his acting is as atrocious as his wig. His 'performance' consisted of him walking around with his arms out (attempting to be butch?). Such a spectacular piece of mis casting. The whole evening was thrown off by this so me and my partner didn't care to waste a whole evening watching it. I knew he'd be bad but this was impressive.
The male chorus dancing during Blow High (or whatever it's called) was some of the most excruciating I've seen in a long time. Always great comedy value seeing west end Wendy's try to be butch. And it's obvious attempt to try and be a showstopper was laughable.
Sound was terrible, the large orchestra sounding like it was being pumped out of someone's iPhone speaker.
Empty seats everywhere. On press night. The peak of celebrity there was Gok Wan, says it all.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2017 6:58:21 GMT
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