Follies

[viserys]

The age thing CAN apply: When Sunset Blvd first opened in the 90s, I was way too young to understand Norma Desmond and the feeling of having been forgotten/fading away unloved, etc. When I revisited the show many years later, it gripped me on a whole different level.

I don't think it applies to Follies so much though. It's more a question of mindset. As a happily single woman I get so irritated and annoyed by needy women who just can't be without a man, for whom the entire world revolves about having a man/keeping a man happy, etc. (and in addition vibe to people like me how weird and uncomplete we are). So the character of Sally and her screaming needyness just irritates me throughout and I find that the whole Sally-Buddy-thing takes up way too much room in a show that should be about showbiz memories and not a soapy relationship drama. But I understand that's me, I'm sure there are tons of women clutching their pearls and weeping for poor poor Sally and her unrequited love.

[orchestrator]

Aug 23, 2017 22:39:41 GMT theatre-turtle said:

Many of theatre dedicates are obsessed with SS (including myself), but there's a reason he's only had modest commercial success as compared with his prolific critical success.

I don’t know if it’s possible to measure critical success objectively and certainly ALW and Boubil and Schoenberg have had greater commercial success but I would guess that SS’s commercial success puts him in the top 5 of living Musical Theatre writers.

[dlevi]

Aug 24, 2017 9:27:09 GMT viserys said:

I find that the whole Sally-Buddy-thing takes up way too much room in a show that should be about showbiz memories and not a soapy relationship drama. But I understand that's me, I'm sure there are tons of women clutching their pearls and weeping for poor poor Sally and her unrequited love.

Actually Viserys, I think you've hit upon both the show's genius and its failings - I don't think it's a show about show biz memories, that's just the show's metaphor, for me it's about the death of the American dream ( way back in 1970) and the bright prospects of post WWII America. It's not just Sally and her unrequited love - it's everyone: Buddy's love for Sally, Ben's love for only himself, as well as Phyllis's unreturned love for Ben. Not to mention all the subsidiary characters who share their disappointments - Is there anyone in the show that isn't in some way or another disappointed with their lot in life? It's the unhappiest bunch of characters that's ever populated a musical.I don't think anyone watches the show and hopes that sally and ben get together. There are no relationships to root for. Remember the show was written in 1970 - the self-help generation was about to happen, it wasn't there as yet. In the post WW2 era in America , the role of women and was still defined by getting married and raising a family. At the time Follies was being written, women were just beginning to be able to have that choice ( with society's approval) about how to live their lives not in a man's shadow. The show biz stuff is there for contrast. Unfortunatly I think because people go to a show called "Follies" there is an expectation of some sort of escapist entertainment and while there is a parade of show stopping songs and performances, there is a bitterness there that can't be escaped.

[michalnowicki]

To anyone who already saw the previews: how are La Staunton's vocals?

[viserys]

Aug 24, 2017 10:10:11 GMT dlevi said:

Yea, I didn't - I mean, I mean I was immensely relieved that the show didn't go for a sappy happy ending.  I guess what I mean is - there are so many way to show disappointment, the death of the American Dream, whatever you want to call it.  Songs like "Broadway Baby" and "I'm still here" perfectly capture that with their cynicism and bittersweetness.   And I know that Sally's stuff is also called "Sally's Folly" so we know that Sondheim wrote her knowing that her love is foolish and isn't meant to be requited/fulfilled. 

I guess what I'm saying is that songs like "I'm still here" are unique to showbiz, a cynic anthem to making through the highs and lows of showbiz over decades, just like "Broadway Baby" expresses the (dashed) hopes of rising from the mass of struggling actors/dancers to "be in a show" and someday "have my name on a marquee". 

Whereas the Sally-Buddy-Phyllis-Ben in my opinion is banal and trite and could be from any of a hundred movies about people meeting again after a long time apart, pining for someone, rekindling an old flame, the stuff of hundreds of books and soap operas and whatever. Sure, Sondheim still manages to wrest a few outstanding moments from it, like "Could I leave you", but overall, I just don't want to see banal relationship stuff in a show that is about fading showbiz people. Not sure how to better express myself here and maybe it is MY wrong expectation of the show, but yea, that's what I struggle with.

Follies is brilliant for me as long as it really is about showbiz and the individual dancers and their careers and all. I'm also fine with them bringing up the subject of choosing the wrong partner or wondering what life had been like with the other partner as in "Too many mornings", but the love quadrangle just takes up too much space in my opinion.  But I'll wait and see how it all feels when I actually see the show live and see these characters come alive on stage. 

[Deleted]

As Obi Wan Kanobi said 'This is not the Follies musical that you are lookong for'

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 9:21:48 GMT @emicardiff said:

Aug 24, 2017 9:19:52 GMT alece10 said:

Very true. I've only got 5 stars because I prattle on not because of my intilectual input.

Let's be honest at least half of my posts that got me to 5* are whining about my day and insulting The Monkey. It's not because I'm the world's greatest Sondheim expert that's for sure!

The other half are you being one of the world's greatest Angels experts though, so you get away with it   Some of us (me) just ramble about nonsense more like 90% of the time.  

I entirely agree that people get different things out of a show at different ages, I just very much hope that I am still able to get something from this show despite being fairly young.  If I'm not able to, then I think that is a problem with the show, as shows should really have enough in them be able to appeal to different ages etc. 

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 11:59:15 GMT @posterj said:

Aug 24, 2017 9:21:48 GMT @emicardiff said:

Let's be honest at least half of my posts that got me to 5* are whining about my day and insulting The Monkey. It's not because I'm the world's greatest Sondheim expert that's for sure!

The other half are you being one of the world's greatest Angels experts though, so you get away with it   Some of us (me) just ramble about nonsense more like 90% of the time.  

I entirely agree that people get different things out of a show at different ages, I just very much hope that I am still able to get something from this show despite being fairly young.  If I'm not able to, then I think that is a problem with the show, as shows should really have enough in them be able to appeal to different ages etc. 

I saw the original London production as a virtual babe in arms in 1987 and the final Friday in 1989, when Julia MacKEnzie returned (with a very excited Cliff Richard sitting in front of us between a couple of what I can only describe as "clones"). I loved it from the off and it still fights for my Sondheim top spot along with Company and Into The Woods, so it has appealed to me from a very young age. Going tomorrow and cannot wait (wish there was an interval for a V&T though, sorry not sorry).

[princeton]

Aug 24, 2017 10:49:36 GMT viserys said:

But I'll wait and see how it all feels when I actually see the show live and see these characters come alive on stage

That's definitely the best way - hope you're not disappointed - but it's definitely not a show which everyone will like - even if they like elements of it.

It really isn't a show about fading showbiz people - or about showbiz and the individual dancers and their careers. The characters who sing Broadway Baby, I'm Still Here, Who's That Woman etc have very little dialogue or back story (I think I once read that Carlotta only has 9 lines other than I'm Still Here in the whole show)

In terms of age - I first saw it when I was the same age as the younger characters - I'm now exactly the same age as Ben Stone. Every decade I've seen it I've taken something different away. I definitely find it more moving the older I get - but I think that's very often the case. Merrily We Roll Along had the same effect.

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 13:24:20 GMT princeton said:

Aug 24, 2017 10:49:36 GMT viserys said:

But I'll wait and see how it all feels when I actually see the show live and see these characters come alive on stage

That's definitely the best way - hope you're not disappointed - but it's definitely not a show which everyone will like - even if they like elements of it.

It really isn't a show about fading showbiz people - or about showbiz and the individual dancers and their careers. The characters who sing Broadway Baby, I'm Still Here, Who's That Woman etc have very little dialogue or back story (I think I once read that Carlotta only has 9 lines other than I'm Still Here in the whole show)

In terms of age - I first saw it when I was the same age as the younger characters - I'm now exactly the same age as Ben Stone. Every decade I've seen it I've taken something different away. I definitely find it more moving the older I get - but I think that's very often the case. Merrily We Roll Along had the same effect.

The use of minor characters as 'turns' is something that people will struggle with if they don't know how the golden age revues were constructed - on, song, off - which Sondheim parodies (alongside the way that styles would vary remarkably, one minute operetta, next minute brash jazz age belting). All you need to know about them is in that song. 

[orchestrator]

Aug 24, 2017 13:56:05 GMT @cardinalpirelli said:

The use of minor characters as 'turns' is something that people will struggle with if they don't know how the golden age revues were constructed - on, song, off - which Sondheim parodies (alongside the way that styles would vary remarkably, one minute operetta, next minute brash jazz age belting). All you need to know about them is in that song. 

Well said! The switching of styles reminds me of Kurt Weill. I was thinking about how Sondheim must have seen at least some of the Kurt Weill Broadway shows first time round and was wondering how much of an influence they were.

[Deleted]

Yes can someone elaborate re Staunton's vocals. Have they lowered (even slightly?) Sally's keys for Buddy's Eyes and Too Many Mornings? Does she roar her way through the score like Lovett and Rose, or is she more nuanced as she was in Into the Woods (at least on the recording)? Also, how is Quast after all these years? He was the original George in Sunday in the Park way back in the 90s at the National, so it's a full-circle musical homecoming for both he and Staunton in a way (Staunton was in the chorus of the '82 Guys & Dolls etc)

[nrets001]

Aug 24, 2017 15:25:39 GMT @anthonyhope said:

Yes can someone elaborate re Staunton's vocals. Have they lowered (even slightly?) Sally's keys for Buddy's Eyes and Too Many Mornings? Does she roar her way through the score like Lovett and Rose, or is she more nuanced as she was in Into the Woods (at least on the recording)? Also, how is Quast after all these years? He was the original George in Sunday in the Park way back in the 90s at the National, so it's a full-circle musical homecoming for both he and Staunton in a way (Staunton was in the chorus of the '82 Guys & Dolls etc)

I was there last night - Individually the entire cast were magnificent but sadly for me I didn't actually enjoy the show - it felt long a drawn out and the tunes felt very repetitive.  Stauntons voice was incredible - in fact everyone that had a solo number were outstandingly good.  I have to say the highlight for me vocally was Tracie Bennett.  I'm not a musical aficionado, I just know what I like and know what I don't.  The lady sitting next to me actually fell asleep and there was a lot of wristwatch looking during the show.  I was in the back row of the stalls, brilliant view but you can see every flicker on the apple watch lol.    The show ran for almost 2.5hrs with no interval and the seats aren't that comfy, even the usher was fidgeting by the end. 

[Deleted]

Staunton certainly doesn't roar through this at all. Its very reserved and nuanced. I couldnt tell you if it was a lower key but she sounded great for the part. Obviously she doesn't have the same soprano that previous Sallly's had, but it still worked very well.

Phillip Quast still sounds the same. Its gorgeous to listen to.

[schuttep]

Aug 24, 2017 9:09:10 GMT @anthonyhope said:

Aug 24, 2017 8:58:53 GMT schuttep said:

According to Sondheim himself, last Tuesday, I'm Still Here is the biography of Joan Crawford.

Yep, he's stated this a number of times. 

("Then someone's mother, then you're camp. Then you career from career to career to career." 

Christina ("someone" lol)... Dunaway (absolutely)... Actress... Pepsi Cola...) 

Sondheimfreak - At the risk of interrupting this thread and challenging someone with a name that suggests you know better, I've been a fan of Sondheim for 40 years and (having heard him speak several times and even met him once) never heard him tell the Crawford story before. When has he mentioned this issue before?

[Deleted]

It'll be interesting to see what happens come awards time with the performers in this show. In the last Broadway revival, six of the main cast were nominated at least once at major award ceremonies: Danny Burstein (Buddy), Bernadette Peters (Sally), Jan Maxwell (Phyllis), Elaine Paige (Carlotta), Jayne Houdyshell (Hattie) & Ron Raines (Benjamin). So it does make one wonder if there will be at least three or four nominated from this production when the Olivier's come around.

[anthony40]

So Follies,

Caught this last night and I am so pleased that I did.

As a Sondheim affectionardo I had read and heard so much about Follies and despite being familiar with most of the songs -there were a few last night that I'd never hear of- it's one off a few of his shows I'd never seen before.

Bar the odd seat here and there, this was a full house.

The set is simple, but extremely effective. and the subtle lighting helped to create the mood, with those singing solos still being offered the spotlight.

This is a big cast! 37 on a deep stage plus a 21 piece orchestra.

And how (truly) wonderful to see both young and old on stage together. And just because they're older, do not underestimate their vocal ability.

Some of these ladies- again, young and old- were so elegant and graceful.

The costumes are just, simply, wonderful. The attention to detail did not go amiss. Be it lines on the ladies stocking, wide ties for the guys, head pieces, feather boa's, top hats, bow ties, braces and tails.

All leads are just perfect. As great as Imelda is (and she truly is), for me the stand outs were Philip Quast, Tracie Bennett and Daniel Dee.

Despite having seen her many times in different roles, I just keep forgetting how tiny Imedla is. At one point she kisses Philip Quast (trust me, I'm giving nothing away here in terms of spoilers) and he is literally head and shoulders above her. The top of her head I reckon is at his nipple level! And now that I truly understand the story, I think there maybe some mental health issues with this character- It Feels Like I'm Loosing My Mind.

Tracie Bennet is stick thin but perfect in this role. Equally excellent in her vocal and acting abilities. She really commands the stage, not overwhelmingly, but with little subtle gestures. Wearing a red dress, whenever she's on stage, even in a ensemble piece she's so dynamic that you're always watching her,

Philip Quast on the other has is a real presence. Despite his solid stature, vocally he's really strong and he displays real sensitivity and his character's storyline progresses.

Janie Dee for me was just excellent! I have also seen her in other roles, but she's quick witted, dry and completely embodies the role of Phyllis. And and she sings her song Leave You with such wit and venom, it's quite captivating.

For me the time flew by and I didn't even miss the intermission. I just sat there is awe, grinning that I was actually here, watching this play out in front of me.

The only thing that distracted me was the thought (hope) that this may be filmed, even just for prosperity's sake.

In terms of merchandise, there is Sondheim tots bags, tea towel, the script, mugs, and a poster.

Please, please, please do whatever you can to get a ticket for this.

I feel this is just one of those shows that people will be talking about for years to come.

[boybooshka]

Some interesting discussion on here, can't wait to see the show, have tickets for next Saturday

I have a bit of a strange relationship with it, on paper it seems machine tooled to be totally my cup of tea, i truly love Sondheim's work, and the themes of the show are ones which often grab me both intellectually and emotionally, but I've just never managed to fully connect with it. Admittedly I've only seen it once, and that was an am dram production, but even the various cast recordings of it, apart from the few songs i knew out of context of the show already, leave a little cold. I know even people with the broadest of tastes cant like everything, but on paper it does just seem so "my thing". I guess it this production doesn't win me over then nothing is ever going to and i just have to accept it's not a show for me.

[theatremadness]

Aug 24, 2017 17:21:42 GMT anthony40 said:

The only thing that distracted me was the thought (hope) that this may be filmed, even just for prosperity's sake.

Thanks for a really lovely review! Seeing it on Saturday (as I've said about 1000 times but oh well) but just to bring up this particular point and put your mind at ease, this is being 'properly' filmed (as in not just for prosperity) for NT Live, so there will be ways and means to get to see your wish!

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 17:21:42 GMT anthony40 said:

In terms of merchandise, there is Sondheim tots bags, tea towel, the script, mugs, and a poster.

An Imelda tea towel? How fab! The ironic joy of watching the help wash and dry my glasses that only moments before had ice clinking about in them with a tea towel covered in Imelda's face will probably never get old.

[ali973]

Aug 24, 2017 16:22:21 GMT schuttep said:

Aug 24, 2017 9:09:10 GMT @anthonyhope said:

Yep, he's stated this a number of times. 

("Then someone's mother, then you're camp. Then you career from career to career to career." 

Christina ("someone" lol)... Dunaway (absolutely)... Actress... Pepsi Cola...) 

Sondheimfreak - At the risk of interrupting this thread and challenging someone with a name that suggests you know better, I've been a fan of Sondheim for 40 years and (having heard him speak several times and even met him once) never heard him tell the Crawford story before. When has he mentioned this issue before?

Look up the interview Michael Riedel does with Elaine Paige and Ron Raines on Theatre Talk during the Broadway revival. Elaine Paige discusses I'm Still Here, and quotes Sondheim explaining the song to her, and how it's based on Crawford's life. And if you don't know, now you know. 

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 16:22:21 GMT schuttep said:

Aug 24, 2017 9:09:10 GMT @anthonyhope said:

Yep, he's stated this a number of times. 

("Then someone's mother, then you're camp. Then you career from career to career to career." 

Christina ("someone" lol)... Dunaway (absolutely)... Actress... Pepsi Cola...) 

Sondheimfreak - At the risk of interrupting this thread and challenging someone with a name that suggests you know better, I've been a fan of Sondheim for 40 years and (having heard him speak several times and even met him once) never heard him tell the Crawford story before. When has he mentioned this issue before?

It was mentioned that he wrote it inspired by her life in NY Times articles in 2001 ('Follies Shows It Too Is Still Here') and 2013 ('Send in the Cameras') and Elaine Paige mentioned on her interview on Theatre Talk that Sondheim had told her that that's what the song's inspiration was. It is also mentioned in several of the key biographies and musical discussions of Sondheim's work that I have. 

[abitoftap]

Aug 24, 2017 18:47:49 GMT ali973 said:

Aug 24, 2017 16:22:21 GMT schuttep said:

Sondheimfreak - At the risk of interrupting this thread and challenging someone with a name that suggests you know better, I've been a fan of Sondheim for 40 years and (having heard him speak several times and even met him once) never heard him tell the Crawford story before. When has he mentioned this issue before?

Look up the interview Michael Riedel does with Elaine Paige and Ron Raines on Theatre Talk during the Broadway revival. Elaine Paige discusses I'm Still Here, and quotes Sondheim explaining the song to her, and how it's based on Crawford's life. And if you don't know, now you know. 

or P. 236 of Ted Chapin's Everything Was Possible, describing the introduction of I'm Still Here to replace Fox Trot; "Steve later claimed Joan Crawford, not Yvonne, was his inspiration"

(The book may well have been mentioned already, but if not, it's a great read: Follies from rehearsal to Broadway back in 1971)

[michalnowicki]

Aug 24, 2017 15:55:07 GMT nrets001 said:

there was a lot of wristwatch looking during the show.

That's why I always turn my fitbit off when I enter any auditorium. When I clap, it goes into sleep mode.

[Deleted]

Aug 24, 2017 16:51:13 GMT danieljohnson14 said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens come awards time with the performers in this show. In the last Broadway revival, six of the main cast were nominated at least once at major award ceremonies: Danny Burstein (Buddy), Bernadette Peters (Sally), Jan Maxwell (Phyllis), Elaine Paige (Carlotta), Jayne Houdyshell (Hattie) & Ron Raines (Benjamin). So it does make one wonder if there will be at least three or four nominated from this production when the Olivier's come around.

Imelda has won the Best Actress in a Musical Olivier trophy three times all for Sondheim roles, and she also has a Supporting Actress in a Play title from the 80s. Quast has three Best Actor in a Musical Oliviers one of which was for a Sondheim, so both of them should be pretty safe bets for noms. I'd imagine Janie Dee and Tracie Bennett will go along for the ride - both have Oliviers for supporting musical actress (Bennett has two)... And the production will most likely score a few design noms and one for revival. It should do pretty well overall. Pretty much guaranteed. A Sondheim at the National.