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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 19:16:51 GMT
With Cinderella approaching, we all know the famous scene where the two Ugly Sisters ram their great plates of meat into the tiny, delicate slipper only to exclaim, "It fits! It fits!"
Only it doesn't, does it?
So is the case with lots of musicals... There's always a song that the composer slips in (maybe it just needed to go somewhere, maybe it had hung around long enough) but it jars a bit. It stops the flow. Seems at odds with everything else in the show. It actually doesn't fit.
You know the kind of thing... King Herod's Song (a previously composed song, rejected from the Eurovision Song Contest prelims, called Try It And See in its first incarnation) from Jesus Christ Superstar.
Over to you.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 4, 2016 19:22:31 GMT
Proud of Your Boy, in Aladdin.
I thought it must have been repurposed from a different musical and even googled it to find out what it was!
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Post by danb on Sept 4, 2016 19:34:55 GMT
'Greatest Star of All' from Sunset!
We've heard the tune sung better, we're already thrilled...why are you grinding everything to a six minute (HOUR!) halt with this dirge? It could so easily have been 90 seconds at the end of someone elses song.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 4, 2016 19:59:17 GMT
'Greatest Star of All' from Sunset! We've heard the tune sung better, we're already thrilled...why are you grinding everything to a six minute (HOUR!) halt with this dirge? It could so easily have been 90 seconds at the end of someone elses song. Oh my god. I can't believe this danb! Its one of the best bits of the entire show and completely sets us up the revelation at the end as to who Max is, and why he's obsessed with Norma. |
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Post by danb on Sept 4, 2016 20:22:55 GMT
Different strokes etc. Anything that gets in the way of my faves is surplus 😀
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Post by ptwest on Sept 4, 2016 21:12:04 GMT
For me - Master of the house.
Almost like they thought ok, the first 40 minutes have been a bit depressing, we need a crowd pleaser. It makes the Thenardiers comedy villains which is at odds with the rest of the show.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 21:28:38 GMT
Matilda's "Telly" is so random and awful.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 4, 2016 21:48:59 GMT
I love 'Telly'.
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Post by dippy on Sept 4, 2016 22:28:58 GMT
'Greatest Star of All' from Sunset! We've heard the tune sung better, we're already thrilled...why are you grinding everything to a six minute (HOUR!) halt with this dirge? It could so easily have been 90 seconds at the end of someone elses song. Took me a while to remember what "Greatest Star of All" is, then I remembered, it's because I dislike it so much I try to forget it exists! So slow, it seems to go on forever. This is a great topic and I am sure there are several songs I feel this way about but right now not a single one is popping into my head, I'll definitely be thinking about it though. |
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Post by viserys on Sept 5, 2016 6:31:30 GMT
For me it's Bui-Doi. It's just such a blatant obvious heart-string tugger with the wide-eyed-cute-orphans-movie and the lyrics dripping with pathos. If they had backbone, they would show the disfigured children still being born today as late results of Agent Orange in Vietnam.
Would to some extent agree on Master of the House - I don't really mind it, but it is a bit silly to present the Thenardiers as cartoonish villains compared to the otherwise serious tone of the show.
Another one is "The Adams Administration" in Hamilton, the last (and only) appearance of King George in Act Two. It's so very obvious that they felt the need to give him something to do in the second act despite him playing no role anymore in the newly independent USA. Wonder why they didn't double the King George part like they did with others, i.e. Lafayette in Act One becomes Jefferson in Act Two.
Ironically all the other examples I can think of are to do with shows on this side of the channel with culprits found in Elisabeth, Tanz der Vampire and Rebecca.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 6:54:18 GMT
It doesn't have to be a song you don't like necessarily...
I love Phantom if the Opera but I've always felt that the rock orchestration (not played live in the show) is at odds with the rest of the score. The melody obviously fits as it signifies the Phantom's presence and is heard as the Overture after the auction. But I've always wondered why it was given a "rock" feel when it clearly doesn't fit with the rest of the more "operatic" delivery.
(Lloyd Webber repeated this in Love Never Dies with The Beauty Underneath which also doesn't fit, in my opinion.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 7:00:29 GMT
Take What You Got from Kinky Boots is the epitome of "why on earth did that song get put in?"
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Post by kathryn on Sept 5, 2016 7:04:10 GMT
Oh, what was the name of the song the football coach sang in Bend It Like Beckham? I remember many of us during the run saying it was superfluous.
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Post by viserys on Sept 5, 2016 7:06:09 GMT
yea I didn't understand it as such. For example "Confessions of a vampire" is by miles the best song in the excreable "Tanz der Vampire" musical ("Die unstillbare Gier" in its more popular German version) - the tone is just completely off for the show. You get 90 minutes of banal silly goofy comedy and suddenly the great vampire turns up and belts out a big dramatic tune on his insatiable appetite for blood and a bit of double meaning on today's greed for money, power and whatnot. The song is great, just wrong for the show.
As for The Beauty Underneath, it jars to some extent, but I love it and somehow it fits the whole steampunk theme of LND for me.
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Post by Stasia on Sept 5, 2016 7:30:56 GMT
yea I didn't understand it as such. For example "Confessions of a vampire" is by miles the best song in the excreable "Tanz der Vampire" musical ("Die unstillbare Gier" in its more popular German version) - the tone is just completely off for the show. You get 90 minutes of banal silly goofy comedy and suddenly the great vampire turns up and belts out a big dramatic tune on his insatiable appetite for blood and a bit of double meaning on today's greed for money, power and whatnot. The song is great, just wrong for the show. As for The Beauty Underneath, it jars to some extent, but I love it and somehow it fits the whole steampunk theme of LND for me. I don't think that Gier in TdV is THAT dramatic. Von Crolock tells lies in it! He is an unreliable storyteller at the moment, and he plays the part of a struggling person, not really struggles. I discussed that with a few actors who played that part in Russia, and they have a very good logical explanation of how it fits in and explains the character. My personal "why is that here" song is "Take what you've got" in Kinky Boots. |
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Post by viserys on Sept 5, 2016 7:52:24 GMT
yea I didn't understand it as such. For example "Confessions of a vampire" is by miles the best song in the excreable "Tanz der Vampire" musical ("Die unstillbare Gier" in its more popular German version) - the tone is just completely off for the show. You get 90 minutes of banal silly goofy comedy and suddenly the great vampire turns up and belts out a big dramatic tune on his insatiable appetite for blood and a bit of double meaning on today's greed for money, power and whatnot. The song is great, just wrong for the show. As for The Beauty Underneath, it jars to some extent, but I love it and somehow it fits the whole steampunk theme of LND for me. I don't think that Gier in TdV is THAT dramatic. Von Crolock tells lies in it! He is an unreliable storyteller at the moment, and he plays the part of a struggling person, not really struggles. I discussed that with a few actors who played that part in Russia, and they have a very good logical explanation of how it fits in and explains the character. My personal "why is that here" song is "Take what you've got" in Kinky Boots. Ah, that's interesting. I wonder if the Russians played it a bit "lighter" and more comedic then, which would make a lot of sense. Here it was always played very seriously and heavy-handed, hence why I felt it was off. But then it's been ages since I saw it. Maybe if some fringe theatre in London takes heart someday to try it (hey, Southwark tackled other famous flops like Carrie!) I may see it again in English, away from the German hype and fan-adulation. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 5, 2016 8:02:08 GMT
Does anyone understand the dramatic purpose of Phantom's opening scene and overture - surely it's just for the special effects as it has nothing to do with the story
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 8:11:17 GMT
Does anyone understand the dramatic purpose of Phantom's opening scene and overture - surely it's just for the special effects as it has nothing to do with the story It's meant to represent a scene somewhere way after the events of the main action. An auction selling off old bits and pieces from the Opera House. We are introduced to various bits and pieces that will feature in the main story such as the model of the monkey with his cymbals. Raoul is now seen as an old man, so he obviously lives to tell the tale while others aren't present. When the chandelier sparks into life, it journeys upwards and we journey back, and layer upon layer of the Opera House, represented by all the different drapes, are peeled back to take us to the past where the main action begins. It's reported as a myth by the auctioneer but then we see that it really did happen. It's just a dramatic device, nothing more, nothing less. It works though, doesn't it? I wonder if they ever contemplated a return to the auction right at the very end, just to frame the whole piece...? (It didn't work nearly as well in Love Never Dies, where the format was copied almost exactly.) |
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Post by Stasia on Sept 5, 2016 9:04:41 GMT
I don't think that Gier in TdV is THAT dramatic. Von Crolock tells lies in it! He is an unreliable storyteller at the moment, and he plays the part of a struggling person, not really struggles. I discussed that with a few actors who played that part in Russia, and they have a very good logical explanation of how it fits in and explains the character. My personal "why is that here" song is "Take what you've got" in Kinky Boots. Ah, that's interesting. I wonder if the Russians played it a bit "lighter" and more comedic then, which would make a lot of sense. Here it was always played very seriously and heavy-handed, hence why I felt it was off. But then it's been ages since I saw it. Maybe if some fringe theatre in London takes heart someday to try it (hey, Southwark tackled other famous flops like Carrie!) I may see it again in English, away from the German hype and fan-adulation. I guess it depends more on the text. For instance, Ivan Ozhoging, who played the part both in Russia and in Germany, had few different interpretation of that song that changed through these 3 years he's been playing the part, and it obviously was different in 2 languages. Oh, and by the way, TdV is on in Moscow from November till April, so if anyone decides to visit, give me a shout... |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 5, 2016 16:37:46 GMT
Does anyone understand the dramatic purpose of Phantom's opening scene and overture - surely it's just for the special effects as it has nothing to do with the story It's meant to represent a scene somewhere way after the events of the main action. An auction selling off old bits and pieces from the Opera House. We are introduced to various bits and pieces that will feature in the main story such as the model of the monkey with his cymbals. Raoul is now seen as an old man, so he obviously lives to tell the tale while others aren't present. When the chandelier sparks into life, it journeys upwards and we journey back, and layer upon layer of the Opera House, represented by all the different drapes, are peeled back to take us to the past where the main action begins. It's reported as a myth by the auctioneer but then we see that it really did happen. It's just a dramatic device, nothing more, nothing less. It works though, doesn't it? I wonder if they ever contemplated a return to the auction right at the very end, just to frame the whole piece...? (It didn't work nearly as well in Love Never Dies, where the format was copied almost exactly.) Don't they come back to the present at the end of the film, with a gloved hand laying a red rose on the grave of Christine Daae? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 16:44:39 GMT
Yes, you're right, but Someone was referring directly to the stage version, I thought.
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Post by mrtumnus on Sept 5, 2016 17:04:35 GMT
Another Suitcase In Another Hall from Evita.
Only purpose I can see was to give Barbara Dickson a song.
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Post by nash16 on Sept 5, 2016 18:09:56 GMT
The Medical Song in GROUNDHOG DAY is great, but doesn't fit within the show as it feels like a stand-alone Minchin number.
Add to that the Act 2 opener in GD too.
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Post by richey on Sept 5, 2016 18:18:13 GMT
Another Suitcase In Another Hall from Evita. Only purpose I can see was to give Barbara Dickson a song. I always thought that made more sense in the film where Eva sings it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 18:22:21 GMT
Good Morning Starshine from Hair... Always seems a bit sweet in comparison with most of the others. Maybe not.
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