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Post by zak97 on Apr 12, 2021 19:09:36 GMT
New chandelier is up. At least the frame of it unless Cameron is resorting to plastic Drury Lane is it not? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 19:18:10 GMT
Imagine that. The ultimate troll*, ALW relocating the redundant Ruthie 2 to be star of the show in the Theatre Royal Drury Lane refurb!
*adjective not noun
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 12, 2021 19:49:52 GMT
I suppose ENO should be looking at their production scale and considering vast reductions as well give that apparently it's not commercially viable anymore, right? The state of ENO's finances and the scale at which it should operate have been bones of contention in the opera world for decades! |
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Post by westendboy on Apr 12, 2021 19:56:39 GMT
New chandelier is up. At least the frame of it unless Cameron is resorting to plastic Drury Lane is it not? It has that Drury Lane look. Also there is an extra circle at the top, whilst HMT has only three, if I'm correct? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 19:56:58 GMT
I suppose ENO should be looking at their production scale and considering vast reductions as well give that apparently it's not commercially viable anymore, right? The state of ENO's finances and the scale at which it should operate have been bones of contention in the opera world for decades! Well, even more credit where it's due then for the pursuit of excellence instead of watering itself down for the sake of contention. At least some Producers still have it in them! |
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Post by David J on Apr 12, 2021 20:27:42 GMT
OH YES. I saw the photo on Facebook and it was cropped. Didn't see those 2 other chandeliers. I thought you were saving money Cameron?  |
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Post by singingbird on Apr 12, 2021 20:36:54 GMT
I think this misses the point somewhat. I understand that finances are important and that theatre is a business, but Phantom is a tried and tested show that has already made its instigators a fortune. If any show could afford a large orchestra, it's this one. More importantly, this is a show set in a 19th Century opera house and aims to represent a relatively realistic (if extremely heightened and romanticised) version of such. The music was composed with this in mind. The sound worlds of Wicked, Hamilton and many (most?) other shows can happily work with small orchestras. Some shows would sound absurd with an orchestra of the Phantom's size. Phantom would sound absurd without one. I'm afraid as far as I am concerned you are the one missing the point. The vast majority of people who see Phantom will not be musicians. If they hear a 14-strong orchestra then that is what they will associate with the show. They won't feel like they are missing out as they won't know anything else. Plus if many of those who have seen it before haven't seen it for as long as it has been since I was last there (about a decade), they probably won't remember how it used to be. And I suspect most people won't have a clue what a 19th Century opera house is supposed to sound like. As I have classical music experience I do, but I am well aware I am in the minority. Some people may listen to the cast recording but many won't, and many who do won't know it in enough detail to realise they are missing something. There are a lot of people on this thread assuming most audience members are as detail-oriented as the superfans, when they just aren't. And if you think business decisions stop the moment a show breaks even or makes a profit, then you are incredibly commercially naive. Historical success is completely irrelevant when the rent and running costs still have to be paid now. And profit breeds want for more profit. Simple as that. You are entitled to have a romanticised view of Phantom and its operation, as you clearly do, but you need to understand that romanticism and commercial reality do not go together, no matter how much anyone wants them to. I certainly wouldn't argue that historical commercial success makes a difference to contemporary running costs. I was simply pointing out that this is a show that is (presumably) still fully financially viable; indeed, more than that, a show that is extremely successful and profitable. This is something almost completely unique within musical theatre, where almost no shows come close to making any kind of profit. So if any show can afford a 27-piece orchestra, the type of orchestra that the score was written for, then it would be this one. ALW is on record as being passionate, to the point of obsession, about how his shows sound. I recall something in his autobiography about how he wasn't as keen on Cats on Broadway (as compared to the West End) because the orchestrations had to be scaled up for a larger orchestra due to union regulations at the time, which wasn't what he had in mind when he composed it. Every musical is conceived with a particular sound in mind. That sound can be reinvented or altered for new productions (the best production of Sweeny Todd I ever saw was accompanied by a single piano). But I don't believe that is what is happening here. It's not an artistic decision, and if it's not artistic, and not necessary to make the show financially viable, then it's unfortunate it is happening at all. On the other hand, if this literally makes the difference between the show running and closing then I understand, although it's sad. I also think it is risky to say that people won't notice the difference. Many won't. Others will, even if they're not sure what it is that is making that difference. You never know who you have in the audience. A lot of Phantom's appeal is in its opulence - the richness of its emotions, its costumes, its narrative, its sound. It is also why some people don't like it and find it overblown and sickly. That richness is the show's essential character. I think that taking pride in one's work is never something to be underestimated. One should always try to make things the best they can be, and the best you can make them with the resources you have available. I often think of a story I heard about the Statue of Liberty. I was told that the person who designed it took as much care with the top view of her head as they did with every other aspect of it. They had no idea that, one day, people would be able to fly over it and see what they had done - as far as they knew the top was invisible. But it mattered to them to make it as perfect as they could. Profit is important. Being financially viable is vital. But if something is profitable, and can afford to go the extra mile to be as special as it can be, I don't think it is overly romantic to hope that those responsible will treat it with love, respect and personal pride - and ensure that it is the very best production it can be. If it was my show, that's what I would want. |
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Post by scarpia on Apr 12, 2021 22:55:44 GMT
Profit is important. Being financially viable is vital. But if something is profitable, and can afford to go the extra mile to be as special as it can be, I don't think it is overly romantic to hope that those responsible will treat it with love, respect and personal pride - and ensure that it is the very best production it can be. If it was my show, that's what I would want. I think it's worth pointing out that they're already making a LOT of savings by setting up a new production, having officially closed the original. The original investors have been cut out, and Hal Prince's estate will no longer receive the 4% of the gross that Prince cleverly negotiated after he got rehired (a huge sum for any director). Not to mention the savings with reducing the number of stagehands etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 22:56:04 GMT
Sounds great, can’t wait 👀
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 13, 2021 0:07:31 GMT
Phantom is the biggest grossing piece of entertainment IN THE WORLD. And they are making cuts to save money?
And so it begins.
Also that theatre is Drury Lane and not Her Majesties. It must be an old photo as the refurb is virtually finished now.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 13, 2021 0:26:52 GMT
The difference between a 14 piece orchestra and 27 piece orchestra is like drinking tea out of a porcelain mug or a nice bone china cup and saucer. Well you can drink out of a porcelain mug in your local Wimpy.
If the London Les Mis went to New York, they would laugh it out of town.
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Post by sph on Apr 13, 2021 2:01:21 GMT
Yes, it's a shame when a show gets cut back because you feel like you're getting an inferior product. You can't enjoy it at its fullest.
If your favourite chocolate bar changed its recipe it'd still sell, it would taste similar enough to keep people happy, but it wouldn't be quite as good as it was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 6:33:17 GMT
If the London Les Mis went to New York, they would laugh it out of town. Errr, it did, in 2014. And received three Tony nominations. It also ran a lot longer than the 2006 Broadway revival of the original production. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 13, 2021 6:36:35 GMT
Yes, it's a shame when a show gets cut back because you feel like you're getting an inferior product. You can't enjoy it at its fullest. If your favourite chocolate bar changed its recipe it'd still sell, it would taste similar enough to keep people happy, but it wouldn't be quite as good as it was. I’m still not over what they did to the shortcake biscuit in Twix. Damn you Mars Confectionery Inc. Curse you. |
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Post by ceebee on Apr 13, 2021 7:02:52 GMT
Yes, it's a shame when a show gets cut back because you feel like you're getting an inferior product. You can't enjoy it at its fullest. If your favourite chocolate bar changed its recipe it'd still sell, it would taste similar enough to keep people happy, but it wouldn't be quite as good as it was. I’m still not over what they did to the shortcake biscuit in Twix. Damn you Mars Confectionery Inc. Curse you. Most criminal was the change to the fluffy nougat interior of the humble Milky Way from brown to white. I've never forgiven them for it, even though it was marketed as the "brilliant and original Milky Way" and prices still went up year after year. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Apr 13, 2021 9:40:07 GMT
With just a horn in the brass section it's going to sound very non menacing
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Post by zahidf on Apr 13, 2021 9:48:34 GMT
This is disgusting
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Post by danb on Apr 13, 2021 10:15:06 GMT
One suspects he’ll have even less of a chance after tweeting about it so publicly.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 13, 2021 10:21:16 GMT
And still no news on the reassigning of tickets that were prebooked. Who is managing this shambles?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 10:36:08 GMT
One suspects he’ll have even less of a chance after tweeting about it so publicly. What would you suggest then? He's been ignored for a year. There's no job to go back to. Support is a one way ticket it seems in theatre land. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 10:51:51 GMT
One suspects he’ll have even less of a chance after tweeting about it so publicly. What would you suggest then? He's been ignored for a year. There's no job to go back to. Support is a one way ticket it seems in theatre land. God that's so sad to see the whole orchestra do that zoom and not realise that was the last time they'd play together albeit virtually. This is what I spoke of there are real life people behind what made Phantom so successful and contributed to it's longevity. |
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Post by scarpia on Apr 13, 2021 11:05:02 GMT
It's heartbreaking. Kudos to the percussionist for speaking out. Many won't for obvious reasons. Such is the top-heavy, hierarchical nature of the business. John Barrowman at least called the move "disgusting" because he's big enough that he can say what he likes. I suspect Cameron won't want the veterans to return lest they start talking about how much better it all used to be...
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Post by scarpia on Apr 13, 2021 11:10:10 GMT
If the London Les Mis went to New York, they would laugh it out of town. Errr, it did, in 2014. And received three Tony nominations. It also ran a lot longer than the 2006 Broadway revival of the original production. And it had a bigger orchestra... |
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Post by danb on Apr 13, 2021 11:44:16 GMT
One suspects he’ll have even less of a chance after tweeting about it so publicly. What would you suggest then? He's been ignored for a year. There's no job to go back to. Support is a one way ticket it seems in theatre land. I just wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds is all. It isn’t their only production in the west end so chances are that their paths would cross again. |
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 13, 2021 12:08:54 GMT
What would you suggest then? He's been ignored for a year. There's no job to go back to. Support is a one way ticket it seems in theatre land. I just wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds is all. It isn’t their only production in the west end so chances are that their paths would cross again. But isn't that the point? The hand isn't feeding anymore. Why should he suck up to a producer who doesn't care one iota about him or his livelihood? |
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