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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 15:44:13 GMT
As if Cameron and Andrew really want people bothering them at this time. Considering Mackintosh and Lloyd Webber seem to be on opposing sides on the production, I imagine this is exactly the kind of reaction and reassurance Lloyd Webber would want, actually. |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 15:52:21 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if ALW makes a statement on twitter about the show's closure tomorrow, or maybe even today. remind the higher-ups that many fans feel passionately about this and will be paying attention to their every move regarding the production. Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:52:32 GMT
As if Cameron and Andrew really want people bothering them at this time. If we don't pester them, especially at this time, they'll take it as a sign no one cares about the production (and its workings, artistry, legacy) and irrevocably change it. |
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 15:54:09 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if ALW makes a statement on twitter about the show's closure tomorrow, or maybe even today. remind the higher-ups that many fans feel passionately about this and will be paying attention to their every move regarding the production. Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress. Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 28, 2020 15:58:51 GMT
Fans did the same thing when it was announced that he was making changes to Les Mis, with even a former cast member (I don't recall how) being vocal about the changes. But this didn't stop Mackintosh from replacing the original, so who says that the Phantom petition will stop him from doing the same? I know the Phantom petition has more signatures than the Les Mis one, but I digress. Yes, even Trevor Nunn and John Napier spoke out against it, but just because that failed to make an impact doesn't mean I'll be in any way discouraged from making a lot of noise... especially since Hal and Maria and Gillian aren't around to defend their show any more. |
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Post by princeton on Jul 28, 2020 16:01:41 GMT
This is not an announcement about the future of the Phantom of the Opera. It is an ego-driven attempt by CM to put himself at the centre of the story and, I suspect, largely prompted by the positive coverage which ALW received last week. In the article he spins ALW's efforts into an example of what can't happen rather than being about finding solutions; he disses all other theatre owners, producers and arguably SOLT by saying that DMT has treated its customers well by making early decisions and keeping them realistically informed (ah yes - what happened to working alongside other SOLT members rather than going it alone - bet those working on Mormon and DEH love the information flow); and he seems to suggest that any productions already taking bookings for April are making a terrible mistake (tell that to Frozen and Cinderella - but then maybe that's the point - new shows which aren't in his theatres or produced by him). Compare how many times he uses "I", "me" and "mine" - to similar editorials by Sonia Friedman, James Graham, Julian Bird et al.
Make no mistake Phantom of the Opera will be back when theatres reopen - in a version which Cameron Mackintosh wants - and he will already have decided what that is - no amount of petitions will change his view. This is all about fuelling the monster - and making sure that people don't forget that he's very important - nay the most important.
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 16:06:13 GMT
Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though. The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 28, 2020 16:20:41 GMT
Eh? Nothing has been said that we didn’t already know. Phantom has been temporarily closed for a refit and will reopen in 2021 when the work has been completed. Move along. Nothing to see here. Saying it has “permanently” closed was something we did not know before. The 1986 version has permanently closed. We knew that. We saw the set being removed from the building last week. What will be returning is the 2021 rebuild which will I’m sure be just as good if not better, and fit to run for the next 20 years. |
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Jul 28, 2020 16:22:52 GMT
Well, it helps that ALW wants to retain the original production also, I guess. Not sure what Schönberg's view on Les Mis was, though. The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition. Is it a way of giving Les Mis the indisputable title of longest-running WE musical? |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 16:24:48 GMT
The thing is with Phantom, it's a co-production with RUG (Really Useful Group), which is owned by ALW. But in the ES article, Mackintosh specifically stated that "Andrew and I have had to sadly permanently shut down our London and UK touring productions of The Phantom of the Opera", which would suggest that ALW had to agree to the closure as well, even if he didn't want to. In the case of Les Mis, Schönberg and Boublil were simply the composers/lyricists and didn't own either of the two companies involved with the original. Also take into account that Cameron Mackintosh Ltd is more powerful than the RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company), meaning that really Mackintosh could do whatever he wants to Les Mis without much opposition. Is it a way of giving Les Mis the indisputable title of longest-running WE musical? I believe it's a way for Mackintosh to avoid giving any royalties to the original creatives. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 16:46:27 GMT
Is it a way of giving Les Mis the indisputable title of longest-running WE musical? I believe it's a way for Mackintosh to avoid giving any royalties to the original creatives. This is what is being said on Twitter: |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 16:55:13 GMT
I believe it's a way for Mackintosh to avoid giving any royalties to the original creatives. This is what is being said on Twitter: Someone responded to this tweet asking whether or not it will be the 2012 version or the 2020 version, best click on the tweet link to see the response |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 16:59:16 GMT
I saw that but didn't understand the response. Connor's production will not be going into Her Majesty's -- as far as I'm aware, that was junked and neither fans nor ALW liked it very much. More likely (which I suspected as soon as they closed the UK tour) is that they'll put the one from earlier this year in. It will be criminal if they call it 'the brilliant original' though...
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Post by Jon on Jul 28, 2020 17:05:14 GMT
I saw that but didn't understand the response. Connor's production will not be going into Her Majesty's -- as far as I'm aware, that was junked and neither fans nor ALW liked it very much. More likely (which I suspected as soon as they closed the UK tour) is that they'll put the one from earlier this year in. It will be criminal if they call it 'the brilliant original' though... The Laurence Connor production was touring in the US but I suspect it'll be replaced by the tour that debuted earlier in the year in the UK when things reopen. |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 17:08:25 GMT
I saw that but didn't understand the response. Connor's production will not be going into Her Majesty's -- as far as I'm aware, that was junked and neither fans nor ALW liked it very much. More likely (which I suspected as soon as they closed the UK tour) is that they'll put the one from earlier this year in. It will be criminal if they call it 'the brilliant original' though... I think the Laurence Connor version was touring in the US, but everywhere else was either the original or a replica of the original. I've not seen the 2020 touring version, so I can't really say how similar or how different it is to the original. All I can gather from what people on this thread have said is that the chandelier doesn't come down, there's no angel being lowered, etc. But as for bringing this touring version in, didn't they do something similar when Les Mis moved from the Palace to the Queens, by using a set used for a touring version and with some revisions made to the staging and choreography? Yet people did still refer to it as the original? Unless the original creatives (Trevor Nunn, John Caird, John Napier, etc) were involved? |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 17:17:37 GMT
I saw that but didn't understand the response. Connor's production will not be going into Her Majesty's -- as far as I'm aware, that was junked and neither fans nor ALW liked it very much. More likely (which I suspected as soon as they closed the UK tour) is that they'll put the one from earlier this year in. It will be criminal if they call it 'the brilliant original' though... The Laurence Connor production was touring in the US but I suspect it'll be replaced by the tour that debuted earlier in the year in the UK when things reopen. The Connor tour in the US had closed before the coronavirus shutdown. Think its last performance was in February. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 28, 2020 17:47:39 GMT
This is all so shady.
So he’s saying Her Majesties Will now be available to other shows will it? Rubbish. He will put a 3rd rate touring version of Phantom in there as soon as he can. This is damage limitation.
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Post by isabel on Jul 28, 2020 17:49:24 GMT
It’s Just been on Sky News about the closure
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2,245 posts
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Post by richey on Jul 28, 2020 17:56:29 GMT
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Post by Seriously on Jul 28, 2020 18:01:57 GMT
When Phantom opened there was an error in the musicians' contracts which meant it's been pretty much impossible to fire anyone for the last 30 years. And as technology has progressed, a lot of backstage jobs are pretty redundant, but Cameron kept having to pay people to do the, and their pension contributions.
This is the perfect opportunity to stream line the show, and call time on a few people who have been earning a lot of money for very little work. 30 years of productions around the world has shown them how to do it in a more streamlined cost-effective way. In theatre, jobs come to and end... and people move on. I'm sure Phantom will be back, with all the same songs, and all the bits we love. It'll just be the die-hard fans who'll moan about tiny little changes here and there. And let's face it, they never pay full price anyway.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 28, 2020 18:05:15 GMT
Mission accomplished. You’ll not be able to get a ticket when it reopens next year. ALW and CM are playing blinders with this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 18:20:41 GMT
Reading the actual article in the Evening Standard it does't come across as "It's gone forever". To me it reads as more of a legal repositioning to put everything in a known state rather than have it all suspended in uncertainty. But he doesn't half come across as petulant. What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business? |
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Post by Jon on Jul 28, 2020 18:41:06 GMT
Reading the actual article in the Evening Standard it does't come across as "It's gone forever". To me it reads as more of a legal repositioning to put everything in a known state rather than have it all suspended in uncertainty. But he doesn't half come across as petulant. What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business? He comes across as defeatist unlike Andrew Lloyd Webber who is spending his own money to prove the theatres can reopen. |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 19:01:16 GMT
What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business? It's almost as if he's trying to take the heat off himself. Sure there are plenty of things that the government should be taken into account for their handling of the pandemic, but it's not their fault that there has to be social distancing in theatres. This is how I read the article; "Oh no, socially distanced audiences won't bring me millions of pounds. I'll just close down Phantom to save myself some cash" |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 19:04:00 GMT
Reading the actual article in the Evening Standard it does't come across as "It's gone forever". To me it reads as more of a legal repositioning to put everything in a known state rather than have it all suspended in uncertainty. But he doesn't half come across as petulant. What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business? He comes across as defeatist unlike Andrew Lloyd Webber who is spending his own money to prove the theatres can reopen. I guess this just shows that ALW cares more about the arts than Mackintosh ever will. |
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