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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 14:19:32 GMT
I'm reasonably sure that they'll replace the chandelier, regardless of cost as it's the most iconic bit of staging. The entire engineering needs to be re-done and the system replaced, not a small job but I would put money on that being their priority. They obviously couldn't drop the chandelier at the Royal Albert Hall but the pyrotechnics were stunning, just imagine what an updated and improved chandelier drop would look like.
The angel is very unlikely to be replaced.
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 14:21:44 GMT
Also, quickly...people might not be aware but LWT doesn't own Her Majesty's. It's leased off the Crown Estate.
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Post by Jon on Jun 22, 2020 14:34:34 GMT
Also, quickly...people might not be aware but LWT doesn't own Her Majesty's. It's leased off the Crown Estate. I'm guessing that the case for Theatre Royal Haymarket as well. I don't think it's a bad thing for shows to be refreshed, there are many long running shows in the West End and on tour that would benefit from one like Blood Brothers for example and many shows do make changes throughout their run, The Lion King had many changes for example |
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 14:46:15 GMT
Theatre Royal Haymarket is owned by a company called Access Entertainment. They have their fingers in many pies, including real estate.
So, no. It's owned & operated by the same company.
I think Her Majesty's is the only one owned by the Crown. I don't think they have anything to do with the day to day running but they have a say in refurbishment.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 22, 2020 14:48:37 GMT
I haven’t heard of the chandelier being condemned before, however a chandelier few Several pyrotechnics going off in a whimper, doesn’t cut the mustard. The chandelier needs to come crashing down ‘behold to bring down the chandelier,’ this is what makes Phantom iconic, now possible to have several pyrotechnics, so the audience looks up, then the Chandelier comes down.
With the enforced shut down.
A great starting point would be to do a complete refurbishment of the front of house.
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 22, 2020 15:51:02 GMT
The angel is very unlikely to be replaced. Is this your personal hypothesis based on job expertise, or do you have contacts involved in the production? Same question re your previous statement "Did you know that just prior to lockdown the chandelier was condemned? The mechanics are damaged, old and it was very dangerous." Because you are presenting this as a fact and not as your own evaluation of the chandelier's condition. This isn't an attack, just curious. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 22, 2020 16:09:51 GMT
The Polish chandelier crash has always been quite fun:
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 16:15:57 GMT
I am not involved in Phantom in any way shape or form, LWT or DMT. Anything I say is speculation. I'm not speaking for anyone involved.
The angel has been an issue for a long time, largely due to safety issues. Replacing the chandelier is a big expense, I would imagine if anything is cut & restaged it'll be the angel. The international touring version doesn't fly the angel.
The chandelier is a known issue. It's old, repairs are on top of previous repairs which themselves were only meant as patch jobs. It wasn't designed to be used 8 shows a week for 34yrs. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to suggest cutting the chandelier. I'm sure it's been previously replaced but I'm talking about the actual automation.
If they do add some video elements it'd be nice to see a Plan B involving video rather than the lighting effect they currently use when they can't use the chandelier.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 16:36:34 GMT
Probably not the best phrased question I’ve ever posed lol. I suppose what I’m really asking is contractually, what influence does he have - as composer, for example, has he signed over rights to stage the work indefinitely? It has been going for decades after all. If he evicted the show, could they take it elsewhere without his permission? I was unaware he was a co-producer, so yes, he has quite a bit of power as that too. But then it raises the question - who has more power to go against what are presumably his wishes? Because that’s the implication of his tweet: that he’s to do battle and could lose. It's a very good question - and this is something that has always fascinated me about the production of Phantom. Are they 50/50 in their producers share/rights (am not sure what the correct term is!) or does Cameron have a larger share? I have no idea of the answer - but reading massively between the lines, I do wonder if Cameron is in control. Certainly all the advertising in London has always shared space with Les Mis and it has always had more of a CM flavour. Also the fact that it was lumped in with Cameron's "off until 2021" announcement would imply this. Especially given that unlike the other shows, it's not even in a DMT theatre. And ALW has been fairly public in expressing his hopes that theatre will be up and running again in the Autumn. 24.2% to ALW* (* information is freely available online if you know where to look, before Admin question) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 16:47:35 GMT
It's a very good question - and this is something that has always fascinated me about the production of Phantom. Are they 50/50 in their producers share/rights (am not sure what the correct term is!) or does Cameron have a larger share? I have no idea of the answer - but reading massively between the lines, I do wonder if Cameron is in control. Certainly all the advertising in London has always shared space with Les Mis and it has always had more of a CM flavour. Also the fact that it was lumped in with Cameron's "off until 2021" announcement would imply this. Especially given that unlike the other shows, it's not even in a DMT theatre. And ALW has been fairly public in expressing his hopes that theatre will be up and running again in the Autumn. 24.2% to ALW* (* information is freely available online if you know where to look, before Admin question) Ahhh thanks - suspected was lower than CM, but didn't think would be less than 1/4. Very interesting! |
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 22, 2020 16:57:20 GMT
Surely technology and materials will have improved since 1986... for them to fabricate an angel 2.0 and chandelier 2.0, if they were really dedicated to upgrading the original. Any alternate or Plan B for these 2 scenes would be deviating from Maria's design for the show, methinks.
Don't think I can accept a chandelier that needs to be "rested" every now and then, lol- it's basically a character in its own right, even understudies are real people, not a video projection...
I remain in hope that the producers know better now than to touch the angel scene- it was the biggest change in the UK Tour, replaced by a Pegasus statue, making it a "reinvented staging of the original", which it's finally being acknowledged as
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 16:59:15 GMT
24.2% to ALW* (* information is freely available online if you know where to look, before Admin question) Ahhh thanks - suspected was lower than CM, but didn't think would be less than 1/4. Very interesting! To clarify, that doesn't mean CM holds the remaining 75.8%. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 17:00:22 GMT
Surely technology and materials will have improved since 1986... for them to fabricate an angel 2.0 and chandelier 2.0, if they were really dedicated to upgrading the original. Any alternate or Plan B for these 2 scenes would be deviating from Maria's design for the show, methinks. Don't think I can accept a chandelier that needs to be "rested" every now and then, lol- it's basically a character in its own right, even understudies are real people, not a video projection... I remain in hope that the producers know better now than to touch the angel scene- it was the biggest change in the UK Tour, replaced by a Pegasus statue, making it a "reinvented staging of the original", which it's finally being acknowledged as Chandelier 3.0. Technically. |
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 17:07:17 GMT
There's been many performances of Phantom where the chandelier has failed and they've used the plan b. It happens. Unfortunately the lighting effect is a bit naff...
The safety concerns with the angel are more to do with putting the performer at risk.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 22, 2020 17:10:37 GMT
Angel scene
Is that the scene where the Phantom is lowered down from the fake proscenium arch, whilst listing to Christine and Raoul sing on the roof of the Paris Opera House?
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 22, 2020 17:48:31 GMT
I’d much rather this show just close. It’s been on too long and only appeals to tourists. However- if it is going to stay I hope it’s the version mentioned where the set is being upgraded- automated etc and not a Cameron Les Mis situation where he brings in an inferior version just so he can stop paying the originals the royalties.
This Phantom production and design (both set and costumes) is Iconic and cannot be bettered.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 18:36:04 GMT
I’d much rather this show just close. It’s been on too long and only appeals to tourists. However- if it is going to stay I hope it’s the version mentioned where the set is being upgraded- automated etc and not a Cameron Les Mis situation where he brings in an inferior version just so he can stop paying the originals the royalties. This Phantom production and design (both set and costumes) is Iconic and cannot be bettered. God forbid London appeases the tourists! (when the come back anyway) |
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Post by Oleanna on Jun 22, 2020 19:12:59 GMT
I’d much rather this show just close. It’s been on too long and only appeals to tourists. However- if it is going to stay I hope it’s the version mentioned where the set is being upgraded- automated etc and not a Cameron Les Mis situation where he brings in an inferior version just so he can stop paying the originals the royalties. This Phantom production and design (both set and costumes) is Iconic and cannot be bettered. I think the comments so far, even just on this thread, disprove that theory. |
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Post by scarpia on Jun 22, 2020 19:33:28 GMT
I think I read previously somewhere that the decision-making power re Phantom, as between CM and RUG, was 40/60, but I haven't verified that and I could be remembering incorrectly.
That aside, CM only has the licensing rights in the UK, US and Australia. So no productions outside of those countries are ever produced by his company - it's always either RUG and a local production company (e.g. Shiki in Japan or Stage Entertainment in Germany) or, in the case of the Basel production, RUG acting alone.
The idea that ALW doesn't have the decision-making power here does not ring true to me. For instance, ALW overruled Cameron with the choice of director (Cameron wanted Trevor Nunn rather than Hal Prince), and both Hal Prince and ALW overruled Mackintosh with the choice of theatre on Broadway (Mackintosh wanted the Martin Beck, now known as the Al Hirschfeld, whereas ALW wanted the Majestic - and got it).
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Post by scarpia on Jun 22, 2020 19:40:23 GMT
I am not involved in Phantom in any way shape or form, LWT or DMT. Anything I say is speculation. I'm not speaking for anyone involved. The angel has been an issue for a long time, largely due to safety issues. Replacing the chandelier is a big expense, I would imagine if anything is cut & restaged it'll be the angel. The international touring version doesn't fly the angel. The chandelier is a known issue. It's old, repairs are on top of previous repairs which themselves were only meant as patch jobs. It wasn't designed to be used 8 shows a week for 34yrs. I sincerely doubt anyone is going to suggest cutting the chandelier. I'm sure it's been previously replaced but I'm talking about the actual automation. If they do add some video elements it'd be nice to see a Plan B involving video rather than the lighting effect they currently use when they can't use the chandelier. I have nothing against replacing the Angel and the chandelier with safe versions, but they shouldn't be redesigned to be worse/cheaper. The recent UK tour that billed itself incorrectly as the "Brilliant Original" did away with the Angel altogether. They were even wanting to get rid of it in the days of the early tours in the 1990s, but Björnson campaigned against that as it was her favourite set piece. Unfortunately, she's no longer here (and neither is Prince, who will have had the integrity to maintain her vision). They'd better not replace the chandelier with that pathetic-looking thing that appeared in Laurence Connor's lame production and that ended up appearing in the most recent tour, despite it not remotely looking like the chandelier in the Paris Opera House or Maria Björnson's design. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 22, 2020 22:16:40 GMT
I’d much rather this show just close. It’s been on too long and only appeals to tourists. However- if it is going to stay I hope it’s the version mentioned where the set is being upgraded- automated etc and not a Cameron Les Mis situation where he brings in an inferior version just so he can stop paying the originals the royalties. This Phantom production and design (both set and costumes) is Iconic and cannot be bettered. God forbid London appeases the tourists! (when the come back anyway) It’s always playing in loads of other cities all across the world so I think London could do without it! I’d love to see a new show in that theatre personally. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 22, 2020 22:17:36 GMT
I’d much rather this show just close. It’s been on too long and only appeals to tourists. However- if it is going to stay I hope it’s the version mentioned where the set is being upgraded- automated etc and not a Cameron Les Mis situation where he brings in an inferior version just so he can stop paying the originals the royalties. This Phantom production and design (both set and costumes) is Iconic and cannot be bettered. I think the comments so far, even just on this thread, disprove that theory. Which bit? A few fans on a theatre forum don’t make up the majority of this shows audience. |
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Post by 42ndBlvd on Jun 22, 2020 23:11:50 GMT
God forbid London appeases the tourists! (when the come back anyway) It’s always playing in loads of other cities all across the world so I think London could do without it! I’d love to see a new show in that theatre personally. How about we both meet up and throw hands eh? But seriously god forbid should Phantom ever close, I will chain myself to the theatre as the phantom in full costume! |
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Post by Jon on Jun 23, 2020 0:00:56 GMT
I reckon it'll close on Broadway first before London.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 1:12:55 GMT
I reckon it'll close on Broadway first before London. I’d agree - it wasn’t doing too well in grosses before the enforced closure. |
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