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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 19, 2020 18:20:18 GMT
When I saw the original production on Broadway in 1996 (I think..) it was looking very tired then. Yes, the original designs were spectacular. But the production has been creaky for a long time.
A proper refresh is necessary - though, of course, the chosen director may be completely inappropriate and go for something that cheapens the quality for no good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 21:20:51 GMT
I was really disappointed when I saw the show in London - the seat was not cheap but the sight lines were dreadful and I don't recall being particularly excited by the production.
I loved it on tour though, could see everything even from the cheap seats and was fully absorbed from the start.
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 19, 2020 22:11:21 GMT
@poster J I had the same experience for the tour, everything felt tack sharp, crystal clear, etc. in Leicester *but* that difference I believe is due to the theatre and not the production itself, perhaps necessitating a seating redesign and sound & lighting upgrade for Her Maj’s, but DEFINITELY not the total replacement of the existing production with the tour one?!
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Post by scarpia on Jun 19, 2020 22:38:14 GMT
I would much rather the entire show closed and was revived with a brand new first-rate production than destroying a superb production by watering it down and cheapening it, which sounds like Mackintosh’s intention here (and would not be unprecedented given what he did to Les Mis over the years, savagely cutting and reducing and cheapening Nunn and Caird’s superb original and then replacing it with a second-rate substitute to save him some £)..
Brexit-voting Cameron Mackintosh seems to have proved he’s no better than Bill Kenwright these days...the time of knowing seeing one of his shows meant high quality and no shortcuts are sadly gone. Hal Prince has not even been gone a year and yet Mackintosh is taking an axe to his legacy. Prince, incidentally would rightly have been horrified by this idea and wouldn’t have stood for it.
I also must say that some of the comments in this thread are unfair — I too have seen dud performances over the years but they do not invalidate what is surely one of the classiest and spectacular productions ever. A few dud performances can be tweaked; that doesn’t mean the set should be cheapened and half the orchestra (some of whom have been with the show since opening night) fired.
I hope ALW has the sense and artistic integrity to save this flagship production, but maybe saying “artistic integrity” in the same sentence as ALW is asking too much.
It would be a tragedy if the final performance of this icon has already played, and we have no professionally shot commercially releasable capture of it.
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Post by theatregod on Jun 19, 2020 23:34:45 GMT
It will be likely that with such small pits in these old theatres, smaller bands will be the future due to social distancing, cost and hearing lost (we all know the person who sued the opera orchestra because he was deafened by the Brass)
..... we sadly won’t ever see shows on a big scale ever again!! Regarding music!
And the report about the MP talking about musicals that have signings that don’t sing.... Kenwright shows have been doing this for 15 years! All tracked, it’s Smoke and Magic people, and now, nearly just smoke. :-(
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Post by andrew on Jun 19, 2020 23:58:03 GMT
Amazing news. The show (and the theatre) desperately needed a breath of fresh air and hopefully that will be it. It's obviously sad for the people involved not getting a proper goodbye and for those who wanted to see that production one last time not to have the chance, but it's a great timing otherwise.
Now let the Regent's Park Open Air Team team have fun with it and keep ALW socially distant.
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Post by duncan on Jun 20, 2020 8:32:25 GMT
Brexit-voting Cameron Mackintosh I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, just makes you look small and petty. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 20, 2020 10:31:15 GMT
Since everyone here seems to know something about something- any clue if the resident/associate director will stay? To me that will mean if some semblance of the original show might be reworked into whatever's new, or a complete swapping out of anything that used to be.
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Post by 10642 on Jun 20, 2020 10:31:37 GMT
Realistically if this is the new 2020 UK tour version, it is the best we can hope for rather than Laurence Connor’s restaged version from 2010. Hope it is a combination of the new versions of the original sets but retaining the angel and chandelier. Gutting about the orchestra but hopefully Andrew is able to retain some sort of creative control unlike Schonberg who was steam rolled by Cameron over Les Mis. Really hope this isn’t the end for legends like Philip Griffiths but would be good to see some of the UK tour cast get a second chance with the show
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jun 20, 2020 14:04:13 GMT
A pity, especially for the orchestra. I think it's the only West End show with a harp in the pit, I'd hate to see it go.
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Post by scarpia on Jun 20, 2020 19:29:47 GMT
Brexit-voting Cameron Mackintosh I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, just makes you look small and petty. Greed, hubris, and tax-avoidance - which is driving downscaling this. Mackintosh is a billionaire. Yet his recent behaviour even before the pandemic just speaks to greed. The only reason he's replaced Miz with that new production is to save him costs of sharing royalties with the RSC and the royalties of the original creatives. He tried to buy out John Napier's intellectual property; Napier said no. So Cameron, not content with paying royalties of his cash cow, throws the whole show under the bus and then has the gall to call it better than ever, when that's clearly not the case. No doubt with half the orchestra gone and pathetic new scenery instead of Maria Björnson's classy and opulent originals, he'll claim Phantom has never been better. John Barrowman puts its well: [tweet] [/tweet] Hal Prince is barely cold in his grave, and he's already rolling in it. |
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42ndBlvd
Swing
I'll be back where I was born to be
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Post by 42ndBlvd on Jun 20, 2020 21:43:23 GMT
I wonder if it was been in the planning even before the pandemic. As iconic as these productions are, after 34 years, it will start to look and feel its age. I understand refurbishing old sets, stage machinery etc. The stage floor definitely needs to be replaced, it's looking rather worn. But how can you replace the set design of phantom Of The Opera, theres literally no "improvements" you could make to the original. It's absolutely ingenious how the set compliments the plot and the house it's self such as the fake opera boxes lining up with the real boxes of Her Majesty's. The curtains move up to reveal sets like Christine's dressing room and the masquerade stairs almost like turning the chapter of a book. The set should never be touched, leave it as it is. Btw I'm not arguing with you! Just adding to your conversation. |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jun 22, 2020 7:25:00 GMT
I'm sure they started planning it the minute Hal Prince passed away. He was the one protecting his creation, otherwise ALW would long have started to meddle with it like most of his shows...
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Post by 141920grm on Jun 22, 2020 8:48:44 GMT
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Post by richey on Jun 22, 2020 8:56:25 GMT
But that petition is inaccurate as it gives the impression they want to bring in the Laurence Conner version |
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Post by 10642 on Jun 22, 2020 9:42:39 GMT
Looks like ALW heard us! Here’s hoping he can persudae Cameron
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Post by steve10086 on Jun 22, 2020 10:00:08 GMT
Very shocked that ALW posted that on Twitter. Has the makings of a very public spat between him and CM.
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 10:26:14 GMT
I think you're all misunderstanding what is going to be happening.
They're not redesigning the show in the sense it's going to be a different set, they're updating it.
The candelabras which rise from the stage? Currently on hand winches. Very heavy, clunky. Difficult to use. Wobble and get stuck often. Requires several people to operate. In fact, the majority of the set is hand winches or pushed on which makes it quite dangerous.
Rebuilding the stage to include modern automation is better all round. Yes, you drop crew members but did you know the first time round Miss Saigon had a stage crew of 30? The modern production had about 5.
Lighting. The rig is generic, it's old and rarely maintained (once a year because refocusing a genetic rig can take days so you want to limit the amount of touching you do). Moving to a modern rig gives much great flexibility, maintenance becomes weekly and the quality of the lighting overall improves. This also requires new dimmers, which is an essential improvement.
They've completely rebuilt the set and lighting systems for the international tour, it looks amazing.
Did you know that just prior to lockdown the chandelier was condemned? The mechanics are damaged, old and it was very dangerous.
Introducing improved lighting, new sets which importantly are safe and adding modern video elements is a very good thing.
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Post by steve10086 on Jun 22, 2020 10:35:15 GMT
I think you're all misunderstanding what is going to be happening. They're not redesigning the show in the sense it's going to be a different set, they're updating it. The candelabras which rise from the stage? Currently on hand winches. Very heavy, clunky. Difficult to use. Wobble and get stuck often. Requires several people to operate. In fact, the majority of the set is hand winches or pushed on which makes it quite dangerous. Rebuilding the stage to include modern automation is better all round. Yes, you drop crew members but did you know the first time round Miss Saigon had a stage crew of 30? The modern production had about 5. Lighting. The rig is generic, it's old and rarely maintained (once a year because refocusing a genetic rig can take days so you want to limit the amount of touching you do). Moving to a modern rig gives much great flexibility, maintenance becomes weekly and the quality of the lighting overall improves. This also requires new dimmers, which is an essential improvement. They've completely rebuilt the set and lighting systems for the international tour, it looks amazing. Did you know that just prior to lockdown the chandelier was condemned? The mechanics are damaged, old and it was very dangerous. Introducing improved lighting, new sets which importantly are safe and adding modern video elements is a very good thing. All sounds pretty reasonable, but doesn’t explain ALW’s tweet. Why didn’t he just say “ Please believe me. When the Phantom returns it will be the brilliant original”. If he has to do “everything in his power” to ensure that, it really implies there is another force involved that isn’t looking to achieve quite the same outcome. |
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Post by richey on Jun 22, 2020 10:36:11 GMT
sorry have to disgaree. How on earth is adding modern video elements a 'very good thing'? I want to see a proper set. The curtains, the angel and the chandelier are intrinsic parts of the set and should not be replaced
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Post by steve10086 on Jun 22, 2020 10:39:18 GMT
sorry have to disgaree. How on earth is adding modern video elements a 'very good thing'? I want to see a proper set. The curtains, the angel and the chandelier are intrinsic parts of the set and should not be replaced Actually, I didn’t spot that line about video effects! What video effects?!? How does Phantom need video effects? All I can imagine is the lightning bolts?! |
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 10:44:26 GMT
I have no idea if they are adding video elements, it was an example of things they could be doing.
Video doesn't have to replace set, I'm taking about effects not projection (eg the video effect with the time turner in Harry Potter). Personally, I loved what they did in the 25th anniversary production with the chandelier.
Of course ALW had to say something because everyone is panicking about the show being replaced when the reality is they're updating. If Phantom were to reopen in it's current state tomorrow, there would be no chandelier.
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Post by theatremole on Jun 22, 2020 10:53:17 GMT
Just to say that I do not work for LWT or DMT. I have no special insider knowledge about what they are or are not doing.
I'm a very unemployed production electrician.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 11:06:58 GMT
I think you're all misunderstanding what is going to be happening. They're not redesigning the show in the sense it's going to be a different set, they're updating it. The candelabras which rise from the stage? Currently on hand winches. Very heavy, clunky. Difficult to use. Wobble and get stuck often. Requires several people to operate. In fact, the majority of the set is hand winches or pushed on which makes it quite dangerous. Rebuilding the stage to include modern automation is better all round. Yes, you drop crew members but did you know the first time round Miss Saigon had a stage crew of 30? The modern production had about 5. Lighting. The rig is generic, it's old and rarely maintained (once a year because refocusing a genetic rig can take days so you want to limit the amount of touching you do). Moving to a modern rig gives much great flexibility, maintenance becomes weekly and the quality of the lighting overall improves. This also requires new dimmers, which is an essential improvement. They've completely rebuilt the set and lighting systems for the international tour, it looks amazing. Did you know that just prior to lockdown the chandelier was condemned? The mechanics are damaged, old and it was very dangerous. Introducing improved lighting, new sets which importantly are safe and adding modern video elements is a very good thing. This makes good sense and is consistent with how I was imagining the situation. Thanks for posting! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2020 11:17:42 GMT
I’m all for updates, but the fact ALW basically tweeted he’s having to use his ‘power’ to get the original production back in place is sort of worrying. There’s updates and then there’s a complete redesign.
Phantom isn’t a perfect production but it is iconic. After so many years I don’t think reducing costs is a bad thing and it makes sense to use an enforced period of closure to get everything sorted. But it’s an important piece of musical theatre history and I don’t see anything wrong with maintaining the original production: what would losing it provide exactly?
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