Theatre audience demographics

[BurlyBeaR]

OK so I was reading the Miss Saigon thread and the discussion about racism where Hamilton is also brought to the mix. I wanted to ask for some views about something I've been wondering about but it's wider than those two shows, or musicals generally so I thought I'd start a new thread. I hope we can do this without arguing or anyone getting offended 

So, it is a simple fact that when I go to the theatre here in Manchester the majority of the audience is white. The age and type of the audience is more dependant on the show but the audience is always predominantly white. And I don't mean just in terms of the "majority" I mean that black or asian people are noticeable by their absence. It is impossible not to notice this. 

When I go to the theatre in London im usually so excited about seeing what I've travelled to see that I can't really remember noticing the mix of people as much. (I did notice at Book Of Mormon that there were more men without women and, prepare yourselves for some stereotyping, I don't think a lot of those guys were gay but that's not what this thread is about). 

So my question is whether my experience in Manchester is the same all over the country. One of our members made a comment the other day that Leicester is a very sophisticated city, culturally, which I know is very true. So is that diversity reflected in theatre audiences? And picking up from the expanded discussion in the Miss Saigon thread, what is the usual demographic of the audience for shows on Broadway and is the audience for Hamilton any different? And if Hamilton is attracting a black audience will the same happen when it comes to the West End?

Finally if we conclude that theatre is dominated by white audiences, we presumably have to accept that what is shown in theatres is influenced by that. It that a cause of the problem or a symptom of it? 

[kathryn]

It can depend on the show - Bend It Like Beckham did have a more diverse audience than usual, the night I went.

[49thand8th]

Aug 8, 2016 17:21:28 GMT @theatremonkey said:

London audiences are the same as Manchester, BB. More overseas visitors, perhaps, but even they are not often Black or Asian.

Aug 8, 2016 17:12:28 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

It that a cause of the problem or a symptom of it? 

A bit of both. At the risk of being controversial myself, I'd suggest that there is a broad feeling in some aspirational immigrant communities that "you should forget this foolish stuff, and concentrate on being successful." That means working your socks off to be a professional - lawyer / doctor - and not engage in the underpaid arts. If you add in the fact that minorities don't have the connections to penetrate the artistic community anyway, it's a circle, I'd say.

This is true (as someone with many family members to immigrated to the US from China). The idea is that once you've established yourself in a new country, THEN maybe your kids or grandkids can do something that's far less financially stable. But not you.

The circle is also true. If you don't see people in your community succeeding in a certain line of work (and your opportunities are already limited, meaning you're less likely to take a risk), then why bother?

Related, this just came up on my twitter feed: ww2.kqed.org/science/2016/08/08/national-parks-have-some-work-to-do-to-become-parks-for-all/

[Phantom of London]

I was at the Shaftsbury Theatre seeing the Pajama Game several years back and I was chatting to a black employee, it was a matinee and we were watching the patrons leave and both of has lamented that how much of the audience was white and grey (I did say grey) and said to the employee, that the next show will bring in more people of colour, wind forward to Memphis the show I was referring to, watching the audience leave and yeap they were - white and grey.

[Deleted]

It certainly depends on the show at the venue - you're going to have more older people at say Funny Girl but totally more families at say The Lion King or Charlie.

I see Black people at lots of shows if I'm honest. There were quite a few at Motown on Saturday. I love going to the theatre and seeing diversity in the seats

[lynette]

Is it the cost? Well, I'm told football is expensive these days.
Do you have to have exposure to theatre? Well, most schools do some kind of drama and school productions.
Access? There are theatres in small towns and good shows do tour. You can see great stuff in the London suburbs without ever going into the West End.
A cultural thing? Maybe, I see 49th mentions that some people concentrate on careers that are more certain and maybe don't rate the arts but wait a minute, what about sport? Sport demands family support and sacrifice and there are black and other ethnicities in sport.

I don't have the answer. But I do know an eight year old who loves the theatre so much she has started a blog so all is not lost.

[49thand8th]

Sports are also divided along racial lines -- look at the reception when Tiger Woods made it big in a sport that's historically been extremely segregated. As opposed to basketball, where a kid can hone their skills as long as they have a bunch of buddies, a ball, and a court. That previously mentioned cycle also comes in here. You might see other kids like you succeed in basketball (but not, say, badminton, tennis, golf, etc), so which one would you naturally gravitate towards?

[kathryn]

I wonder what the demographics of this place is? Are we 'typical' theatregoers?

[49thand8th]

Is there a similar West End report to this?

www.broadwayleague.com/research/research-reports/

[showgirl]

I think the audience can vary according to venue and production: for instance, I see much more mixed audiences at the Tricycle, Theatre Royal, Stratford East and indeed at the NT at times - and previously, as already mentioned by an earlier poster, at BILB.

If you are a regular at a particular theatre, you can tell whether it's the production itself which has attracted a certain audience, or a more diverse one and sometimes I've been really surprised to find myself in a minority for whatever reason: age, colour, religion. But that's obviously good for theatre-going in general and probably for me, as a middle-aged white female; in fact, it's quite refreshing when it's not just the play which makes you sit up and take notice. It's also interesting to see that the audience is out there somewhere for the right work - though I do sometimes find myself wondering how they all came to be there and how they heard about it, because the publicity has evidently targeted a particular market - and successfully - but has therefore passed me by.

[Deleted]

I've gotta say, I don't understand why we're talking about "aspirational immigrant communities" being encouraged to become lawyers and doctors rather than artists. I mean, I don't doubt the truth in the idea, but aren't we talking about *audience* demographics? Just how many opportunities for "professional audience member" do you think there *are*?

[viserys]

Haha, good question, Baemax. I assume the thought is that the second generation (who is supposed to have these aspirations) is busy studying to become lawyers or doctors and thus neither think about performing on stage nor about attending the theatre as an audience member.

Personally I would love to see more stories from Africa, Asia or South America on stage instead of white men's fantasies of the orient (Miss Saigon) or the token black leading man in Shakespeare. It's annoying enough that Aladdin isn't able to cast the leads with actual Middle Eastern performers, but there are so many incredible tales to be told, either historical or modern. If shows like Bombay Dreams and Bend it like Beckham can draw more Asians to the theatre, why not encourage more writers from non-white communities to create new plays and musicals that reflect their history and stories? I would much prefer to see more shows like Here lies love (that actually encouraged me to read a biography of Imelda Marcos and learn quite a lot about the Philippines) than yet another story of plucky white people from decades ago.

[BurlyBeaR]

Does the usual demographic on Broadway change for The Color Purple and Hamilton? And if so to what extent? Does it completely flip the other way and do you expect the same to happen when Hamilton comes to London?

How about Dreamgirls?

[Deleted]

Theatre is quite a white middle class thing generally. Yes there will not just be white people in an audience but that is what I also generally see. Hopefully things like Hamilton will bring all kinds of people into theatre from all ages and walks of life as I think theatre should be for everyone and I think places like the national help as they are open and have cheaper seats and just a variety of shows for everyone.

[DuchessConstance]

I've noticed that whenever a show has good ethnic diversity in its casting (and especially shows that are specifically about non-white people), that diversity is very heavily reflected in the audience. So it appears there are lots of non-white people in London who enjoy going to the theatre but perhaps don't feel comfortable seeing the majority of shows that are lily-white. There's a whole big diverse audience out there who are just not catered for enough. Unfortunately many in the industry still consider anything to do with "minorities" to be a risk.

My best friend is 'brown' and always plays 'spot the brown person' when we go to the theatre. Most of the time there are no (or maybe one or two) other non-white people in the audience.

[Deleted]

I think it is to do with how marginalised BAME are in society and how there are barriers to integration

Sikhs and Hindus have contributed well economically to the UK for years

Yet how many of them are represented in positions of political power?

Same with the theatre and arts

This is why Bend It Like Beckham was a flagship moment (much to the malice and spite of many posters on this forum) in that a female Sikh director bought her cultural thoughts and ideas to a mainstream audience

That it resonated strongly with young females and British born Asians was excellent- it made them feel like they mattered and have a place in society

Unfortunately there is not enough of the target demographic to justify a large number of these financially risk ventures

If certain demographics do not want to attend the theatre then let it be

We all have our own interests

In addition many of my family members think the theatre is a waste of money and they are better off investing it in property to make a profit 

If you have come from having nothing and had to struggle for years, it is always going to seem bizarre to spend £150 to watch people dancing about on stage

I love going to the theatre and would never give it up but can also see that it is a massive extravagance and a decadence there to make money

Some people would rather save the money, others need it to survive and yet more would prefer a holiday

One thing we (as loyal theatre sisters) do not consider that often in detail is that theatre is quite expensive now

Of course people post about costs of premium tickets but I do not think many of us actually buy those anyway

But I rarely hear posters avoiding a show due to cost factors

In reality and in normal lay society most people cannot afford to see loads of shows due to other priorities

I know for example relatively well off friends who had a family and going to the theatre just goes right down the list of things to do

[Deleted]

Out of interest, would everyone here be okay sharing their particular demographic details? I for example am an embarrassingly typical 30-something white middle-class woman, how about yourselves?

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2016 14:13:14 GMT @baemax said:

Out of interest, would everyone here be okay sharing their particular demographic details? I for example am an embarrassingly typical white middle-class woman, how about yourselves?

Until the day they add a tick box for 'Simply Fabulous' I ain't filling in no form!

[49thand8th]

Aug 9, 2016 10:28:47 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Does the usual demographic on Broadway change for The Color Purple and Hamilton? And if so to what extent? Does it completely flip the other way and do you expect the same to happen when Hamilton comes to London?

How about Dreamgirls?

I haven't seen The Color Purple yet, but having seen Hamilton during previews, several months later, the audience got much whiter and much older. However, I did see an 80-year-old white man successfully rap in the lobby from memory, so that was interesting.

Seeing Hamilton in previews was the most diverse and palpably excited Broadway audience I'd ever been a part of, second only to when I saw Taye Diggs' first performance as Hedwig.

I think the idea of bringing up immigrant communities came up in this thread because audiences who haven't generally seen stories they can relate to -- in a genre that has been historically exclusionary -- tend to gravitate towards those that do. Although on Broadway things seem a little different than on tour. I saw Jersey Boys a LOT in San Francisco (three U.S. companies originated there) and that was consistently one of the most Asian American (not Asian immigrant, Asian AMERICAN) audiences I was ever a part of. I really wish I'd done a survey of everyone asking what appealed to them about the show. The population of San Francisco itself is about 30-40% of Asian ancestry, which is part of it, but the other part of the puzzle? I'm not sure. As that was my first exposure to JB, it felt very strange when I saw it on Broadway for the first time in 2007 and was one of like 3 POCs in the audience.

[Snciole]

Aug 9, 2016 14:00:09 GMT DuchessConstance said:

I've noticed that whenever a show has good ethnic diversity in its casting (and especially shows that are specifically about non-white people), that diversity is very heavily reflected in the audience. So it appears there are lots of non-white people in London who enjoy going to the theatre but perhaps don't feel comfortable seeing the majority of shows that are lily-white. There's a whole big diverse audience out there who are just not catered for enough. Unfortunately many in the industry still consider anything to do with "minorities" to be a risk.

My best friend is 'brown' and always plays 'spot the brown person' when we go to the theatre. Most of the time there are no (or maybe one or two) other non-white people in the audience.

It is probably me!

I like to support BME-majority productions (for example I am going to see Torn at the Royal Court) but I definitely think people of African descent are more likely to go to the theatre, and these numbers increase if the cast is mostly black, but having gone to a lot of plays about North Korea (usually with Chinese actors...) that isn't reflected there. I don't if it was different for a play like Dara at the NT.

I think Amadeus' audience at the NT should be interesting, I was very much drawn to the casting but I would have gone and seen it if a white actor had been cast (as per the usual arrangement) 

[viserys]

Parsley's post was an interesting read. I do wonder if there's a feeling in all of this that "immigrant communities" should start liking "our" theatre and attend it, despite coming from cultures with different kinds of entertainment. Personally I love Asia and Asian cultures, but while I found it interesting to see ONE Chinese opera once, I couldn't envision to watch this regularly. Same as Japanese kabuki theatre. I went through a phase where I really liked Bollywood movies, but after 20 or so of them, I grew tired of them already. So perhaps yea, we should just accept that even the children and grandchildren of immigrants may prefer "their" kind of entertainment/music/show with which they grew up.

I'm definitely part of the big cliche here, early 40s, white, female... and wannabe-English.

[DuchessConstance]

But obviously non-white demographics DO want to go to the theatre, they just don't want to see all-white shows, and the theatre industry is ignorantly marginalising them by not catering to them as well as they could.

I doubt there are all that many whites people so stonkingly racist as to refuse to see a play just because there are some non-white cast members. The RSC Hamlet seems to have done okay.

[Deleted]

Most people on this board are unusually fanatical theatregoers, so we shouldn't read too much into their individual dempgraphics.

More important is the demographic of the casual, occasional theatregoer because it's a failure of public arts policy if some sectors of the population aren't engaged with any arts at all. And conversely it's arguably also an issue of concern if there are some sectors who are extremely highly engaged, and perhaps superserved by public arts policy.

[49thand8th]

Aug 9, 2016 15:25:37 GMT DuchessConstance said:

But obviously non-white demographics DO want to go to the theatre, they just don't want to see all-white shows, and the theatre industry is ignorantly marginalising them by not catering to them as well as they could.

I doubt there are all that many whites people so stonkingly racist as to refuse to see a play just because there are some non-white cast members. The RSC Hamlet seems to have done okay.

Probably not. The ones who refuse to take their kids to see a black Santa at the mall aren't necessarily the ones staying away from diverse casts in droves. (But they're out there, I'm sure.)

[Snciole]

Aug 9, 2016 15:14:49 GMT @theatremonkey said:

Parsley's best post ever. 100% agree with it all.

Aug 9, 2016 14:27:41 GMT Snciole said:

having gone to a lot of plays about North Korea (usually with Chinese actors...) that isn't reflected there

Hmmm, maybe slightly spurious, as the immediate audience is rather stuck at home, aren't they... that country is an fascination of mine, too, btw.

Oh, and demographic, Baemax is white, English, 40-something, straight and male. Exactly on the curve, I guess.

Ha! I suppose I mean Asian Pacific descent rather than North Koreans, who probably want to keep low if they've managed to escape. When looking at theatre people always "OHMYGOD! Where are the black people?" and I would argue that yes we are still a minority but in London they at least support plays that speak to them. I think the truth is plays don't speak to a lot of people and it is about enjoyment and escapism.