Bad Behaviour at a Show

[SilverFox]

I was at a function chatting with some WE theatre people about (I think) SOLT putting out an advert about etiquette, due to the unprecedented levels of bad behaviour after theatres had reopened after lockdown. This was not just at the usual suspects ("Jersey Boys" and "Mamma Mia" were named), but also at serious drama - a fight had apparently broken out at a play at the Gielgud. I am not sure if it ever came to fruition, as some felt it would deter regular patrons, but Jake is right that they cannot satisfy both camps.

I feel it has got worse since alcohol / food was allowed into the auditorium, and would be happy to see it restricted to the bars.

There are similar (but less talked about due to sensitivities) worries in the industry about the relaxed and dementia-friendly performances spreading disruptive (NOT the same category as 'bad') tendencies to performances.

[jake]

Nov 18, 2024 10:59:06 GMT ladidah said:

Nov 17, 2024 14:52:40 GMT jake said:

They need to copy Starlight Express, you are firmly told you can't leave and they put up barriers!

Reminds me of the old joke at Anfield. 

Sign outside Goodison Park:  Entrance 2s/6d; Exit 5s/0d

Seriously, though: to take my example of the Almeida - there are only two doors into the stalls. How hard can it be to enforce the 'no re-entry' rule?  But Roots was by no means the first time I've seen the no late entry/no re-entry 'rule' flouted there.  And that's a serious factor when I consider whether I really want to see one of their productions. 

[lynette]

Being late isn’t really bad behaviour but I think should be dealt with better. At the opera you used to be shown to seats at the back somewhere kept for latecomers. The other day, three people arrived about 15 minutes late for Juno. We were at the end ( my usual spot) and there wasn’t room to just ease up and left em squeeze past. We both had to get up and move into the side aisle, clutching our hitherto arranged coast and bags. Then of course we had to get back again. It was annoying. No friendly banter in the interval… but I’m wondering why they let them come in so late in a serious play. Why not seat them at the back in say half a dozen seats kept for the purpose? As it happened the first act was only 50 minutes so they wouldn’t have suffered waiting that long.

[matthew90]

Nov 18, 2024 12:38:51 GMT lynette said:

Being late isn’t really bad behaviour but I think should be dealt with better. At the opera you used to be shown to seats at the back somewhere kept for latecomers. The other day, three people arrived about 15 minutes late for Juno. We were at the end ( my usual spot) and there wasn’t room to just ease up and left em squeeze past. We both had to get up and move into the side aisle, clutching our hitherto arranged coast and bags. Then of course we had to get back again. It was annoying. No friendly banter in the interval… but I’m wondering why they let them come in so late in a serious play. Why not seat them at the back in say half a dozen seats kept for the purpose? As it happened the first act was only 50 minutes so they wouldn’t have suffered waiting that long.

Maybe I've been lucky, but in 30 plus years of going to the theatre and 1000+ shows I've never managed to be late to the theatre or had to leave mid performance - I see it as a sign of respect to the production and audience to make sure you get there in plenty of time.... If I was late I would expect not to be allowed in till the 2nd act, or if only 1 act I miss it altogether. Late arrivals is a massive distraction. I remember years ago being shown at Sydney Opera House, that late arrivals or mid-performance leavers wait in this bar area and can watch the performance on the conductor monitor/camera.

[Jon]

It's a bit unfair to say people being late are disrespectful because you can be late for various reasons like transport issues although I do draw the line at those who are naturally late for everything.

[jake]

Nov 18, 2024 14:06:12 GMT matthew90 said:

Nov 18, 2024 12:38:51 GMT lynette said:

Being late isn’t really bad behaviour but I think should be dealt with better. At the opera you used to be shown to seats at the back somewhere kept for latecomers. The other day, three people arrived about 15 minutes late for Juno. We were at the end ( my usual spot) and there wasn’t room to just ease up and left em squeeze past. We both had to get up and move into the side aisle, clutching our hitherto arranged coast and bags. Then of course we had to get back again. It was annoying. No friendly banter in the interval… but I’m wondering why they let them come in so late in a serious play. Why not seat them at the back in say half a dozen seats kept for the purpose? As it happened the first act was only 50 minutes so they wouldn’t have suffered waiting that long.

Maybe I've been lucky, but in 30 plus years of going to the theatre and 1000+ shows I've never managed to be late to the theatre or had to leave mid performance - I see it as a sign of respect to the production and audience to make sure you get there in plenty of time.... If I was late I would expect not to be allowed in till the 2nd act, or if only 1 act I miss it altogether. Late arrivals is a massive distraction. I remember years ago being shown at Sydney Opera House, that late arrivals or mid-performance leavers wait in this bar area and can watch the performance on the conductor monitor/camera.

And maybe I've been lucky, too.  I've been late once in over 40 years of theatre/concert/opera etc.  It wasn't my fault but it was my misfortune and I wouldn't dream of offloading my misfortune onto the rest of the audience so I missed the show.

I have little time for latecomers - and not just because it doesn't happen to me.  In decades of experience I've found people I know who are frequently late are seldom unlucky - they almost always haven't given themselves enough time for their journey. And that doesn't just apply to scheduled performances. At work, on a date or just at a prearranged meeting it was the same people over and over again who couldn't seem to manage to be on time.  I don't judge them - I just don't think it should be indulged. 

[lt]

Complete agree with jake (for some reason TB not allowing me to quote post) the worst example and indeed one of my worst nights ever at the theatre in terms of behaviour was at the Hammersmith Lyric watching A Raisin in the Sun, when five different groups were allowed to arrive late from 1930 to 2010.

[sph]

Nov 18, 2024 12:38:51 GMT lynette said:

Being late isn’t really bad behaviour but I think should be dealt with better. At the opera you used to be shown to seats at the back somewhere kept for latecomers. The other day, three people arrived about 15 minutes late for Juno. We were at the end ( my usual spot) and there wasn’t room to just ease up and left em squeeze past. We both had to get up and move into the side aisle, clutching our hitherto arranged coast and bags. Then of course we had to get back again. It was annoying. No friendly banter in the interval… but I’m wondering why they let them come in so late in a serious play. Why not seat them at the back in say half a dozen seats kept for the purpose? As it happened the first act was only 50 minutes so they wouldn’t have suffered waiting that long.

To be honest, there aren't any seats held for latecomers generally as producers want every seat sold. If you do see empty seats at the back of the auditorium on a busy show, the likelihood is they belong to someone and the theatre has no right to give them away.

That being said, if there are easily accessible seats at the back which have NOT been sold, some theatres will, at their own discretion, slip latecomers into those to make things easier, assuring the latecomers that they can transfer to their proper seats at the interval.

[lynette]

I mean put seats there for the purpose. Pull downs like the ushers have?

[jake]

Nov 18, 2024 15:39:11 GMT sph said:

Nov 18, 2024 12:38:51 GMT lynette said:

Being late isn’t really bad behaviour but I think should be dealt with better. At the opera you used to be shown to seats at the back somewhere kept for latecomers. The other day, three people arrived about 15 minutes late for Juno. We were at the end ( my usual spot) and there wasn’t room to just ease up and left em squeeze past. We both had to get up and move into the side aisle, clutching our hitherto arranged coast and bags. Then of course we had to get back again. It was annoying. No friendly banter in the interval… but I’m wondering why they let them come in so late in a serious play. Why not seat them at the back in say half a dozen seats kept for the purpose? As it happened the first act was only 50 minutes so they wouldn’t have suffered waiting that long.

To be honest, there aren't any seats held for latecomers generally as producers want every seat sold. If you do see empty seats at the back of the auditorium on a busy show, the likelihood is they belong to someone and the theatre has no right to give them away.

That being said, if there are easily accessible seats at the back which have NOT been sold, some theatres will, at their own discretion, slip latecomers into those to make things easier, assuring the latecomers that they can transfer to their proper seats at the interval.

I'm not sure what the legal situation is, but I expect that, strictly speaking, the seats always belong to the theatre and their disposal is governed by whatever contract exists between the owner and the ticket holder. The Donmar used to have (maybe still has?) a policy of inviting standing patrons to occupy empty seats seconds before the start.  I was told that this was covered by a condition of sale that said patrons not in their seats x minutes before the scheduled start relinquished any rights over them (at least until the interval).  The ROH had a similar policy years ago - which led to some unfortunate gentry having to sit next to peasants like me for one or more acts. A good trick was to get Stalls Circle standing for controversial productions.  People were almost sure to walk out in disgust early in Act 1.  In the Jones/Lowery Ring (1990s) I saw Acts 2 &3 of both Die Walküre and Siegfried from £100 Stalls seats - and I didn't help myself; the usher invited me to move from my standing place to a very well-situated seat.

Actual latecomers at the ROH were invited to watch a cctv relay in one of the bars.  I saw it myself once - not because I was late but because the production of Tannhäuser I'd travelled to see was running late and I feared missing my train home; so I asked if I could watch Act 3 in the bar so that I could dash off in time without disturbing people in the auditorium.

[marob]

It is annoying, especially when they then spend ages stripping off coats and rummaging in handbags.

But the only time latecomers have really annoyed me was when the Back to the Future musical was doing its trial run at Manchester Opera House. Someone decided one of the “suitable breaks” to admit latecomers was right before the first big special effect where the car appears onstage for the first time. Probably quite impressive when the view’s not blocked by audience members having to get up on multiple rows.

[terrylondon79]

Badly behaved creatives at a Christmas carol (ISH)
Using phones with brightness up. Making a call at one point. Also laughing hysterically at jokes, where they were getting few laughs elsewhere on the theatre. Noticed they had cocktails in hand maybe that what was what is needed to find the show funny?

[Dawnstar]

I wasn't very impressed at Phantom last week that several lots of latecomers were let in right up until after the title song, which is quite a long way into Act I.

The handful of times I've been late for performances over the years have all apart from once been due to severe train delays. Usually venues have, perfectly reasonably, made me either sit or stand somewhere at the back or wait outside. Though on one occasion a few years ago the FOH staff seemed quite prepared to show me to my front row stalls seat immediately, but I refused as I did not want to distract both the rest of the audience & potentially the actors so I insisted on waiting at the back until the end of the first scene.

[sph]

Nov 18, 2024 20:12:38 GMT jake said:

Nov 18, 2024 15:39:11 GMT sph said:

To be honest, there aren't any seats held for latecomers generally as producers want every seat sold. If you do see empty seats at the back of the auditorium on a busy show, the likelihood is they belong to someone and the theatre has no right to give them away.

That being said, if there are easily accessible seats at the back which have NOT been sold, some theatres will, at their own discretion, slip latecomers into those to make things easier, assuring the latecomers that they can transfer to their proper seats at the interval.

I'm not sure what the legal situation is, but I expect that, strictly speaking, the seats always belong to the theatre and their disposal is governed by whatever contract exists between the owner and the ticket holder. The Donmar used to have (maybe still has?) a policy of inviting standing patrons to occupy empty seats seconds before the start.  I was told that this was covered by a condition of sale that said patrons not in their seats x minutes before the scheduled start relinquished any rights over them (at least until the interval).  The ROH had a similar policy years ago - which led to some unfortunate gentry having to sit next to peasants like me for one or more acts. A good trick was to get Stalls Circle standing for controversial productions.  People were almost sure to walk out in disgust early in Act 1.  In the Jones/Lowery Ring (1990s) I saw Acts 2 &3 of both Die Walküre and Siegfried from £100 Stalls seats - and I didn't help myself; the usher invited me to move from my standing place to a very well-situated seat.

Actual latecomers at the ROH were invited to watch a cctv relay in one of the bars.  I saw it myself once - not because I was late but because the production of Tannhäuser I'd travelled to see was running late and I feared missing my train home; so I asked if I could watch Act 3 in the bar so that I could dash off in time without disturbing people in the auditorium.

I'm sure that strictly speaking there are ways in which theatres can sit people wherever they like, but imagine the headache that would ensue if latecomers arrived to find that earlier patrons had taken their seats. If a patron has paid for a particular seat, unless there is a very clear policy - which there may be in smaller off-west-end/fringe venues - I imagine they expect to be able to occupy it even if they arrive late. 

The fact is, in a commercial West End theatre you'd be hard pressed to find a way of seating latecomers without disturbing other audience members if the show is busy. Producers don't want to give up the seats they could sell, and those left empty or unclaimed may not be great enough in number to accommodate the amount of latecomers. Like I said, at the theatre's discretion, they often do take advantage of unsold seats for latecomers or audience members who need to be moved for various reasons, but there's no guarantee of their availability. The policy of escorting latecomers to their own seats is there for a reason, however inconvenient it may seem.

[jake]

Nov 19, 2024 0:31:21 GMT sph said:

Nov 18, 2024 20:12:38 GMT jake said:

I'm sure that strictly speaking there are ways in which theatres can sit people wherever they like, but imagine the headache that would ensue if latecomers arrived to find that earlier patrons had taken their seats. If a patron has paid for a particular seat, unless there is a very clear policy - which there may be in smaller off-west-end/fringe venues - I imagine they expect to be able to occupy it even if they arrive late. 

The fact is, in a commercial West End theatre you'd be hard pressed to find a way of seating latecomers without disturbing other audience members if the show is busy. Producers don't want to give up the seats they could sell, and those left empty or unclaimed may not be great enough in number to accommodate the amount of latecomers. Like I said, at the theatre's discretion, they often do take advantage of unsold seats for latecomers or audience members who need to be moved for various reasons, but there's no guarantee of their availability. The policy of escorting latecomers to their own seats is there for a reason, however inconvenient it may seem.

Which is why a very clear policy of 'your ticket doesn't entitle you to enter the auditorium while the performance is underway' (owtte) is the best thing in most circumstances. Let's face it, even if latecomers are guided to empty sections or row ends, the light as the doors open and whispering while people are directed, though obviously not as bad as clambering over seated patrons to a specified seat, is still quite a distraction.  I remember The Turn of the Screw at the Coliseum when the ENO decided latecomers had to stand behind the Dress Circle.  As usual in this exquisite piece where, unusually for opera, the words are very clear above the chamber orchestra, the seated patrons were alert to every sound and, given the plot, every trick of the light on stage.  So the annoyance when the doors behind were thrown open and a sound was heard behind us like a herd of cattle being ushered in to the accompaniment of loudly whispered directions was palpable.

As it happens, on the one occasion the rightful occupant of a seat I had been given turned up there was no trouble at all.  That was at the Teatro Real in Madrid and an usher had invited me to vacate my very restricted view seat at the back of the Circle and take up a much better seat near the front for Act 1 of Katya Kabanova.  I have no real command of Spanish but when, at the interval, a couple turned up, said a few words and flashed tickets it was quite clear what they meant.  I went back to my restricted view and they took their seats with no obvious ill-feeling.

[sph]

There's really no "blanket rule" with how the seating of latecomers is dealt with. Some theatres are more flexible than others, some producers are more stringent with entry points and readmission. Michael Grandage, for example, often prevents latecomers from entering until the interval.

It's hard to say "theatres should do X, Y and Z" when they're all operating with different buildings, shows, and producers which all have different requirements.

From when I worked in theatres, I can assure you the greatest issues were the ALMIGHTY tantrums members of the public would throw when faced with waiting for an entry or re-entry point.

[Jan]

Nov 18, 2024 14:29:04 GMT jake said:

Nov 18, 2024 14:06:12 GMT matthew90 said:

And maybe I've been lucky, too.  I've been late once in over 40 years of theatre/concert/opera etc.  It wasn't my fault but it was my misfortune and I wouldn't dream of offloading my misfortune onto the rest of the audience so I missed the show.

Yep, me too. Late only once due to transport difficulties - I arrived 10mins late and decided to miss the show (RSC Coriolanus, Toby Stephens - luckily it had bad reviews). 

[robertb213]

I volunteer at a regional theatre and the latecomers policy is determined by the visiting company rather than the venue, varying by show. Most musicals or plays have a fixed latecomers point where we're allowed to seat customers, before that we hold them at the door. If a show is a sell-out then I'll show them to their booked seats (even if they're mid-row) but where we've got more availability I'll seat them somewhere less disruptive further back and they can move at the interval.

[longinthetooth]

I was once late to a show, thanks to flooding on the railway line. My journey of 30 minutes took the best part of three hours. I had no lunch and nothing to drink, and was on the point of calling it quits, having given myself five more minutes to get to the theatre. The staff couldn't have been lovelier. I waited in a small area with a screen to watch what was happening on stage until a suitable gap, when they took me to my seat. I'd got ready beforehand, so there was no shuffling off of coat or anything like that.

I recall being at a concert once, at the Royal Albert Hall, when four latecomers climbed across us to their seats. No sooner there, two of them then climbed back over us to stock up on drinks for their party. Cue clamber no.3 when they returned with said alcoholic beverages. You can guess what's coming. Barely half an hour later, they were up again, needing the loo. Nightmare. That was the last straw for my OH, who now refuses to attend any more concerts or shows.

[nash16]

Nov 17, 2024 11:24:46 GMT steve10086 said:

Nov 16, 2024 22:26:36 GMT nash16 said:

Alcohol, sadly, will never be banned in theatres.  It makes them too much money.  And it's alllll about the money.

God forbid a theatre should make money! Would you rather they went broke and closed down?

Heaven forbid! No!! As I said it’s all about the moneeeeey!!! They need it!!! ATG has always nailed this and look at their income. A roaring success!!!

[fiyero]

Chicago tour last night. All the usual expected low-level bad behaviour (smart watch checkers each side of me etc...) but picking up on recent chat here, latecomers 58 minutes into the show - sat in the first few rows (stalls and circle sold out so couldn't really put them anywhere else I guess!). I'd have given up and gone home rather than stroll in an hour late!

[stuart]

Last night I saw Here & Now (the Steps musical) and tonight I saw Dr Strangelove. Guess which one had the worst audience behaviour?

Dr Strangelove.

Audience members going to toilet and then returning repeatedly (the Toilets being in the Stalls of the Noel Coward don’t help), a few cameras being brought out during Act 1 that the Ushers made a bit of a scene trying to stop, a woman behind me started loudly snoring during Act 2 (her partner did look and sound mortified, in fairness).

Give me a Steps audience any day! No phones, no singing along - until the Megamix at the end.

[ladidah]

Oh god, why do people think no-one can see them filming!?

[jake]

Nov 20, 2024 23:08:12 GMT stuart said:

Last night I saw Here & Now (the Steps musical) and tonight I saw Dr Strangelove. Guess which one had the worst audience behaviour?

Dr Strangelove.

Audience members going to toilet and then returning repeatedly (the Toilets being in the Stalls of the Noel Coward don’t help), a few cameras being brought out during Act 1 that the Ushers made a bit of a scene trying to stop, a woman behind me started loudly snoring during Act 2 (her partner did look and sound mortified, in fairness).

Give me a Steps audience any day! No phones, no singing along - until the Megamix at the end.

Wot?! The same audience members?  Reminds me of seeing Zappa Plays Zappa at Liverpool Phil.  A group of three or four blokes in our row kept going to the toilet during the concert.  They looked far too young to have weak bladders and, strangely enough, they were always wiping their noses on the way back to their seats!

Seriously, I'm glad I didn't make an effort to see this.  I'm not keen on adaptations of films or novels anyway and this was always going to attract people whose main aim was to be able to say they'd seen Steve Coogan live.  And take photos of themselves seeing Steve Coogan live.  And wake up just in time to start a standing ovation to congratulate themselves on having seen Steve Coogan live.  I love the film and I like Alan Partridge, Tommy Saxondale etc but I wasn't going to go to a lot of trouble and/or pay a lot of money to see this.

[SilverFox]

Dwayne Johnson on the BBC

AARRGGHHHHH!

“Sing! You’ve paid your hard earned money for a ticket, and you've gone into a musical, and you’re into it. Sing," he said.

Another nail in the coffin.