Finding Dory

[Michael]

Anyone seen it yet? It's not released here in Germany until 29th September, so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

I'm in Leeds and Bradford next weekend, so if I'm lucky, I will see it there. If not, I'm in London two weeks later.

[Deleted]

It's on my list of things to see, though I haven't been terribly impressed with Pixar of late. I loved Inside Out to the extent of seeing it thirteen times in the cinema, but it was the first Pixar film I've really loved since The Incredibles and their next production — The Good Dinosaur — was a complete turd of a film. I thought Finding Nemo was insipid and unimaginative and its main justification seemed to be "look, we can do water now". The reviews for Finding Dory seem to be positive so perhaps it'll turn out well.

[Michael]

I'm dreading Cars 3 (didn't like any of its predecessors either), bit I disagree with you that Pixar didn't release any great films since The Incredibles (didn't we have this discussion already?). I for one loved both WALL-E (story telling without words, and I really cared about that "stupid" robot which showed "real" emotions) and Up (Carl and Ellie's love story was just wow - funny, touching and emotional).
I also liked Ratatouille, Brave (wasn't that one's main justification "look, we can do hair now"?) and Monsters University (not quite as good as Monsters, Inc.), even though they weren't as good as WALL-E, Up and The Incredibles.

However, I totally agree with you on Inside Out (Pixar's by far best film, and I really think it should have won the Best Picture Oscar (and not "only" Best Animated Feature)) and The Good Dinosaur (amazing scenery and impressive landscapes, but oh-so-boring).

That said, I'm still angry that Toy Story 3's "We Belong Together" robbed the "Best Song" Oscar from Tangled's "I See The Light" - a much better song.

[Jon]

Finding Dory is very good, it's not as good as Finding Nemo but it's close.

I think Walt Disney Animation Studios has upped their game in the last few years with Zootropolis, Big Hero 6, Frozen etc I'm really looking forward to Moana.

Pixar and Disney are still top dogs in animation IMO I saw The Secret Life of Pets which is by Illumination and was disappointed in it, it was animation by numbers at best.

[Deleted]

Is it worth going to WD if u ain't seen WN?

[David J]

I have watched Pixar movies since Toy Story came out in cinemas, but it was only until Finding Nemo that I fell in love with their work

Ratatouille to Toy Story 3 was for me Pixar's Golden Age. They weren't all perfect but I thought the imagination put into them was astonishing. They appealed to both children and adults, finding the right blend of humour and poignancy. I'll never forget the monologue the late Peter O'Toole delivers at the end of Ratatouille, WALL-E and Eve flying through space, the married life montage in Up, or the toys stuck in the incinerator

Then of course it has gone down hill since then with the worst film they've made, Cars 2, and the average Brave and Monsters Uni. The Good Dinosaur doesnt sound hopeful either (that was the one where John Lasseter removed Bob Peterson from directing the film that he had been working on since 2009)

Inside Out though has for me become the best Pixar movie to date, and I wish Pixar would go back to creating more original stories like that instead of another Toy Story and Cars. I'm more interested in the Coco movie that is coming late next year that is set around the Mexican holiday, Día de Muertos.

Thankfully the sequel many a pixar fan is dying to see, The Incredibles 2, will finally be coming (in three years time)

There's an interesting fact that back in 1994, John Lasseter, Andrew Stanton, Pete Docter and Joe Ranft were brainstorming ideas over lunch for what should come next after Toy Story. They came up with Bug's Life, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo and WALL-E all those years back. I think they need to have one of those lunch breaks again really.

[Jon]

Jul 30, 2016 23:07:19 GMT @kevinuk said:

I haven't seen Dory yet, but want to say how much I love Pixar. It feels like a studio that genuinely love what they do, put story telling at the forefront of everything and have changed the animation landscape forever.

I think they are slightly too sequel heavy at the moment, but they are owned by Disney, who aren't afraid to milk their audience: I heard they demanded Cars 2 and 3 because they made $10 billion in merchandise alone from the first one.

The sequel I'm longing for however is Monsters Inc 2. Monsters University was a cop out - I want to see what happened when he opened the door! I hear we're getting Toy Story 4 too - Toy Story 3 was absolutely perfect so I'm apprehensive about a follow up (for me, Toy Story 3 was a movie first and foremost for the kids who first saw Toy Story back in 1994).

Walle and Up are brilliant, as was Inside Out. All 3 connect on an incredibly human level which Pixar are so good at ensuring works for all ages: plus I love that if you see them first as kids, that your relationship with the films will change as you grow older.

Cars is John Lasseter's baby hence why he's involved with the third film and all aspects of the Cars franchise. 

The Good Dinosaur had story issues hence why Bob Peterson and Pixar did their best to salvage but it wasn't enough. Brave had similar issues as did Ratatouille.

Pixar and WDAS really put emphasis on story whereas many studios put emphasis on gags first and story second, it's why their films stand up better with age than others. 

 

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2016 23:48:47 GMT Jon said:

Pixar and WDAS really put emphasis on story whereas many studios put emphasis on gags first and story second, it's why their films stand up better with age than others.

I think the difference runs much deeper than just an emphasis on story.

Most animation tends to be dismissed as "cartoons for children". Some films are quite definitely pitched squarely at young children and are pretty much unwatchable for adults — I had trouble just sitting through the trailers for the recent Peppa Pig movie — and some are unquestionably suitable for adults only, but in the middle there's a range that are suitable for a wide span of ages and that's where things get interesting.

Some films are clearly children's films with some adult humour added on top. The characters have no great depth and their motivations are simple, and the core storyline is basic, straightforward and easy to understand. There are few or no powerfully emotional sequences and the parts that go over the heads of younger members of the audience don't change the meaning of the film in any way. Much like a pantomime, a five year old and a fifty year old see the same film; the latter sees it with a couple of dick jokes in it but it's basically the same experience. I'm looking at you, Minions. But only once, because you're too shallow to justify a second look.

But some films — and I include most of the Disney films and many of the Pixar ones in this group — are significantly different. There's a greater emotional depth to them. The characters and their motivations are far more complex, there's a greater maturity to the stories being told and they have a multitude of threads that interact in intricate ways, and the overall demand on the audience is far higher. The core of the film is pitched at an adult's level and children miss out on some of what's going on at the heart of the story because they don't have the life experience to appreciate it in an adult way. Children don't have the understanding to see how eighteen years of systematic psychological abuse affects Rapunzel's view of the world, or what it means for Elsa to cut herself off from her beloved sister because she thinks that's the only way to keep her safe, or how Riley's parents set up the situation that ultimately leads to her inability to cope, or what lack of fulfilment does to Mr Incredible's home life and what that means for Elastigirl. Children enjoy the adventure but they miss out on many of the layers of meaning and richness of emotion. They have a fundamentally different experience from adults because at heart the films are adult films with all the depth and complexity of any adult-oriented live-action production. And that's why the films keep working so well.

[David J]

I'd like to think that since John Lasseter became Creative Officer and Advisor for Disney, overseeing all their animated films, that he is contributing to what some people think is their second renaissance

Tangled, Winnie the Pooh, Wreck-it-Ralph, Frozen, Big Hero 6, Zootopia. Maybe people may not regard these on the same level as films like Beauty and the Beast, Lion King and Aladdin, and they are certainly different. But animation wise Disney seems to be on a roll at the moment

I also noticed John Lasster is a great friend and admirer of Hayao Miyazaki, the man behined Studio Ghibli whose films also puts a greater focus on story. He has been executive producer of several of those films, helping to get their release in the US

[Jon]

Jul 31, 2016 5:52:12 GMT @thematthew said:

Jul 30, 2016 23:48:47 GMT Jon said:

Pixar and WDAS really put emphasis on story whereas many studios put emphasis on gags first and story second, it's why their films stand up better with age than others.

I think the difference runs much deeper than just an emphasis on story.

Most animation tends to be dismissed as "cartoons for children". Some films are quite definitely pitched squarely at young children and are pretty much unwatchable for adults — I had trouble just sitting through the trailers for the recent Peppa Pig movie — and some are unquestionably suitable for adults only, but in the middle there's a range that are suitable for a wide span of ages and that's where things get interesting.

Some films are clearly children's films with some adult humour added on top. The characters have no great depth and their motivations are simple, and the core storyline is basic, straightforward and easy to understand. There are few or no powerfully emotional sequences and the parts that go over the heads of younger members of the audience don't change the meaning of the film in any way. Much like a pantomime, a five year old and a fifty year old see the same film; the latter sees it with a couple of dick jokes in it but it's basically the same experience. I'm looking at you, Minions. But only once, because you're too shallow to justify a second look.

But some films — and I include most of the Disney films and many of the Pixar ones in this group — are significantly different. There's a greater emotional depth to them. The characters and their motivations are far more complex, there's a greater maturity to the stories being told and they have a multitude of threads that interact in intricate ways, and the overall demand on the audience is far higher. The core of the film is pitched at an adult's level and children miss out on some of what's going on at the heart of the story because they don't have the life experience to appreciate it in an adult way. Children don't have the understanding to see how eighteen years of systematic psychological abuse affects Rapunzel's view of the world, or what it means for Elsa to cut herself off from her beloved sister because she thinks that's the only way to keep her safe, or how Riley's parents set up the situation that ultimately leads to her inability to cope, or what lack of fulfilment does to Mr Incredible's home life and what that means for Elastigirl. Children enjoy the adventure but they miss out on many of the layers of meaning and richness of emotion. They have a fundamentally different experience from adults because at heart the films are adult films with all the depth and complexity of any adult-oriented live-action production. And that's why the films keep working so well.

I agree with this but occasionally animated films from other studios get it right, maybe not so much on emotion but story wise like The Lego Movie which promoted creativity being a good thing or Shrek where the moral is that beauty is skin deep. 

Pixar and Disney aren't afraid of going dark, Zootropolis had plenty of quite perilous moments but one that always struck was Big Hero 6 when

SPOILER: Click to show

Hiro orders Baymax to kill Callahan which you'd expect in a live action fim but not in a PG rated kids film

 

You compare to Minions or The Secret Life of Pets and you realise how lackluster those films are in comparison. Pets tries to go for the emotional core but fails because it isn't earned. Their saving grace is the animation and gags. 

[Deleted]

I finally got around to seeing Finding Dory. I think it's actually a bit better than Finding Nemo, though there are places where it's more that a little predictable. Not one of Pixar's best but definitely worth seeing.

Stay for the credits. All of the credits.

[Michael]

Finally saw Finding Dory on Friday in Leeds. As Matthew, I found it a bit too predictable and there were a few coincidences too many for my liking, but overall I really liked it. If they'll ever make another sequel: Please make Dory a little less annoying.
Bluray is preordered, but I doubt that I'll be seeing it again in the cinema.

Oddly enough, I found the pre-film feature Piper to be even better than Finding Dory.

Also, after seeing the trailers, I can't wait to finally see Moana. And Sing seems to be also fun.

[Jon]

Aug 8, 2016 5:13:21 GMT Michael said:

Finally saw Finding Dory on Friday in Leeds. As Matthew, I found it a bit too predictable and there were a few coincidences too many for my liking, but overall I really liked it. If they'll ever make another sequel: Please make Dory a little less annoying.
Bluray is preordered, but I doubt that I'll be seeing it again in the cinema.

Oddly enough, I found the pre-film feature Piper to be even better than Finding Dory.

Also, after seeing the trailers, I can't wait to finally see Moana. And Sing seems to be also fun.

Moana looks really good, I want to see Pete's Dragon which comes out this week and also Storks the latter is from the studio behind the Lego Movie

[David J]

Okay I can officially say that whilst Finding Nemo 2 was not needed, Finding Dory deserves a place amongst Pixar's better films. Just not their best.

The film works on its own terms. The pacing is faster than Finding Nemo, which I found a bit disconcerting at first as we see familiar characters flit by. But it fits within this story about a frenetic Dory going back and forth trying to find her parents. Whilst the story feels familiar structure wise there's plenty of new adventures and characters to enjoy

The animation and acting is top notch as usual

My only problem is that the writing was digging itself into big holes at times, and dug its way out in the most convenient ways possible. I bought how characters were able to get around the aquarium out of water, but when we got to the final act I was scratching my head thinking how they were going to get out of this one.

And they did that in the most bonkers way possible. I was laughing at how funny and utterly stupid the plot had gotten all of a sudden.

Not Pixars finest hour, but this film had the makings of a great film that could have been as good as Finding Nemo for its own reasons.

Definitely not an unnecessary sequel

Oh and the short, Piper, was absolutely adorable

[David J]

Here's my best Pixar films (though I've yet to see The Good Dinosaur) to date

1. Inside Out    
2. WALL-E
3. Finding Nemo    
4. Ratatouille
5. Toy Story
6. Up
7. Toy Story 3
8. The Incredibles
9. Toy Story 2
10. Finding Dory
11. Bugs Life
12. Monsters Inc
13. Cars
14. Brave
15. Monsters University
16. Cars 2