Evita

[SageStageMgr]

Aug 7, 2017 15:30:29 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today.

I didn't say I hated the design. In fact I said I rather liked the tour.

[BurlyBeaR]

Aug 7, 2017 15:56:40 GMT SageStageMgr said:

Aug 7, 2017 15:30:29 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today.

I didn't say I hated the design. In fact I said I rather liked the tour.

I was referring to Martello's comments and others earlier in the thread. 

[longinthetooth]

I had never seen Evita until the Dominion, as mentioned by Martello - but I absolutely loved it (Pellow apart - I'm sure I read something somewhere that said the trees in nearby Soho Square were less wooden). No accounting for tastes1

[BurlyBeaR]

The thing is, we've all been here before. For some people who have seen the original west end productions then nothing else will ever compare. I remember my first spat with someone in the old forum (might have been mr Barnaby) was about the first Priscilla tour and the perception that it must be crap because there wasn't a 'proper' bus. Well I saw it and the bus wasn't a full bus but it made no difference to the fact that it was a fabulous, joyful production.

I never saw the west end Evita either and, hear this. I DONT CARE. Because like generations of future theatregoers, no matter how brilliant it might have been, it's now history. And ancient history at that. And the number of people who did see it gets fewer every year and SOON YOULL ALL BE DEAD!

These tours are bringing shows to people around the country who are just as discerning as the west end audience, (more so, if some of the goings on in London are anything to judge by) and the sneery, pompous attitude that touring productions are intrinsically rubbish is just blatant elitism and rampant snobbery. Unless you're a theatre owner, or a producer, you don't actually know what stacks up financially and if you did you'd be doing the job yourself. So get over 'yo self!

There.

BBx


Disclaimer: none of the above applies to Kenwrights Spamalot tour which it's truly f****** hideous. I thank yow!

[SageStageMgr]

So we're agreed the Grandage revival is the only production of Evita anyone is allowed to like.

[ali973]

This needs to be broken down. Yes, There are less and less people around who will remember the original version- however, the original Hal Prince version is iconic, and there is a good reason why puritans will only accept this version and think that others are inferior. 

I have to disagree with you regarding the quality of the tours though. The tours making the regional circuit in England is certainly not up to West End standards in MOST cases. With exception to Cameron Mackintosh's work, and a few handpicked productions (Matilda comes to mind, and a few of Sonia Friedman's productions as well), the majority of musicals traveling around are extremely second rate, and in no way on the same par as the shows that played in London before going on tour. Unlike US tours were some elements might be downsized or scaled down, they tend to maintain the same quality and essence you'll see on Broadway, in most cases at least. In the UK though, you have third class imitation shows of Hairspray, Adams Family, Wedding Singer or Shrek that are quite second tier, and wouldn't dream of showing their face in a London stage. The only reason Evita dares, is because it's Evita. 

Your comment about what stacks up financially is a different conversation. As end users and customers, we're not talking about the business case or financial success of these shows. We're simply talking about their artistic merit and quality, which is lacking on both counts. 

[BurlyBeaR]

But not everything is, or has to be the same as the "iconic" original. Who made that law?

If you insist that everything after the original is inferior, and can't be allowed to be seen then the show will die.

Your attitude to this production of Evita screams snobbery and elitism. Your post above and earlier in this thread does nothing to dispel that. I don't know why you're going to see it, given that you seem to be looking forward to slamming it.

Do you think that every show should remain only in the west end, or should only be allowed to tour if the production values that existed in the west end can be sustained? Do you realise what that would do to British (outside London) theatre. Seriously?

[distantcousin]

Aug 7, 2017 12:49:35 GMT theatremadness said:

Aug 7, 2017 11:28:34 GMT jgblunners said:

Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave.

(also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna)

So from what I can gather, that particular passage that is repeated in that clip is where most Eva's will sing it up the octave, as you'd expect. That "he supports you" phrase is heard twice (I think) in A New Argentina before you get to that final one, and it's there I believe that most Eva's keep it down the octave, ever since the Kenwright production started, anyhow. I'm sure it's to preserve their voice so as to not sing that hard phrase 3 times in quick succession.

I know I quoted you jgblunners but the rest is just my opinion, not directed and you or anyone! haha. No one bar no one has the robust vocal stamina of Patti LuPone so in my eyes, it's a little unfair to compare. We were spoiled with her being one of the very first!!

I saw the tour twice, one with Emma Hatton and once with Natalie Langston. I could've sworn that they both followed that pattern in A New Argentina: first 2 high phrases sung down the octave, final one sung up. However, when I saw it in London last week, Emma sang down the octave the whole time. So I'm not sure, it could be a show-by-show basis. Seth Rudetsky once said that Patti LuPone had said that she knew if she was going to have a good vocal show by "screw the middle classes", so I'm sure the women know their own voices well enough to know what they have to do to get through Evita!

And moving onto the other conversation about Madonna, I started watching the film a couple of nights ago for the very first time. It's really enjoyable and well made with great performances, Madge included in my opinion. They obviously needed her to carry the film off and that she did. It's a very understated performance and let's not forget that Eva was not a nice person by any means. I don't think Madge plays it wooden, but more ruthless. I really don't care that the keys were transposed for her. It works much better on film to not have her belting her tits off and the lower keys help establish Madonna's more subtle take on the role. The supporting cast are also great, some of the song changes are a little weird but it all works in the end.

You're right - and Alan Parker said himself at the time that the keys were lowered for most of the score (Eva, Che and other roles) because it would have come across as too shouty and overbearing on a massive cinema screen.

[distantcousin]

Can anyone tell me if La Hatton does all performances?

[AliceFearnFan2212]

Aug 7, 2017 20:47:53 GMT distantcousin said:

Can anyone tell me if La Hatton does all performances?

She does every show apart from Monday

[Dawnstar]

Who is now the alternate Eva? I gather Natalie Langston isn't doing the London run. Has the understudy been promoted or has a new alternate been bought in?

[LaLuPone]

Aug 7, 2017 21:55:57 GMT Dawnstar said:

Who is now the alternate Eva? I gather Natalie Langston isn't doing the London run. Has the understudy been promoted or has a new alternate been bought in?

Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is.

[daniel]

Natalie Langston is indeed alternate for the London run - not sure what her scheduled performances are!

[Dawnstar]

Aug 7, 2017 22:00:18 GMT LaLuPone said:

Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is.

Oh, right. She wasn't on the cast list when the London cast were announced so I'd assumed she wasn't doing it. I may have to try to finally see her Eva, having not managed to do so back in 2011.

[theatremadness]

Aug 7, 2017 22:02:45 GMT Dawnstar said:

Aug 7, 2017 22:00:18 GMT LaLuPone said:

Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is.

Oh, right. She wasn't on the cast list when the London cast were announced so I'd assumed she wasn't doing it. I may have to try to finally see her Eva, having not managed to do so back in 2011.

You're right, she wasn't announced initially - I think some kinks were still being worked out - but her name is on the poster outside the theatre, so yes she's 100% in it. Natalie was on tonight so worth keeping an eye on Monday's as a possibility for her scheduled show, as per what AFF said!  

[BGLowe]

Aug 7, 2017 22:12:12 GMT theatremadness said:

Aug 7, 2017 22:02:45 GMT Dawnstar said:

Oh, right. She wasn't on the cast list when the London cast were announced so I'd assumed she wasn't doing it. I may have to try to finally see her Eva, having not managed to do so back in 2011.

You're right, she wasn't announced initially - I think some kinks were still being worked out - but her name is on the poster outside the theatre, so yes she's 100% in it. Natalie was on tonight so worth keeping an eye on Monday's as a possibility for her scheduled show, as per what AFF said!  

She did the Thurs matinee last week but that could have been because press night was the night before.

[ali973]

Aug 7, 2017 19:44:49 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

But not everything is, or has to be the same as the "iconic" original. Who made that law?

If you insist that everything after the original is inferior, and can't be allowed to be seen then the show will die.

Your attitude to this production of Evita screams snobbery and elitism. Your post above and earlier in this thread does nothing to dispel that. I don't know why you're going to see it, given that you seem to be looking forward to slamming it.

Do you think that every show should remain only in the west end, or should only be allowed to tour if the production values that existed in the west end can be sustained? Do you realise what that would do to British (outside London) theatre. Seriously?

I think I might not have done a good job explaining my position. Chicago has been a perfect example of how a revival (a stripped down version, to boot) has worked in the show's favor. So, no it's not the law, but the Hal Prince version made Evita what it is today, and I could understand why someone thinks that his version of Evita, Phantom and Sweeney Todd could be sacrosanct. 

I did not even make this claim myself about Evita. I saw the Grandage version, and though I thought it lacked steam, I thought it was fabulously staged and designed. 

I have no shame if my attitude screams snobbery and elitism. The lack of quality and the compromises the producers have done to the material, the artistic and creative value deserves to be met with criticism. I don't understand why my attitude is an issue given that this third tier production has the chutzpah to appear in a West End stage and in the world's most important theatre destination. In fact, I take offense at its audacity. This is not a sub-part production that is naively or by accident playing in the West End. Its producers are fully aware of its choices and has clearly put their financial gains above all, and compromised the quality of the show knowing they'd get away with it. No, not good for them. I'm all for producers doing well and earning their hard earned risks and investment, but not when it compromises the quality of the production. 

On your final comment and the consequences of what would happen to British theatre outside of London,  I'm generally against half-ass productions touring the provinces, as I genuinely believe the standards in UK commercial theatre in the provinces needs to improve. But I also understand the limitations. What I do hope would happen is that if these productions must exist, they should exist outside of London, thank you very much. 

[SageStageMgr]

Aug 8, 2017 12:06:52 GMT ali973 said:

Aug 7, 2017 19:44:49 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

But not everything is, or has to be the same as the "iconic" original. Who made that law?

If you insist that everything after the original is inferior, and can't be allowed to be seen then the show will die.

Your attitude to this production of Evita screams snobbery and elitism. Your post above and earlier in this thread does nothing to dispel that. I don't know why you're going to see it, given that you seem to be looking forward to slamming it.

Do you think that every show should remain only in the west end, or should only be allowed to tour if the production values that existed in the west end can be sustained? Do you realise what that would do to British (outside London) theatre. Seriously?

I think I might not have done a good job explaining my position. Chicago has been a perfect example of how a revival (a stripped down version, to boot) has worked in the show's favor. So, no it's not the law, but the Hal Prince version made Evita what it is today, and I could understand why someone thinks that his version of Evita, Phantom and Sweeney Todd could be sacrosanct. 

I did not even make this claim myself about Evita. I saw the Grandage version, and though I thought it lacked steam, I thought it was fabulously staged and designed. 

I have no shame if my attitude screams snobbery and elitism. The lack of quality and the compromises the producers have done to the material, the artistic and creative value deserves to be met with criticism. I don't understand why my attitude is an issue given that this third tier production has the chutzpah to appear in a West End stage and in the world's most important theatre destination. In fact, I take offense at its audacity. This is not a sub-part production that is naively or by accident playing in the West End. Its producers are fully aware of its choices and has clearly put their financial gains above all, and compromised the quality of the show knowing they'd get away with it. No, not good for them. I'm all for producers doing well and earning their hard earned risks and investment, but not when it compromises the quality of the production. 

On your final comment and the consequences of what would happen to British theatre outside of London,  I'm generally against half-ass productions touring the provinces, as I genuinely believe the standards in UK commercial theatre in the provinces needs to improve. But I also understand the limitations. What I do hope would happen is that if these productions must exist, they should exist outside of London, thank you very much. 

Spot on - exactly.

[Deleted]

Aug 7, 2017 17:07:51 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

The thing is, we've all been here before. For some people who have seen the original west end productions then nothing else will ever compare. I remember my first spat with someone in the old forum (might have been mr Barnaby) was about the first Priscilla tour and the perception that it must be crap because there wasn't a 'proper' bus. Well I saw it and the bus wasn't a full bus but it made no difference to the fact that it was a fabulous, joyful production.

I never saw the west end Evita either and, hear this. I DONT CARE. Because like generations of future theatregoers, no matter how brilliant it might have been, it's now history. And ancient history at that. And the number of people who did see it gets fewer every year and SOON YOULL ALL BE DEAD!

These tours are bringing shows to people around the country who are just as discerning as the west end audience, (more so, if some of the goings on in London are anything to judge by) and the sneery, pompous attitude that touring productions are intrinsically rubbish is just blatant elitism and rampant snobbery. Unless you're a theatre owner, or a producer, you don't actually know what stacks up financially and if you did you'd be doing the job yourself. So get over 'yo self!

There.

BBx


Disclaimer: none of the above applies to Kenwrights Spamalot tour which it's truly f****** hideous. I thank yow!

I can't speak for the differences between productions, all I know is that when I saw the show at the Dominion it was poor. The fact that the same show was put into two theatres as different as the Phoenix as the Dominion suggests it probably didn't work very well in one of them, and I'd wager it was the Dominion.

[BurlyBeaR]

Aug 8, 2017 12:06:52 GMT ali973 said:

On your final comment and the consequences of what would happen to British theatre outside of London,  I'm generally against half-ass productions touring the provinces, as I genuinely believe the standards in UK commercial theatre in the provinces needs to improve. But I also understand the limitations. What I do hope would happen is that if these productions must exist, they should exist outside of London, thank you very much. 

Because we gave to make sure there's plenty of room in London for Thriller Live, Stomp, Motown, The Mousetrap, and ten years of WWRY. 

[TallPaul]

Being a northerner, I know my place, thank you very much.

[Deleted]

Aug 8, 2017 13:35:19 GMT BurlyBeaR said:

Aug 8, 2017 12:06:52 GMT ali973 said:

On your final comment and the consequences of what would happen to British theatre outside of London,  I'm generally against half-ass productions touring the provinces, as I genuinely believe the standards in UK commercial theatre in the provinces needs to improve. But I also understand the limitations. What I do hope would happen is that if these productions must exist, they should exist outside of London, thank you very much. 

Because we gave to make sure there's plenty of room in London for Thriller Live, Stomp, Motown, The Mousetrap, and ten years of WWRY. 

Seems a bit harsh since all of the shows that you've listed are of the exact same low standard as this production of Evita.
Let's keep tours out of London altogether and make room for new musicals/quality Broadway transfers. I agree with Ali on that.

[distantcousin]

Aug 7, 2017 21:48:52 GMT AliceFearnFan2212 said:

Aug 7, 2017 20:47:53 GMT distantcousin said:

Can anyone tell me if La Hatton does all performances?

She does every show apart from Monday

Great, thank you!

[showbizkid]

Saw this last night. I actually preferred it to the 2008 Elena Rogers ALW revival. Sure the cast are too young and it's not a A list standard production but I thought the cast was terrific. Emma Hatton however played the role most unlikeable and her characterisation of the role just ended up coming across as too hard. We need to love Eva and be charmed by her. That said she sang it well. Worth seeing - one of ALW's best scores! 7/10.

[westendwendy]

Aug 5, 2017 12:30:17 GMT SageStageMgr said:

I genuinely laughed out loud when my right honourable friend said the Kenwright Evita is better than Grandage's 2006 revival. Each to their own and all... but that's just bonkers!

I also preferred the Kenwright version to the 2006 revival!!!