|
|
Post by parsley1 on Oct 28, 2024 20:47:05 GMT
The constant mocking of the state of the NHS
And I refer to the physical state of the buildings and fabric
Got me thinking that most theatre venues
Public and commercial
Are just are badly maintained and looked after
Why is this?
They don’t make enough money?
Ticket prices are not high enough?
It’s interesting as theatre is a business
If you go to a chanel shop
Or the savoy
You don’t see sewage blocked toilets and disregard
What is it about the theatre which makes it fall into the needy category
Entitlement and undignified begging
At the Barbican Pit there is a sign on the toilets apologising they are not in the state they would like them to be
And most of the cubicles don’t flush
What were venues doing during Covid whilst staff were sitting at home being paid for doing nothing?
Is there no pride taken in anything anymore?
No sense of duty or pride?
If theatres are going to allow themselves to be used as “public buildings” they should keep pace with the requisite demands which come with the territory
The only venues I have seen half decent conveniences and good maintenance are Vienna Opera and Glyndebourne
|
|
5,030 posts
|
Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 29, 2024 7:42:48 GMT
I would add ROH and ENO to the list having good flushers.
The Barbican bogs have always been terrible and cruisey. Thankfully building work is currently happening
I don't mind terrible loos in an ACE venue. However, in a West End theatre it is ridiculous but at least that then matches the dreary programming.
Lavatories aside we do have great venues such Watermill and Wiltons
|
|
|
|
Post by kit66 on Oct 29, 2024 8:28:47 GMT
After a 10 year hiatus I ventured back to the Barbican to see "Totoro" and was "pleased" to see the toilets - which had always given the London Dungeons a run for its money! - hadn't been cleaned since so vowed to NEVER go back to that venue whatever is on.
|
|
1,489 posts
|
Post by BVM on Oct 29, 2024 9:18:42 GMT
I agree. The ATG touring theatres (and some of the London ones) are an absolute disgrace. Largely I suspect as they don't want to spend any money or the bare minimum. Twas ever thus with them....
LWT and DMT are better. The independent (and often newer) ones tend to be the best. Salford Lowry, Birmingham Hippodrome etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Oct 29, 2024 10:09:30 GMT
I assume it's money and the fact that improving/maintaining the building comes right at the bottom of the list of spending priorities. This is not necessarily the wrong decision, look at all those truly awful West End flea pits like the Duchess Theatre which manage to keep going regardless. For years the Almeida toilets were in a portacabin and they were still successful. The smartest trick is to make a positive virtue out of dilapidation and poor seats and facilities like Wiltons has done, and the Coronet to some extent.
|
|
19,856 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 29, 2024 10:47:00 GMT
It’s really very simple for me. If a public building doesn’t have enough working toilets and the ability to provide a free, hygienic drink of water for the number of people using it, it shouldn’t be operating. I don’t care how historically important the building is, in this day and age all is possible. It needs the necessary investment and owners choosing adequate facilities over cramming in the maximum number of seats.
|
|
|
|
Post by aspieandy on Oct 29, 2024 11:23:12 GMT
In the WE, if time allows, beter off swerving into a hotel bar.
|
|
|
|
Post by SilverFox on Oct 29, 2024 12:44:39 GMT
I agree. The ATG touring theatres (and some of the London ones) are an absolute disgrace. Largely I suspect as they don't want to spend any money or the bare minimum. Twas ever thus with them.... LWT and DMT are better. The independent (and often newer) ones tend to be the best. Salford Lowry, Birmingham Hippodrome etc.
TBF this is nothing new, from the early days of the West End when theatres were thrown-up as cheaply as possible, many in the speculative hope that they would be purchased as part of a larger development. The Playhouse - 1882 - was built because it was thought Charing Cross Station - opened in 1863 but bursting at the seams and in need of expansion would require the theatre site, Hungerford Bridge was subsequently widened in 1887, but the railway declined to buy the theatre. One of the precursors of ATG, Apollo Leisure, were notorious for not spending on the buildings. Although the National Lottery has been around for longer than some of the TB members, it was this that spurred the major overhaul and (re)building of many venues, but arguably allowed ACE (as directed by several Govts) to cut funding.
There have been many studies lamenting the state of UK arts facilities. The Arts Council of GB's "Housing the Arts in Great Britain" in 1959, stated in the conclusion ""Many provincial theatres, especially repertory theatres and many concert halls have become physically shabby and unattractive through lack of funds to renovate and refurbish themselves" ..... "Much could be done to rehabilitate those mouldering buildings if there were available a central loan fund (administered by the Arts Council or a national Trust for the Buildings for the Arts) from which long-term interest-free loans could be made to give these premises a comprehensive facelift and new look" The Theatres Trust report "Act Now! Modernising London's West End Theatres" 2003, reports stated "If the West End's theatres are to thrive for another hundred years we need to act now. The VAT on West End ticket sales alone, recouped by the Treasury now amounts to over £48million pa - nearly three times the amount needed to annually to refurbish those theatres." ".. the total requirement is such that there is no alternative but to look to Government or other outside agencies for some kind of matching assistance". The 'ticket sales alone' bit is interesting as theatres are widely proven to enhance the immediate area they sit on, though promoting footfall, and additional spend in bars, restaurants, shops and hotels etc. The development of Sheffield Theatres has transformed a once ugly and neglected area of the city.
Stephen Joseph (1921-67) believed that “Theatres should self-destruct after seven years”, to enable reinvention. Clearly impractical, but we currently find ourselves with a stock of theatres which are all too often stuck in a time warp, both technically and comfortwise. The architect Frank Matcham returned to many theatres within a few years to expand or improve the facilities, but now altering one of his surviving theatres is almost sacrosanct. Therein lies the biggest problem. Developers would like to maximise the most profitable aspects of rebuilding, placing a minimal auditorium in the least attractive area, if at all. Requiring that a new theatre, replacing an older one, would need to be as good, if not better, would be problematical to achieve - much like the requirements in cities for 'affordable housing'. Statutorily Listing a building is probably too restrictive - but loosen the restrictions at your peril. The St James Theatre (Other Palace) nearly didn't happen - the space was left empty for years and the developers sought to repurpose it, having demolished the Westminster Theatre and built the profitable flats. The cinemas planned as a replacement of the Marble Arch Odeon will not now happen. There is no easy practical solution.
I have just returned from an organised tour of many of Hamburg's theatres. They are immaculately maintained, many have expensive repertoire programming, most have their own workshops / wardrobes / props departments etc, but the worsening German economy makes them all fearful of the future. Many are state owned, and there have been several new, mainly musical houses, built in the past 25 years. These new theatres, mostly privately owned - have well-equipped stages, extensive f-o-h areas with vast cloakrooms, bars and, well, the space lacking in London, but have dire auditoria. Big empty black barns, with red seats. The Neue Flora Theater was built in 1988 specifically for Phantom of the Opera, which they thought would run forever there. The stage area is unbelievable, the f-o-h amazing, the location not so good, and the auditorium! Anything less like the Paris Opera would be hard to imagine. Two thousand seats in a drab warehouse. They seemed genuinely envious of the "glamour" of UK theatres.
Sometimes we only see the disadvantages, and ignore the assets. But once they're gone, they're gone!
|
|
|
|
Post by parsley1 on Oct 29, 2024 13:41:45 GMT
In the WE, if time allows, beter off swerving into a hotel bar. always But it’s sad as it cheapens and devalues the experience of theatre And diminishes it’s importance for me |
|
|
|
Post by ladidah on Oct 29, 2024 14:44:23 GMT
The worst theatre for me is the Fortune. 2 toilet stalls.
|
|
|
|
Post by xanady on Oct 29, 2024 16:16:05 GMT
ladidah,I agree on the Fortune and even worse a few years ago if you were caught short in Act 1 of a previous show and bumped into the woman in black making her first entrance down the stalls aisle lol…you could die of shock if it was your first time seeing the show!
|
|
5,119 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Phantom of London on Oct 29, 2024 20:31:51 GMT
In the WE, if time allows, beter off swerving into a hotel bar. always But it’s sad as it cheapens and devalues the experience of theatre And diminishes it’s importance for me There Parsley you being a person of class and opulence, then I would’ve thought you would’ve had access to all the lounges and not rub shoulders with us peasants. |
|
|
|
Post by parsley1 on Oct 29, 2024 21:17:13 GMT
always But it’s sad as it cheapens and devalues the experience of theatre And diminishes it’s importance for me There Parsley you being a person of class and opulence, then I would’ve thought you would’ve had access to all the lounges and not rub shoulders with us peasants. They are often just as bad 🙂↔️ |
|
|
|
Post by marob on Oct 29, 2024 22:03:57 GMT
The state of the Liverpool Empire is just one of many reasons I can’t stand ATG. The carpets are sticky, the plasterwork and proscenium are battered with chunks taken out of them, the curtain’s tattered and falling apart. The one time I sat in the circle there was so little room that if I wasn’t sat next to a little girl then I would not have been able to physically sit down. In the downstairs loos the space in the cubicle was so tight that I had to stand with my legs bestride the loo in order to open/close the door. The only place they’re interested in spending money is in the bars and their precious Ambassador Lounges, rest of the building is in dire straits.
|
|
3,331 posts
|
Post by david on Oct 29, 2024 22:10:20 GMT
The state of the Liverpool Empire is just one of many reasons I can’t stand ATG. The carpets are sticky, the plasterwork and proscenium are battered with chunks taken out of them, the curtain’s tattered and falling apart. The one time I sat in the circle there was so little room that if I wasn’t sat next to a little girl then I would not have been able to physically sit down. In the downstairs loos the space in the cubicle was so tight that I had to stand with my legs bestride the loo in order to open/close the door. The only place they’re interested in spending money is in the bars and their precious Ambassador Lounges, rest of the building is in dire straits. The whole building definitely needs some desperately needed refurbishment. Every time I go there it just looks terrible. |
|
|
|
Post by parsley1 on Oct 29, 2024 22:11:23 GMT
It is quite a serious matter
My sister refuses to attend the theatre due to appalling facilities and badly maintained buildings and cramped seats
She permits the NT rarely
But still is angry after the visit if need arises to go to the conveniences
|
|
4,046 posts
|
Post by Dawnstar on Oct 29, 2024 23:16:41 GMT
I assume it's money and the fact that improving/maintaining the building comes right at the bottom of the list of spending priorities. This is not necessarily the wrong decision, look at all those truly awful West End flea pits like the Duchess Theatre which manage to keep going regardless. I think the ladies' loos in the Duchess aren't too bad by WE theatre standards. The worst theatre for me is the Fortune. 2 toilet stalls. After experiencing the Fortune loos for the first time last year I now use the ones at the ROH instead, as it's so near. I reckon I spend enough on tickets at the ROH each season that I can justify nipping into their loos occasionally! |
|
858 posts
|
Post by duncan on Oct 30, 2024 7:59:11 GMT
In the WE, if time allows, beter off swerving into a hotel bar. always But it’s sad as it cheapens and devalues the experience of theatre And diminishes it’s importance for me Sitting next to drunkards swilling foul smelling wine diminshes the experience of theatre for me. |
|
|
|
Post by kit66 on Oct 30, 2024 8:55:51 GMT
Surprised no one has mentioned the Arts perhaps due to impending closure.
Always amazed "back in the day" the venue was also the Unicorn Theatre for children.
Imagine school parties using those toliets - or the lack of them!
|
|
|
|
Post by ladidah on Oct 30, 2024 13:05:24 GMT
The best one was for Starlight Express the other month, must have been 50+ toilets, seating everywhere, about 7 bartenders keeping queues reasonable.
|
|
8,209 posts
|
Post by alece10 on Oct 31, 2024 12:49:07 GMT
The mens at the Fortune are no better. It's literally buttock to buttock for the 2 urinals in the men's.
But worst ever has to be the mens toilets in the old Union Theatre. Literally a hole in the ground and a wall to pee up against.
|
|
5,030 posts
|
Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 31, 2024 13:06:29 GMT
The state of union (toilets)!
Thankfully the new one is much better, shame not much appeals in the venue
|
|
