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Post by craigbowker on Aug 14, 2024 8:59:23 GMT
I suspect it didn't help that we can see a version of Aladdin every Christmas in the UK if we want to, and for a lot cheaper than Disney prices! Yes I think panto definitely play a part. Especially as the top ones have flying carpets etc so it really didn't offer much else apart from the music. As much as i enjoyed it, Disneys aladdin also had panto elements/scenes and I don't think it worked as well as other disney shows. If they can rework Hercules to be more like Frozen (balance the disney with musical theatre) it could work well. Disney Theatricals is an absolute mess right now. Bob Iger should honestly clean house with decision makers in that business unit. It is shocking that their long running, money-printing show opened in the EARLY 1990s and somehow they decided to STOP taking that creative approach to their new productions. |
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Post by David J on Aug 14, 2024 15:16:22 GMT
Yes I think panto definitely play a part. Especially as the top ones have flying carpets etc so it really didn't offer much else apart from the music. As much as i enjoyed it, Disneys aladdin also had panto elements/scenes and I don't think it worked as well as other disney shows. If they can rework Hercules to be more like Frozen (balance the disney with musical theatre) it could work well. Disney Theatricals is an absolute mess right now. Bob Iger should honestly clean house with decision makers in that business unit. It is shocking that their long running, money-printing show opened in the EARLY 1990s and somehow they decided to STOP taking that creative approach to their new productions. It's not just Disney Theatricals but the whole of Disney that's a mess right now. Marvel and Star Wars have declined in popularity under their watch. Disney+ is loosing subscribers. Their stock is not great. And its actually 'weatherman' Bob Iger that's the heart of the problem. He's been lucky with the Marvels acquisition but it's becoming obvious he does not have a bone of creative vision in him. The 1990s was when Michael Eisner was in charge and yes not everything was perfect under him by the time he left (Disneyland Paris and the straight-to-video sequels) but there's a reason everyone considers Walt Disney's best years were under the man himself and Eisner. They were creative and took risks. And now Bob Iger wants to tear up more of Walt Disney World, that Disney risked his money, insurance and house to build, to make it his own IP land. Replacing Splash Mountain with Tiyana's Biyou Adventure was never about getting re-writing the wrongs of the 'racist' original ride (even though most people riding the original would barely know it's origins, and the new ride is boring and keeps breaking down) it was all about putting in an IP that was created under Bob Iger. Now the lake river and Tom Sawyer island in Frontierland is going to be filled in for a Cars land. Admittedly that area isn't that popular but you could have at least turned the boat into Tiyana's restaurant boat. And Cars hasn't been popular for a while now. There's also uproar over the Muppet Vision 3D show is being got rid of for the new Monsters Inc land. Again not very popular but it was Jim Henson's last project. And one of the Splash Mountains in the other parks is going to be re-themed to the Lion King. The rubbish 2019 remake not the original. The point is, Bob Iger wants to replace everything to do with Walt himself and replace it with his own legacy. To reiterate, he want's to leave his own legacy. A legacy of remakes of better films and IPs, most of which he didn't create but bought or was lucky to have creators like John Lasseter (Princess and the Frog, Frozen, Wreck-it-Ralph, and Zootopia was overseen by him as creative adviser at Disney) and Marvel's Kevin Feige (up until Endgame and Spiderman No Way Home) to prop him up. And the Greatest Showman is another IP he has bought from 20th Century Fox. A deal by the way that cost Disney company a lot of money so they're desperate to milk any property Fox had (Deadpool and Wolverine has certainly been a saviour for them this year). And I'm sure it will run a few years in Drury Lane, but I still don't see the lasting impact, apart from some songs, that the film has had. Haven't seen any Greatest Showman themed clothing or merchandise in years whilst you still see Elsa and Anna's faces everywhere These videos explain more about the Parks situation and Iger but just to say Disney has not been in a good shape for years now. And for comparison watch the the trailer for the Dark Universe land that Universal is going to be opening soon. You can see the passion oozing from that. Along with Nintendoland, more Harry Potter, How to Train your Dragon. Okay IP (but then I don't think anybody would take the risks Walt Disney took these days) but you can see Universal has been working hard to create some awesome new parks. Disney is scared behind the scenes |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 15:33:30 GMT
Bob Igor is massively to blame dating way back when he bought fox. It's saddled disney with a load of debt.
Also not only is Disney Plus dropping subscribers, its been losing money since it launched in 2020. Its never been profitable.
The only aspect of disney making money has been the parks and resorts.
They are starting to invest in the parks again finally, and there were loads of positive announcements at D23. Inside Out 2 has been massive, and there are many sequels planned to popular animated franchises so hopefully the tide is turning a bit now financially (if not quite creatively). But it's still a company in a lot of trouble
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Post by David J on Aug 14, 2024 16:01:15 GMT
The only aspect of disney making money has been the parks and resorts. They are starting to invest in the parks again finally, and there were loads of positive announcements at D23. Inside Out 2 has been massive, and there are many sequels planned to popular animated franchises so hopefully the tide is turning a bit now financially (if not quite creatively). But it's still a company in a lot of trouble Not really It's been reported that Disney park attendance has been low this summer. Partly because of the rising prices, the economy not in good shape, the new attractions are not that good (the new Epcot is like a mess hall and Tiyou's Biyou Adventure keeps breaking down) and Universal is eating into Disney's lunch money. And a lot of that investment Disney announced is going towards projects that have already been announced and huge amount is going towards four new cruise ships being built. For Disney it's cheaper and less hassle to just replace or re-theme attractions than try and build substantially new lands like Universal is doing. Not that the original Walt Disney World has lots of room left but people have been pointing out that there's still some land left behind Frontierland that you could have built this Cars attraction. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2024 16:12:16 GMT
The only aspect of disney making money has been the parks and resorts. They are starting to invest in the parks again finally, and there were loads of positive announcements at D23. Inside Out 2 has been massive, and there are many sequels planned to popular animated franchises so hopefully the tide is turning a bit now financially (if not quite creatively). But it's still a company in a lot of trouble Not really It's been reported that Disney park attendance has been low this summer. Partly because of the rising prices, the economy not in good shape, the new attractions are not that good (the new Epcot is like a mess hall and Tiyou's Biyou Adventure keeps breaking down) and Universal is eating into Disney's lunch money. And a lot of that investment Disney announced is going towards projects that have already been announced and huge amount is going towards four new cruise ships being built. For Disney it's cheaper and less hassle to just replace or re-theme attractions than try and build substantially new lands like Universal is doing. Not that the original Walt Disney World has lots of room left but people have been pointing out that there's still some land left behind Frontierland that you could have built this Cars attraction. Yes attendance has started to drop off, but park profits in recent years has been high. And for many quarters one of the only parts of the company turning a profit. Largely thanks to things like genie plus/lightning lanes and food and merch. The cruise line has also been a good money earner so it's no surprise they are investing there. Most of the projects at D23 had been talked about, but not formally announced. The backlash against the blue sky stuff has been big and dented disneys reputation further. Hence Josh Dimaro having to clarify this will actually happen. The reaction to Villains Land actually happening was huge, most expected it to be blue sky and never happening. It will all come down to how they pull them off, if the new lands/attractions aren't of the old Disney standard then yes the won't stay on top. But if they pull off fantasy springs level of quality, they will be able to compete with Universal. They don't need a whole new park. Of course things could still get cancelled, but a good chunk are about to break land and this is the biggest confirmation of new projects we've had in years so it is positive steps forward after years of cost cutting. |
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Post by David J on Aug 14, 2024 17:14:16 GMT
Not really It's been reported that Disney park attendance has been low this summer. Partly because of the rising prices, the economy not in good shape, the new attractions are not that good (the new Epcot is like a mess hall and Tiyou's Biyou Adventure keeps breaking down) and Universal is eating into Disney's lunch money. And a lot of that investment Disney announced is going towards projects that have already been announced and huge amount is going towards four new cruise ships being built. For Disney it's cheaper and less hassle to just replace or re-theme attractions than try and build substantially new lands like Universal is doing. Not that the original Walt Disney World has lots of room left but people have been pointing out that there's still some land left behind Frontierland that you could have built this Cars attraction. Yes attendance has started to drop off, but park profits in recent years has been high. And for many quarters one of the only parts of the company turning a profit. Largely thanks to things like genie plus/lightning lanes and food and merch. The cruise line has also been a good money earner so it's no surprise they are investing there. Most of the projects at D23 had been talked about, but not formally announced. The backlash against the blue sky stuff has been big and dented disneys reputation further. Hence Josh Dimaro having to clarify this will actually happen. The reaction to Villains Land actually happening was huge, most expected it to be blue sky and never happening. It will all come down to how they pull them off, if the new lands/attractions aren't of the old Disney standard then yes the won't stay on top. But if they pull off fantasy springs level of quality, they will be able to compete with Universal. They don't need a whole new park. Of course things could still get cancelled, but a good chunk are about to break land and this is the biggest confirmation of new projects we've had in years so it is positive steps forward after years of cost cutting. Thing is it takes a long time to build new attractions. Villains Land was rumoured for a long time, but I think all it took was the overwhelmingly positive response to that Dark Universe trailer for Disney to finally announce Villains Land with a hastily drawn concept art. And Disney has been sitting on their asses when it comes to opening new attractions for years. The Tron Lightcycle Power Run opened in Japan in 2016 and finally came to Walt Disney World last year. And frankly the recent rides like Mickey and Minnie's Railway Adventure, the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, Remy's Ratatouille Adventure range from OK to now Tiyana's Bayou Adventure. I have no confidence in what rides Disney will offer in the future. Disney also had the Ron Disantis debacle, which they could have avoided, and now have to pay taxes to the Florida state like any other theme park. And I reiterate the Disney parks are too expensive for the average income families they used to rely on. Right now they're a luxury item, with a lot of hassle (the Genie Plus for the past few years meant a family has to do a lot of leg work and planning for each day of their stay, what a disaster that was). Thus an article like this www.mousehacking.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-go-to-disney-world shows how much Disney costs on the gate, before you pay for dining, attractions, merchandise and so on. Meanwhile Universal is offering competitive pricing theparkprodigy.com/universal-orlando-vs-disney-world/Even Dolly Parton is topping Disney So here's the kicker, it's going to take Disney years to get these new lands built. You're going to see lots of fenced off areas whilst attractions like Frontierland gets cemented over for Cars land. Meanwhile Universal is going to open Epic Universe next year and families are going to see that, the awesome rides (Nintendoland in Japan looks awesome. I'm no themepark guy but I'd go to that or the already established Harry Potter world), and then the prices and will go there instead. It's already happening and its going to get worse for Disney whilst they try and get their act together. Not to mention the smaller parks Universal is going to be building in the UK, Texas and a horror themed one in Las Vegas. They are seeking to increase their brand to become the number one theme park provider. |
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Post by itsemily on Aug 14, 2024 18:10:30 GMT
Actually if this is the Walt Disney Studios in Paris (soon to become Disney Adventure World) the Lion King (based on the 1992 film not the new one) ride will be a brand new ride in a new area as part of big expansion of the park which will also include a Frozen and Tangled areas (they will be opening first). This park has always until now been fairly small and has never had a water ride before. Sorry I was having issues quoting the above post without having the entire long message in it.
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Post by David J on Aug 14, 2024 18:55:40 GMT
Actually if this is the Walt Disney Studios in Paris (soon to become Disney Adventure World) the Lion King (based on the 1992 film not the new one) ride will be a brand new ride in a new area as part of big expansion of the park which will also include a Frozen and Tangled areas (they will be opening first). This park has always until now been fairly small and has never had a water ride before. Sorry I was having issues quoting the above post without having the entire long message in it. Where's the press release from Disney that its actually a ride of the 1992 version? All I've seen is the concept art which clearly shows the 2019 characters, and some photos of the model of the attraction with tiny figurines that may represent the 1992 or 2019 versions. Forbes has posted this www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/08/12/disney-sets-the-record-straight-about-upcoming-theme-park-attraction/ but that tells me nothing. Only that Disney says they showed the wrong concept art (how convenient) and a lot of PR word salad like "At D23 Josh D’Amaro, chairman of Disney Experiences, seemed to follow the script, rather than the images on the screen behind him, when he described the Lion King land as being "based on this animated classic". However, of course, the computer-animated remake is also based on the animated movie so it didn't appear to rule it out. Likewise, a social media post from Disney referred to the new development as an "attraction and immersive themed area inspired by The Lion King" which could also apply to both of the movies." It could be Disney is going to backtrack and reveal its the 1992 version (I'd prefer that). There's a theory that they'll go back on replacing attractions with either the Monsters Inc/Cars land and put it behind Frontierland area (before announcing they'll need to up the prices again to cover that) |
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Post by itsemily on Aug 14, 2024 19:11:26 GMT
Actually if this is the Walt Disney Studios in Paris (soon to become Disney Adventure World) the Lion King (based on the 1992 film not the new one) ride will be a brand new ride in a new area as part of big expansion of the park which will also include a Frozen and Tangled areas (they will be opening first). This park has always until now been fairly small and has never had a water ride before. Sorry I was having issues quoting the above post without having the entire long message in it. Where's the press release from Disney that its actually a ride of the 1992 version? All I've seen is the concept art which clearly shows the 2019 characters, and some photos of the model of the attraction with tiny figurines that may represent the 1992 or 2019 versions. Forbes has posted this www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/08/12/disney-sets-the-record-straight-about-upcoming-theme-park-attraction/ but that tells me nothing. Only that Disney says they showed the wrong concept art (how convenient) and a lot of PR word salad like "At D23 Josh D’Amaro, chairman of Disney Experiences, seemed to follow the script, rather than the images on the screen behind him, when he described the Lion King land as being "based on this animated classic". However, of course, the computer-animated remake is also based on the animated movie so it didn't appear to rule it out. Likewise, a social media post from Disney referred to the new development as an "attraction and immersive themed area inspired by The Lion King" which could also apply to both of the movies." It could be Disney is going to backtrack and reveal its the 1992 version (I'd prefer that). There's a theory that they'll go back on replacing attractions with either the Monsters Inc/Cars land and put it behind Frontierland area (before announcing they'll need to up the prices again to cover that) I've seen multiples sources stating 1992 version including this article with direct quote from disney themselves blooloop.com/theme-park/news/disneyland-paris-lion-king-attraction-frozen-opening/ |
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Post by David J on Aug 14, 2024 20:53:51 GMT
Where's the press release from Disney that its actually a ride of the 1992 version? All I've seen is the concept art which clearly shows the 2019 characters, and some photos of the model of the attraction with tiny figurines that may represent the 1992 or 2019 versions. Forbes has posted this www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2024/08/12/disney-sets-the-record-straight-about-upcoming-theme-park-attraction/ but that tells me nothing. Only that Disney says they showed the wrong concept art (how convenient) and a lot of PR word salad like "At D23 Josh D’Amaro, chairman of Disney Experiences, seemed to follow the script, rather than the images on the screen behind him, when he described the Lion King land as being "based on this animated classic". However, of course, the computer-animated remake is also based on the animated movie so it didn't appear to rule it out. Likewise, a social media post from Disney referred to the new development as an "attraction and immersive themed area inspired by The Lion King" which could also apply to both of the movies." It could be Disney is going to backtrack and reveal its the 1992 version (I'd prefer that). There's a theory that they'll go back on replacing attractions with either the Monsters Inc/Cars land and put it behind Frontierland area (before announcing they'll need to up the prices again to cover that) I've seen multiples sources stating 1992 version including this article with direct quote from disney themselves blooloop.com/theme-park/news/disneyland-paris-lion-king-attraction-frozen-opening/I'd wait for more visuals or a literal statement that this ride is based on the 1992 film because 'influenced' as some of these articles are saying are way of dancing around the fact that they're using the 2019 version. For all I know, Disney's PR team has told these journalists to downplay this, especially as the Mufasa film isn't getting much enthusiasm. The youtube comments on the teaser trailer was closed off three months ago. BurlyBeaR , go ahead and put these posts in another topic as I'm taking this off Hercules |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Aug 15, 2024 9:39:17 GMT
It's so strange to see people complain about Tiana's Bayou Adventure's having downtime when 1) it's an outside water ride, so they have to close it every time there's lightning in the area; 2) it's full of new animatronics, which always comes with teething issues, and 3) Splash Mountain also broke down frequently. These rides are hugely technical and are always going to have their bumps when they first open. It's a better ride now. Sorry, but it just is. The animatronics are phenomenal. All the talk about it being a failure and a mistake that's being echoed around the internet (I appreciate no one's actually said that here, but you see it a lot elsewhere) are just incorrect. Virtual queue spots at WDW are going instantly, and it's the hardest lightning lane to get in the park under the new queue skipping system. It's been a success on pretty much every level that actually matters.
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Post by Nelly on Aug 15, 2024 9:40:50 GMT
Quite excited to find out that there's other Disney Park fans on here (although guess not so surprising)! I thought the majority of the D23 park announcements were pretty positive, they seem to have gone down pretty well even with hardcore fans with some understandable apprehension from people that are suckers for nostalgia and not messing with original areas.
Some of my favourite Disney+ content are the programmes that go behind the scenes in the parks and give you a bit of insight.
I think the Paris expansions sound exciting to me, one that will certainly make a visit there more appealing.
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Post by Jon on Aug 15, 2024 10:37:51 GMT
I know not everyone likes Disney but they're not a dying company by any stretch, if they are then Paramount Global and Warner Bros. Discovery are corpses because they are doing a lot worse.
The domestic parks being down isn't a surprise because it's also affecting Universal as well who were down 11% in attendance for their domestic parks. The cruises are a real growth area for Disney and I wonder if they are better value for money and also more importantly it's less stressful.
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Post by fiyerorocher on Aug 15, 2024 11:08:19 GMT
Quite excited to find out that there's other Disney Park fans on here (although guess not so surprising)! I thought the majority of the D23 park announcements were pretty positive, they seem to have gone down pretty well even with hardcore fans with some understandable apprehension from people that are suckers for nostalgia and not messing with original areas. Some of my favourite Disney+ content are the programmes that go behind the scenes in the parks and give you a bit of insight. I think the Paris expansions sound exciting to me, one that will certainly make a visit there more appealing. The D23 announcements were excellent! I'm so pleased to see Paris getting some attention as it did desperately need it! The only thing I'm not happy about it losing the Rivers of America for some Cars attractions. Paving over it all is going to take away some of the charm of Magic Kingdom for sure. And I've no interest in Cars, so the replacement just doesn't seem worth what we're losing to me. |
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Post by Jon on Aug 15, 2024 11:11:49 GMT
Quite excited to find out that there's other Disney Park fans on here (although guess not so surprising)! I thought the majority of the D23 park announcements were pretty positive, they seem to have gone down pretty well even with hardcore fans with some understandable apprehension from people that are suckers for nostalgia and not messing with original areas. Some of my favourite Disney+ content are the programmes that go behind the scenes in the parks and give you a bit of insight. I think the Paris expansions sound exciting to me, one that will certainly make a visit there more appealing. The D23 announcements were excellent! I'm so pleased to see Paris getting some attention as it did desperately need it! The only thing I'm not happy about it losing the Rivers of America for some Cars attractions. Paving over it all is going to take away some of the charm of Magic Kingdom for sure. And I've no interest in Cars, so the replacement just doesn't seem worth what we're losing to me. Cars Land at Disney California Adventure has been very successful so putting something similar in WDW makes sense although I think I would put it at EPCOT or Hollywood Studios rather than Magic Kingdom. It does surprise me that Inside Out doesn't have any sort of attraction in any of the parks but I bet that's in the pipeline. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Aug 15, 2024 12:02:31 GMT
The D23 announcements were excellent! I'm so pleased to see Paris getting some attention as it did desperately need it! The only thing I'm not happy about it losing the Rivers of America for some Cars attractions. Paving over it all is going to take away some of the charm of Magic Kingdom for sure. And I've no interest in Cars, so the replacement just doesn't seem worth what we're losing to me. Cars Land at Disney California Adventure has been very successful so putting something similar in WDW makes sense although I think I would put it at EPCOT or Hollywood Studios rather than Magic Kingdom. It does surprise me that Inside Out doesn't have any sort of attraction in any of the parks but I bet that's in the pipeline. I'm sure it will appeal to many guests, but as far as I'm concerned it's not worth losing Rivers of America and the nice kinetic energy that space brings to the park. It's not personally a trade I would make! Pixar Pier does have Inside Out Emotional Whirlwind, but it's not exactly an E ticket attraction. There was some talk of doing something with Journey Into Imagination re: Inside Out, but they're probably worried that if they get rid of Figment, people will riot... |
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Post by Nelly on Aug 15, 2024 12:16:08 GMT
Cars Land at Disney California Adventure has been very successful so putting something similar in WDW makes sense although I think I would put it at EPCOT or Hollywood Studios rather than Magic Kingdom. It does surprise me that Inside Out doesn't have any sort of attraction in any of the parks but I bet that's in the pipeline. I'm sure it will appeal to many guests, but as far as I'm concerned it's not worth losing Rivers of America and the nice kinetic energy that space brings to the park. It's not personally a trade I would make! Pixar Pier does have Inside Out Emotional Whirlwind, but it's not exactly an E ticket attraction. There was some talk of doing something with Journey Into Imagination re: Inside Out, but they're probably worried that if they get rid of Figment, people will riot... I'm very torn as it does feel like a loss but also a little biased as I do have a love for the Cars movies (mainly the first). Getting to experience Cars Land at DCA was pretty special and the Radiator Springs Racers ride was an incredible experience. I can understand though that if you're not a fan of the Cars franchise then getting rid of Rivers of America/Tom Sawyer Island doesn't feel like a great payoff, especially as it's removing water and adding another mountain. Obviously change for change sake isn't always good, but it's nice to see so much attention being given to WDW, DL and DLP all at once.
I do think the Disney Parks team do take on board the hardcore fans feedback so will do this in a tasteful way that still gives people what they want, I get that vibe having watched a few different Disney Park Fan YouTube channels. |
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