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Post by distantcousin on May 16, 2024 14:35:53 GMT
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Post by crowblack on May 16, 2024 14:40:44 GMT
I don't think there was much indication Sweeney Todd was a musical in its marketing - the person I went with, who was expecting a gothic horror like Burton's earlier Sleepy Hollow groaned when he discovered it was!
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Post by distantcousin on May 16, 2024 14:51:18 GMT
I don't think there was much indication Sweeney Todd was a musical in its marketing - the person I went with, who was expecting a gothic horror like Burton's earlier Sleepy Hollow groaned when he discovered it was! This was definitely an early example of this practice. I remember the reaction. Similar story with Dreamgirls and the "book songs" - which due to changes from the stage score, didn't even begin in the film until about a third of the way in (I remember people in the cinema sniggering during "Family" as it was quite a tonal/stylistic shift for people not "desensitised" to it like we theatre-goers) |
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Post by sph on May 16, 2024 15:00:08 GMT
It's possible that Wicked is well-known enough as a musical though that most movie-goers will be fully aware. Maybe they don't want to release too much of the soundtrack too early as they know that's what many are hanging on for?
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Post by theatrefan2007 on May 16, 2024 15:05:55 GMT
In all honesty I really don’t mind musicals being made into films. Obviously nothing beats anything on stage but I like seeing well known musicals being adapted on the big screen (as long it isn’t a big flop).
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Post by Jon on May 16, 2024 15:21:01 GMT
I'm not sure people hate movie musicals otherwise Wonka wouldn't have been a hit, likewise any of the Disney live action remakes.
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Post by alicechallice on May 16, 2024 16:10:00 GMT
I have been surprised how many reacting to the Wicked trailer on YouTube do NOT know it's a musical or even what the show is based on. Can you share an example or two? I love stupid people. |
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Post by mkb on May 16, 2024 17:15:17 GMT
I'm not sure people hate movie musicals otherwise Wonka wouldn't have been a hit, likewise any of the Disney live action remakes. I had no idea Wonka was a musical until the singing started: a pleasant surprise. I do go out of my way to avoid any spoilers, but I'm surprised that didn't permeate. |
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Post by marob on May 16, 2024 18:29:15 GMT
I don’t get why people happily accept films having a musical score or a montage to a song, yet turn their noses up at characters singing.
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Post by Jon on May 16, 2024 23:30:18 GMT
I don’t get why people happily accept films having a musical score or a montage to a song, yet turn their noses up at characters singing. They accept a lot of things in movies like superheroes and giant monsters thrashing each other but people singing is a step too far apparently.... |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 17, 2024 9:48:44 GMT
I don’t get why people happily accept films having a musical score or a montage to a song, yet turn their noses up at characters singing. They accept a lot of things in movies like superheroes and giant monsters thrashing each other but people singing is a step too far apparently.... Although a lot of us dislike superheroes and monsters and yet like film musicals |
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Post by kathryn on May 17, 2024 16:40:46 GMT
I don’t get why people happily accept films having a musical score or a montage to a song, yet turn their noses up at characters singing. People don’t even consciously think about the score most of the time, they are so used to the convention they take it completely for granted. People simply don’t watch enough movie musicals for a singing cast to seem natural to them. They’re perfectly happy when it’s a context in which people do sing - musical biopics, for example. My parents find superhero movies absolutely ridiculous and ‘unrealistic’ - which, of course, they are. But as I always point out to my dad, Hollywood Westerns were unrealistic too - and he loved them. It’s just what you are accustomed to. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 17, 2024 17:48:00 GMT
I know this is a generalisation and one I may be shot down in flames for but straight men especially those between 16 - 35 for some unknown reason think watching musicals is a judgement on their sexuality. I agree. And higher than 35 probably. |
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Post by danb on May 17, 2024 18:28:24 GMT
I know this is a generalisation and one I may be shot down in flames for but straight men especially those between 16 - 35 for some unknown reason think watching musicals is a judgement on their sexuality. I agree. And higher than 35 probably. I think it’s linked as much to emotional intelligence as it is to (sexual) insecurity. Unfortunately, some people are just a bit ignorant & thick on a base level before any other issues get added in! |
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Post by jacob on May 18, 2024 7:19:40 GMT
I know this is a generalisation and one I may be shot down in flames for but straight men especially those between 16 - 35 for some unknown reason think watching musicals is a judgement on their sexuality. I’m not sure how they’ll copy watching this new Joker film then |
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Post by theatrefan62 on May 18, 2024 7:39:14 GMT
In fairness, musicals being a 'gay thing' is a stereotype that's been used and owned for years by the gay community. And still is to this day, even musicals themselves make jokes out of it.
I don't think it's fair to just judge and blame straight people for that. In reality plenty of gay people hate musicals, and many straight people do like them.
Everyone has their thing of what they can and can't buy into. Musicals have to get over the cringe awkward moment of when they start singing, and that can be hard to do. The lack of good modern movie musicals hasn't helped get generations into musicals.
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Post by danb on May 18, 2024 7:48:00 GMT
Exactly. It is really reductive, and I’d expect really offensive to whoever has created that piece of art. Each ‘musical’ is different, so the whole ‘only for gays’ trope is a nonsense. I’m not expecting everyone that enjoyed ‘Grease’ to be a big fan of ‘Fun Home’, no more than I’m expecting the 27,000,000 boyfriends & husbands dragged along to ‘The Greatest Showman’ to have instantly turned. It’s about as lazy a generalisation as Mother-in-Law jokes.
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Post by BVM on May 18, 2024 10:33:58 GMT
I know we've said it a million times but I do think the problem with movie musicals is you are shoe horning one art form into another - and for me personally more often than not it simply doesn't work. I really have yet to be convinced primary stage musicals can make amazing films.
The Cats disaster and the abysmal Les Mis films utterly failed to capture what made them special on stage.
While for me the problem with Les Mis was the diabolical speak singing and the least said about Russell Crowe the better; with Cats I've reflected that any feature film version would probs be awful. It's such an insanely theatrical show that you just cannot recreate that on film.
The massive exception for me is Evita which I thought was a sensational film. And the reason I feel is it remained true to the musical. Casting singers that can SING and putting the music first and centre. Madonna doing Don't Cry For Me Argentina was everywhere at the time; as were other stand out songs from the score. And they even gave the gays a banging club remix of DCFMA which I danced to like a maniac most Fridays and Saturdays in 1997. Zero shame in it being a musical and it worked.
Also liked Chicago. Although they cut songs the staging of the songs was magnificent and the cast were up to the job.
Back to Wicked - yes, it's disappointing to have a trailer for a musical with no singing. But unsurprising.
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Post by BVM on May 18, 2024 10:42:50 GMT
Oh and if the Miss Saigon and Sunset Boulevard films ever get made, dear Lord please let them SING! (And am sorry but to my mind that rules out you know who for the latter).
Moot points I suspect as can't see either project finally seeing the light of day.
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Post by Joseph Buquet on May 18, 2024 15:48:10 GMT
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Post by FairyGodmother on May 20, 2024 9:26:00 GMT
I think people are very happy with them as "children's films", but not so much as ones for adults.
A lot of Disney animated films are basically musicals.
Then you have things like Mary Poppins, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Annie. Oliver! although adult source material and really quite grim is probably watched more by children than adults.
Classics are often fine as well. I know plenty of people who will watch old musical films but wouldn't go to a new one.
I'm not put off by new musicals, but you're more likely to find me watching a classical film musical than a new one. I'll watch Hairspray and Chicago, but one watch of Cats, Phantom and Everybody's Talking About Jamie was enough for me.
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Post by thedrowsychaperone on May 20, 2024 9:51:18 GMT
I've personally found it harder and harder to suspend my disbelief in more recent movie musicals... I'm such a huge Musical-nut and would watch the Little Shop of Horrors and Rocky Horror movie adaptations on repeat growing up, but now when I watch a movie musical made in the last 10/15 years, the second they open their mouth to sing I start to roll my eyes a little.
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Post by Mr Snow on May 20, 2024 10:00:21 GMT
I know we've said it a million times but I do think the problem with movie musicals is you are shoe horning one art form into another - and for me personally more often than not it simply doesn't work. I really have yet to be convinced primary stage musicals can make amazing films. The Cats disaster and the abysmal Les Mis films utterly failed to capture what made them special on stage. While for me the problem with Les Mis was the diabolical speak singing and the least said about Russell Crowe the better; with Cats I've reflected that any feature film version would probs be awful. It's such an insanely theatrical show that you just cannot recreate that on film. The massive exception for me is Evita which I thought was a sensational film. And the reason I feel is it remained true to the musical. Casting singers that can SING and putting the music first and centre. Madonna doing Don't Cry For Me Argentina was everywhere at the time; as were other stand out songs from the score. And they even gave the gays a banging club remix of DCFMA which I danced to like a maniac most Fridays and Saturdays in 1997. Zero shame in it being a musical and it worked. Also liked Chicago. Although they cut songs the staging of the songs was magnificent and the cast were up to the job. Back to Wicked - yes, it's disappointing to have a trailer for a musical with no singing. But unsurprising. Who has said it before? Soon it will be time to celebrate a Century of the movie musical. www.moma.org/collection/works/315769#:~:text=The%20Jazz%20Singer%20is%20widely,ushering%20in%20the%20sound%20revolution. Many films are adaptions of another format, sometimes they work and often they don't. A film has to work on its own terms and to cite a few recent failures as evidence for the view that "it simply doesn't work" is baffling. Besides the title of this does not specify adaptions. They work, or don't both ways. Films that improved on the stage version IMO (of course) include Cabaret Fidler on the Roof West Side Story (original) South Pacific Show Boat etc |
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Post by BVM on May 20, 2024 15:06:52 GMT
People on here have said it before.
Take your point - am aware of the rich history of movie musicals.
I guess I am thinking more of the mega musical era onwards and the difficulty (IMHO) of making decent films out of musicals conceived for the stage in the last 40 or so years!
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Post by kathryn on May 20, 2024 19:50:14 GMT
The film version of Les Mid was both hugely popular and successful and critically-acclaimed.
Hardcore fans of the stage version thought it was ‘abysmal’; most movie-goers did not.
This perhaps should tell you something about why a lot of stage musicals do not translate to the screen. They need to be made as movies, first and foremost, and musicals second.
There have been plenty of successful movie-musicals in the past and there will be more in the future.
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