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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 2, 2016 9:36:46 GMT
Well, we all know how self-righteous and indignant we get when those filthy oiks get their camera's out and start recording at a show don't we? DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR!  But hands up the member who hasn't popped onto YouTube and enjoyed the fruits of someone else's 'bad behaviour at a show'? And we all know bootlegs are in circulation, so who made them? The bootleg fairy? So is it the case that if the offender is recording so secretly that it's not interfering with our enjoyment then that's all fine? And is that just a teeny bit hypocritical? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 9:58:54 GMT
I must admit that I absolutely hate it when I see an audience member recording the show or taking photos as people have paid so much money to see it properly! It's also annoying to just see them texting or checking Twitter!! I must admit, though, that I have watched videos of shows on YouTube. For example, there are loads of videos of just songs from the London production of Legally Blonde and as I never got to see it and it's closed now, watching these videos are so great! Is that bad?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 2, 2016 10:49:03 GMT
I must admit that I absolutely hate it when I see an audience member recording the show or taking photos as people have paid so much money to see it properly! It's also annoying to just see them texting or checking Twitter!! I must admit, though, that I have watched videos of shows on YouTube. For example, there are loads of videos of just songs from the London production of Legally Blonde and as I never got to see it and it's closed now, watching these videos are so great! Is that bad?Yes. Youre killing the the theatre industry George. Single-handedly. Sheridan wouldn't approve either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 11:05:14 GMT
I must admit that I absolutely hate it when I see an audience member recording the show or taking photos as people have paid so much money to see it properly! It's also annoying to just see them texting or checking Twitter!! I must admit, though, that I have watched videos of shows on YouTube. For example, there are loads of videos of just songs from the London production of Legally Blonde and as I never got to see it and it's closed now, watching these videos are so great! Is that bad?Yes. Youre killing the the theatre industry George. Single-handedly. Sheridan wouldn't approve either. But the show is closed now so it's not like I could pay to go and see it, because trust me I'd pay so much to see her in that show again. If it is on YouTube then I can't ignore it? It's not just LB but different shows just have clips of songs, even you said you've seen some. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 2, 2016 11:19:20 GMT
So do you think it's ok for people to secretly record things, so that other people like you and I can watch them on YouTube?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 11:36:17 GMT
So do you think it's ok for people to secretly record things, so that other people like you and I can watch them on YouTube? No of course I don't, I never said that did I? Your being abit hypocritical by having a go at me but saying you do the same? Hmmm, okay then. It's a way of seeing something that was on when I didn't go to the theatre |
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Post by d'James on Jul 2, 2016 11:37:11 GMT
I don't know. I do love videos and audios online. Especially when it's a different cast from the cast recording or something. They should re-record the main songs when new leads join and make them available to download legally in an ideal world.
There are certain shows where there's only a Broadway or London recording and so it can be frustrating not to hear the voices you heard at the Theatre.
I must admit I've been tempted to record the audio at shows before, but I'm not brave enough. I would never video it either as it would be very distracting to those around me.
If I ever did record the audio I would never put it on YouTube and just keep it for personal use.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 12:52:11 GMT
So do you think it's ok for people to secretly record things, so that other people like you and I can watch them on YouTube? I assume you meant xtube |
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Post by horton on Jul 2, 2016 13:12:38 GMT
Perhaps my comments belong in the unpopular thread- and I am certainly conflicted on this.
On the one hand: writers, performers and even producers deserve to be properly remunerated for their work in full, no question.
On the other hand, we have a duty to record the greatest examples of the ephemeral art form as an educational tool- especially in drama schools. I learned so much from watching old recordings of Follies, Pacific Overtures, Evita, Dreamgirls (especially) and these should be passed on to the next generation. There is no question that we have lost a lot of the knowledge from old vaudeville and musical comedy stars and directors (such as Gower Champion or Zero Mostel) and that is a real shame.
Lincoln Centre records a lot of Broadway shows but then it's really difficult to access them.
One more thing: in the past there might be a risk of people watching a bootleg INSTEAD of seeing a show, but in our repeat-watching culture, there is no question that people would watch the bootleg and the real thing, thus contributing to the production costs. As so many producers have now learned, a movie version or local amateur versions of a show actually encourage people to buy tickets to "the real thing".
As I said, I'm conflicted.
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Post by 49thand8th on Jul 2, 2016 14:55:17 GMT
If you're going to record a show (be it audio or video), at least do it without distracting anyone in the theatre.
That's my rule.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 16:07:05 GMT
I can't honestly enjoy a bootleg of a show, watching it being wobbled about on a phone screen* with tinny sound is not the correct medium for theatre to be appreciated. That said, I have googled long dead productions to see out of interest how particular songs have been staged, but not many. * not applicable for XTube though  |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Jul 2, 2016 16:27:36 GMT
I'm quite lucky I guess that I'm a play person and not a musical person, since so many plays end up being broadcast. I am aware of a black market in Shakespeare bootlegs but it doesn't seem to be a thing in the way illicit YT recordings of musicals is.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 2, 2016 17:12:01 GMT
So do you think it's ok for people to secretly record things, so that other people like you and I can watch them on YouTube? No of course I don't, I never said that did I? Your being abit hypocritical by having a go at me but saying you do the same? Hmmm, okay then. It's a way of seeing something that was on when I didn't go to the theatre My dear George I am not having a go at you. I didn't mean you were actually, literally killing British theatre with your bare hands, I was making a funny. Sheesh. |
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Post by viserys on Jul 2, 2016 17:48:22 GMT
I'm not sure what to think about the issue. When I was (much) younger, at the dawn of the internet time when 56k dial-up was very much a thing and youtube not even a theoretical possibility I did own and watch a couple of video bootlegs. I was a teenager/student who poured all her pocket money into seeing musicals live and yet I'd ALSO watched them at home and was glad to "own" them in a way. Often it was a memory of a show I had seen myself, curiosity about performers I couldn't see live or the sheer impossibility to see certain shows, for example when they were on Broadway.
Ironically now that an awful lot is available on youtube, I can't even be bothered to find and watch anything there. I do take advantage (when I can) of seeing NT Live screenings and such at the cinema, own quite a few legal DVDs of shows filmed on stage (like Rent or Memphis on Broadway) and I spent all of this afternoon watching "She Loves me" legally on BroadwayHD for $9.99. It never occured to me to even go looking for a bootleg of this but I was thrilled when it was announced because I'm quite a big fan of Zachary Levi since his "Chuck" days and would have loved to see him in this. But I can't just jet over to New York whenever I feel like it.
Anyway, to come to the point - I see the problem with youtube, since whoever records the show in question illegally makes money from every viewing and that's wrong. Same as "traders" back in the day that would sell copies of their illegal bootlegs.
But I do wonder how much the "industry" suffers from the mere existance. It's my feeling that most people who go looking for bootlegs are hardcore fans who have seen the show live already or simply have no possibility to see it live (and would still do so, when given a chance). Look at Hamilton for example - I was lucky enough to see it live last summer before the hype got totally insane, but I can't blame anyone who loves the CD and can't afford the ludicrous prices on Broadway (especially when you include travel cost) to look for other resources in order to match the music to visuals. Some may be content with a crappy bootleg but I'm sure that most would still buy tickets whenever Hamilton comes to their home town or prices on Broadway become reasonable again.
I really think that the best way to curb the bootlegging would be to offer more shows by streaming such as She Loves Me now, showing them on television like Imelda's Gypsy and/or releasing them on DVD - at least once the actual run has ended and there's no risk of people not buying tickets anymore because they could buy the stream.
I haven't touched any bootlegs for about 20 years now and I don't want to sound like I encourage the practice, but I still have some sympathy for teenage-me for who terrible VHS bootlegs in awful quality were often the only chance to see something at all or to have a treasured keepsake of my favorite shows.
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Post by musicallady on Jul 2, 2016 18:37:10 GMT
If you're going to record a show (be it audio or video), at least do it without distracting anyone in the theatre. That's my rule. I had audio down to a fine art 😏 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 18:40:51 GMT
I don't agree that the people who go looking for bootlegs are hardcore fans who've already paid. Some may be, but I know of quite a few people whose response to something being available is "Where can I get a bootleg?", and many of them are quite proud of themselves for taking without putting anything back. Some try to justify what they're doing by saying they're providing support, though it doesn't seem to occur to them that support doesn't pay the bills and if they're not spending money then in commercial terms they don't exist. Many don't even do that: they simply don't see a reason for paying for anything unless they're forced to.
As far as audience recordings are concerned, I know many performers hate them because they have no say over the quality of the performance. They might be having a bad day or stumble over something, and then a performance they're not proud of gets shared all around the world.
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Post by Jon on Jul 2, 2016 19:09:09 GMT
I don't agree that the people who go looking for bootlegs are hardcore fans who've already paid. Some may be, but I know of quite a few people whose response to something being available is "Where can I get a bootleg?", and many of them are quite proud of themselves for taking without putting anything back. Some try to justify what they're doing by saying they're providing support, though it doesn't seem to occur to them that support doesn't pay the bills and if they're not spending money then in commercial terms they don't exist. Many don't even do that: they simply don't see a reason for paying for anything unless they're forced to. As far as audience recordings are concerned, I know many performers hate them because they have no say over the quality of the performance. They might be having a bad day or stumble over something, and then a performance they're not proud of gets shared all around the world. It's theft as far as I'm concerned. Same with film piracy and illegal TV downloads. If you wand to as something so badly, pay for it |
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 2, 2016 19:12:24 GMT
As far as audience recordings are concerned, I know many performers hate them because they have no say over the quality of the performance. They might be having a bad day or stumble over something, and then a performance they're not proud of gets shared all around the world. Idina Menzel has been quite vocal about how it frustrates her that there is an audio in circulation of a really terrible show she had. She really does sound awful in that clip of Defying Gravity (to the point that I question why she didn't call out that night- she sounded really sick). But I know from my end- it's usually the only way to hear certain actors in certain roles, and I get to see so many shows I wouldn't have if it weren't for boots. I've not been doing it as much recently (just got tired of the poor quality, and find my ways to see theatre live [saving alot of money for travel]) but in the past I found great joy in them, and knew I'd find a way to support the creators some other way. I know some choose to view something for free and not pay for anything at all- I have to wonder what's the percentage of those people are and if they actually make a dent in the theatre world's income. If there was no boot, if they'd pay money to see the production live. |
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 2, 2016 19:16:59 GMT
I don't agree that the people who go looking for bootlegs are hardcore fans who've already paid. Some may be, but I know of quite a few people whose response to something being available is "Where can I get a bootleg?", and many of them are quite proud of themselves for taking without putting anything back. Some try to justify what they're doing by saying they're providing support, though it doesn't seem to occur to them that support doesn't pay the bills and if they're not spending money then in commercial terms they don't exist. Many don't even do that: they simply don't see a reason for paying for anything unless they're forced to. As far as audience recordings are concerned, I know many performers hate them because they have no say over the quality of the performance. They might be having a bad day or stumble over something, and then a performance they're not proud of gets shared all around the world. It's theft as far as I'm concerned. Same with film piracy and illegal TV downloads. If you wand to as something so badly, pay for it But sometimes there is no way to pay for it. I'm not enabling at all- it's illegal, takes away from the artist and sometimes distracts audiences. But I don't think it's the same as TV/ Film where you can pay in most countries to view something legally. Theatre is in one place in one time. sometimes the boot is of a production from 20 years ago. sometimes of a production halfway across the world. I'm in a twist about it myself- I'd be a liar if I said I never searched and viewed bootlegs before. |
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 2, 2016 19:22:44 GMT
Many shows have got my money from seeing clips and recordings on youtube as they have then made me want to see it/the performer and so Ive bought a ticket.
Also i rather doubt i'd be interested in theatre now if it was for those types of videos as there were several years where that's all i relied on rather than actually going to the theatre. It's through seeing clips and such that got me started, not family or friends taking me to see shows from a young age.
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 2, 2016 19:29:33 GMT
Sorry for the multiple posts but I have to add- a lot of shows and actors use illegal footage and photos for press and promotion (including many actors who openly condemn such footage, only to favorite/retweet/ use on their website's reel etc. moments later :/ ). To an embarrassing degree- you'd have to wonder what their real stance on this is, as they do also benefit from it to a certain degree.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 2, 2016 19:32:50 GMT
I gave up Sky TV a couple of weeks ago.... no, it's fine... I'm doing ok *takes slug of gin to stop hand trembling* and as a result of saving that£45 a month was considering subscribing to Netflix again. I had a look to see what they're showing in terms of musicals and it's absolutely dire. If there was a decent resource for this stuff maybe people wouldn't bother with bad quality vids on YouTube.
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jul 2, 2016 19:34:20 GMT
I think that's what BroadwayHD is striving for but their selection isn't great either...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 22:02:18 GMT
I get annoyed if I see it in the theatre whilst im there, but yeah, I watch Bootlegs on YouTube regularly haha! Usually Broadway productions that I may not get to see (there is a now a full Broadway recording from an audience member of the Broadway production of School of Rock I am attempting to hold off watching!). 
But then there is also historical productions that you may not get to see again! There is a full Bootleg video of Bernadette's Gypsy, and there was one of Patti's too, but I can't find it anymore. To name a few! |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 2, 2016 22:44:36 GMT
I don't agree with illegal recordings period, that could distract other audience members.
Then again watching a 'recording' on the internet done illegally or in the cinema done legally never substitutes to being there in the theatre and watching a live performance, I for one do not enjoy watching theatre through media platforms.
In New York as someone said earlier, you can go down to the Lincoln Centre archives and watch nearly every show that has been on Broadway, obviously current Broadway shows aren't available. There is no cost to viewing this and I have used this service many a time. So if they can offer this service, then once a show is done why don't they just stick it on the Internet for everyone to enjoy? Doing this may attract more potential theatre fans. Because you can access something digitally wouldn't put me off from going to the theatre and I would say this would be the same for everyone that goes to the theatre, the experience is very different more satisfactory and unique. To give an example you can visit anywhere on Google Maps and view anything with images, does this stop people visiting cities, such as Paris, Berlin, Sydney or New York? No because visiting a place is a far more rewarding experience than visiting a place via your laptop or tablet, even though there is no real cost involved and you never get wet or suffer sunburn!
If shows are put on the net legally, it would stop the illegal bootlegging instantly.
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