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Post by ladidah on Apr 12, 2024 7:34:22 GMT
Looking forward to the Palladium concert in 10 years Someone needs to put the hoover and red curtain into a time capsule. |
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7,050 posts
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2024 8:09:01 GMT
While I didn't find this show totally unwatchable myself, and again I'm sorry for the loss of jobs with it closing, I don't particularly agree with the defence that at least it was trying something "bold and new/unusual" in the West End, as that does a discredit to the many other bold and new shows in the West End that quite frankly just did "bold and new" a lot better. SO MANY plays and musicals in recent years have been incredibly inventive and unusual in their staging and/or narrative structure, but they just did it better. Saying that the loss of shows like this is a slippery slope to a West End full of jukebox musicals is false. Jukebox musicals continue to come and go. There are still new and exciting works popping up without the clunky dialogue and lyrics and baffling directorial choices of Opening Night. This idea that Opening Night has flopped entirely because people don't "get" inventive or avant garde theatre undermines the fact that there are many regular theatregoers who have seen and enjoyed ALL kinds of theatre who just thought this was badly done. I always think jukebox musicals get a bad rap but there's a reason Mamma Mia! for example has run for 25 years and Opening Night only 10 weeks. Ivo had a huge hit with A Little Life last year and to me I think when he has to restrain his box of tricks, it makes for a better experience. I'm sure he'll be disappointed this hasn't worked out but he will bounce back with his next project which I believe is The Shining. |
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 12, 2024 8:39:29 GMT
While I didn't find this show totally unwatchable myself, and again I'm sorry for the loss of jobs with it closing, I don't particularly agree with the defence that at least it was trying something "bold and new/unusual" in the West End, as that does a discredit to the many other bold and new shows in the West End that quite frankly just did "bold and new" a lot better. SO MANY plays and musicals in recent years have been incredibly inventive and unusual in their staging and/or narrative structure, but they just did it better. Saying that the loss of shows like this is a slippery slope to a West End full of jukebox musicals is false. Jukebox musicals continue to come and go. There are still new and exciting works popping up without the clunky dialogue and lyrics and baffling directorial choices of Opening Night. This idea that Opening Night has flopped entirely because people don't "get" inventive or avant garde theatre undermines the fact that there are many regular theatregoers who have seen and enjoyed ALL kinds of theatre who just thought this was badly done. Couldn’t agree more. You are 💯 right!!! It’s completely underestimates the audience. 🙄 |
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Post by luvvie23 on Apr 12, 2024 8:40:26 GMT
While I didn't find this show totally unwatchable myself, and again I'm sorry for the loss of jobs with it closing, I don't particularly agree with the defence that at least it was trying something "bold and new/unusual" in the West End, as that does a discredit to the many other bold and new shows in the West End that quite frankly just did "bold and new" a lot better. SO MANY plays and musicals in recent years have been incredibly inventive and unusual in their staging and/or narrative structure, but they just did it better. Saying that the loss of shows like this is a slippery slope to a West End full of jukebox musicals is false. Jukebox musicals continue to come and go. There are still new and exciting works popping up without the clunky dialogue and lyrics and baffling directorial choices of Opening Night. This idea that Opening Night has flopped entirely because people don't "get" inventive or avant garde theatre undermines the fact that there are many regular theatregoers who have seen and enjoyed ALL kinds of theatre who just thought this was badly done. Couldn’t agree more. You are 💯 right!!! It’s completely underestimates the audience. 🙄 *It! |
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Post by clarefh on Apr 12, 2024 9:55:33 GMT
[.
Ivo had a huge hit with A Little Life last year and to me I think when he has to restrain his box of tricks, it makes for a better experience. I'm sure he'll be disappointed this hasn't worked out but he will bounce back with his next project which I believe is The Shining.
[/quote]
I actually thought a Little Life shared quite a few of the weaknesses of Opening Night tbh - very poor text/dialogue, not particularly imaginative staging and not much subtlety ( the final scene for example the metaphor was so in your face!). It was lifted by some great performances and a dedicated fan base plus I guess buzz around its ’extreme’ Nature? Opening Night was arguably more ‘innovative’ and lacked narrative clarity but it’s mildly interesting to compare the different fortunes of the two.
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Post by ix on Apr 12, 2024 10:21:52 GMT
While I didn't find this show totally unwatchable myself, and again I'm sorry for the loss of jobs with it closing, I don't particularly agree with the defence that at least it was trying something "bold and new/unusual" in the West End, as that does a discredit to the many other bold and new shows in the West End that quite frankly just did "bold and new" a lot better. SO MANY plays and musicals in recent years have been incredibly inventive and unusual in their staging and/or narrative structure, but they just did it better. Saying that the loss of shows like this is a slippery slope to a West End full of jukebox musicals is false. Jukebox musicals continue to come and go. There are still new and exciting works popping up without the clunky dialogue and lyrics and baffling directorial choices of Opening Night. This idea that Opening Night has flopped entirely because people don't "get" inventive or avant garde theatre undermines the fact that there are many regular theatregoers who have seen and enjoyed ALL kinds of theatre who just thought this was badly done. I always think jukebox musicals get a bad rap but there's a reason Mamma Mia! for example has run for 25 years and Opening Night only 10 weeks. Absolutely. My brow goes high, low and everything inbetween. I thought Our House was an excellent jukebox musical, for what it was. As long as I'm being told an interesting, wellcrafted story and can relate to the characters telling it, I'm good. |
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Post by simon on Apr 12, 2024 10:53:51 GMT
I always think jukebox musicals get a bad rap but there's a reason Mamma Mia! for example has run for 25 years and Opening Night only 10 weeks. Absolutely. My brow goes high, low and everything inbetween. I thought Our House was an excellent jukebox musical, for what it was. As long as I'm being told an interesting, wellcrafted story and can relate to the characters telling it, I'm good. |
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Post by simon on Apr 12, 2024 10:58:47 GMT
Producers and creatives give the impression that they have created something amazing and can't believe the audience reaction.
Some super egos I suspect not used to failure.
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7,050 posts
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2024 11:08:48 GMT
Producers and creatives give the impression that they have created something amazing and can't believe the audience reaction. Some super egos I suspect not used to failure. That's unfair, it's just disappointment that it didn't work out. |
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Post by jr on Apr 12, 2024 11:43:30 GMT
When I read about this project I thought it would be rubbish and I am glad I didn't spend a penny on it. Not happy for the company but probably the egos of Mr van Hove and Mr Wainwright have got a bit of a shake (or then, they might be too big to even notice this massive flop). As for Sheridan Smith , I tried to see her once in Funny girl but she was missing performances then and did not feel like trying to see her again; I can see she is vey popular here in the UK but not sure she is my type of performer.
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5,139 posts
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 12, 2024 12:00:03 GMT
Producers and creatives give the impression that they have created something amazing and can't believe the audience reaction. Some super egos I suspect not used to failure. That's unfair, it's just disappointment that it didn't work out. Exactly, Van Hove has made plenty of polarising stuff in the past (still haven't forgiven him for Obsession) and Wainright knows his music isn't for everyone - to say they have super egos not used to failure is absolute nonsense. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 12, 2024 13:48:11 GMT
Producers and creatives give the impression that they have created something amazing and can't believe the audience reaction. Some super egos I suspect not used to failure. That's unfair, it's just disappointment that it didn't work out. It’s more than that- it’s a disaster however they choose to spin it and portion blame anywhere else but with those who created it. |
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2024 14:06:40 GMT
That's unfair, it's just disappointment that it didn't work out. It’s more than that- it’s a disaster however they choose to spin it and portion blame anywhere else but with those who created it. It's good manners not to finger point publicly, we saw what happened with Cinderella and ALW when it was closing. |
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Post by ix on Apr 12, 2024 14:31:32 GMT
It’s more than that- it’s a disaster however they choose to spin it and portion blame anywhere else but with those who created it. It's good manners not to finger point publicly, we saw what happened with Cinderella and ALW when it was closing. Well, yes, but it's also bad manners for the producers to fingerpoint at just about everything but the cause – poor concept and direction. I don't appreciate being labelled a 'hater' by their social media team just because I saw and disliked an incoherent mess (in my opinion). Nobody ever takes ownership of problems any more and a bit of introspection from them wouldn't go amiss. |
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2024 15:18:29 GMT
It's good manners not to finger point publicly, we saw what happened with Cinderella and ALW when it was closing. Well, yes, but it's also bad manners for the producers to fingerpoint at just about everything but the cause – poor concept and direction. I don't appreciate being labelled a 'hater' by their social media team just because I saw and disliked an incoherent mess (in my opinion). Nobody ever takes ownership of problems any more and a bit of introspection from them wouldn't go amiss. But if you're a producer who would like to work with the likes of Ivo van Hove again, you're not going to slag him or the other creatives in off the press release. |
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Post by normasturban on Apr 12, 2024 15:25:16 GMT
Yes some of you have crazy expectations of how people in the industry behave.
This long list of seasoned producers are not going to throw their hands up and say “It was a load of old **** tbh” and point fingers at the creatives.
Sure it might be true but that’s not how people act.
This show’s problem, as is the cast with a lot of shows these days, was racing to West End/Broadway without adequate workshopping or try outs on the basis of the pedigree involved.
And no matter the pedigree, every show needs tweaked. By the time this opened up and they saw the response, it’s too late for a huge overhaul.
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Post by ix on Apr 12, 2024 15:27:47 GMT
Well, yes, but it's also bad manners for the producers to fingerpoint at just about everything but the cause – poor concept and direction. I don't appreciate being labelled a 'hater' by their social media team just because I saw and disliked an incoherent mess (in my opinion). Nobody ever takes ownership of problems any more and a bit of introspection from them wouldn't go amiss. But if you're a producer who would like to work with the likes of Ivo van Hove again, you're not going to slag him or the other creatives in off the press release. Equally true. But the press release was a little too shiny. |
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2024 15:42:56 GMT
Yes some of you have crazy expectations of how people in the industry behave. This long list of seasoned producers are not going to throw their hands up and say “It was a load of old **** tbh” and point fingers at the creatives. Sure it might be true but that’s not how people act. This show’s problem, as is the cast with a lot of shows these days, was racing to West End/Broadway without adequate workshopping or try outs on the basis of the pedigree involved. And no matter the pedigree, every show needs tweaked. By the time this opened up and they saw the response, it’s too late for a huge overhaul. I think the producers were a bit too eager with Ivo again after the success of A Little Life and Sheridan is a big name who had a big hit last year with Shirley so thought the two together would be a winning combination. It didn't work this time and there is lessons to be learnt but theatre producing is a risk and sometimes you need the duds to learn from those mistakes. |
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Post by danb on Apr 12, 2024 15:44:48 GMT
As an idea it sounded pretty nuts; the combo of star & their audience vs composer, writer & director being about as left of populist as the W/E can get away with. Bravo to those who believed in it and invested, but I can’t believe than anyone is surprised. Just because Sunset was a massive success doing (only roughly) the same kind of thing did they really think that the Channel 5 equivalent would fly? It gives me hope that populist theatre investors are willing to do something different, but fear that they won’t do again for a very long time.
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5,795 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 12, 2024 17:46:40 GMT
I don’t get why they have to say anything at all quite honestly.
It’s not going to sell any more tickets to elaborate on it closing.
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1,379 posts
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Post by BVM on Apr 12, 2024 17:58:19 GMT
It’s more than that- it’s a disaster however they choose to spin it and portion blame anywhere else but with those who created it. It's good manners not to finger point publicly, we saw what happened with Cinderella and ALW when it was closing. To be fair to ALW he didn’t blame any of the shows creatives at Cinderella’s closing. (In fact he kept them all for Broadway). He was pretty vocal about the government and the coronavirus, but never the creatives. Or, during closing, the cast. Despite the field day some of them were having on social media! |
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Post by greatauntedna on Apr 12, 2024 22:14:29 GMT
I saw it a third time this evening in the second row of the stalls. I saw the first preview in the Grand Circle (2.5 stars) and the first show after press night in the Dress Circle (3 stars). I really loved it this time!
I think so much gets missed in the circles. It felt more like a black comedy this time. There are some scenes where it’s so fluid going between the play and reality, and it’s hard to tell at a distance. And the show feels much more static and mechanical.
It’s not perfect. The director’s rally the troops song this time initially felt like he was taking the piss but then it’s obviously earnest. The tone is just a bit off. The producer’s song feels too grand for the play they’re putting on. But when it’s good, it’s really good, which is most of the time!
Everyone seemed more relaxed. Benjamin Walker was a bit of a revelation this time! He improvised in the first corridor scene and a lot in the final scene. The cast were giggling in the wings. And then someone’s phone went off and it kept ringing, and later he said “yeah like when your phone rings, the answer is to answer it!” etc.
4.5 stars!
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Post by Seriously on Apr 12, 2024 23:32:26 GMT
It's good manners not to finger point publicly, we saw what happened with Cinderella and ALW when it was closing. To be fair to ALW he didn’t blame any of the shows creatives at Cinderella’s closing. (In fact he kept them all for Broadway). He was pretty vocal about the government and the coronavirus, but never the creatives. Or, during closing, the cast. Despite the field day some of them were having on social media! Telling the cast to remember that they're just part of the "service industry" wasn't his finest moment. |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Apr 13, 2024 7:55:26 GMT
To be fair to ALW he didn’t blame any of the shows creatives at Cinderella’s closing. (In fact he kept them all for Broadway). He was pretty vocal about the government and the coronavirus, but never the creatives. Or, during closing, the cast. Despite the field day some of them were having on social media! Telling the cast to remember that they're just part of the "service industry" wasn't his finest moment. Neither was their reaction. They really showed how little they thought of people in the service industry. And ALW wasn't actually wrong when it comes to how the conduct themselves and speak to people who are coming to see the show. The audience are their customers. |
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Post by ix on Apr 13, 2024 9:37:56 GMT
To be fair to ALW he didn’t blame any of the shows creatives at Cinderella’s closing. (In fact he kept them all for Broadway). He was pretty vocal about the government and the coronavirus, but never the creatives. Or, during closing, the cast. Despite the field day some of them were having on social media! Telling the cast to remember that they're just part of the "service industry" wasn't his finest moment. In fairness to ALW, what he claimed he said (from a later radio interview) was: “What I was saying to everybody is... the younger cast don’t really realise all the time that we are actually a service industry and nobody has a right to be on the stage. I don’t have a right to have my musicals in the theatre. What we have to do is try to give the best performances possible. All I was saying is that that’s what we have to do and the cast we’ve got at Cinderella are a really, really wonderful cast who are well capable of doing that. But this has been wildly exaggerated.”Which I absolutely agree with. i'm a creative too, but I provide a service that people can choose to use or not to use. I'm no more important to society than a refuse collector or fast-food worker. And even arguably less so. |
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